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7 minutes ago, happycamper said:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/federal-eye/wp/2014/10/07/a-brief-history-of-quarantines-in-the-united-states/ LOL literally during Washington's first term

that's how models work, bob. 

No, that isn't accurate. Your superiors doing something wrong is not cover for you to do it wrong. There's a pretty famous precedent for this. 

No, it isn't. We pretty firmly established that about 75 years ago. 

Taking out Pat because even @Bob and @modestobulldog don't need to be lumped in with that scum.  They are just sheep line in Jonestown but Pat is more like the leader.

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23 minutes ago, sactowndog said:

It's not wartime as was pointed out by the Captain.   

And before claiming is was TDS, let me just state that in wartime our armed forces put themselves in life risking situations.  They don't need their risk compounded by incompetent or amoral leaders.  I didn't vote for Hilary partly because Bengazi proved she was incompetent to be Commander in Chief.   This situation proves Trump is too amoral.  

Nevertheless, thank you for proving my point, along with the others on Team Trump, that Trump can take no action for which you all won't rationalize in some manner or another.   

Please heed you own advice, give the Trump / Trump supporter bashing a rest.

So do we do the same with every ship with infection?

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3 minutes ago, modestobulldog said:

No sh_t Sherlock.  I guess in conflict, we can just hang the white flag.

@modestobulldog quit rationalizing everything and just admit that no matter what Trump does you are okay with it.   We will all just accept it and move on.

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13 minutes ago, happycamper said:

Wait, are you telling me that PAT ROBERTSON never pleases his wife!?!?!?

I don't have inside info, but he probably is tops on missionary....

  • Haha 4

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7 minutes ago, sactowndog said:

@modestobulldog quit rationalizing everything and just admit that no matter what Trump does you are okay with it.   We will all just accept it and move on.

I am working, don't have time to research.  Did Trump fire / remove the captain? What was protocol?  If he disagreed, was there another option within protocol?  Could / did he go one step above?  I am not a fan of reducing readiness of a deployed ship, certainly not disclosing that. 

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7 minutes ago, modestobulldog said:

Please heed you own advice, give the Trump / Trump supporter bashing a rest.

So do we do the same with every ship with infection?

To answer your questions,

1) I waited to see if any of you would condemn him.  Soupslam was pretty involved in this thread right up to the point it became clear this originated with Trump.  Quite frankly, supporting any leader regardless of his actions and constantly making excuses for him is well within the bounds of comment and condemnation.  The lack of comment and condemnation earlier on in Germany is what led to Hitler continuing on his path.  

2) Yes because having a ship out to sea with thousands of sailors on board with no access to ventilators will for sure have a high casualty rate.  We have invested too much in many of these sailors and officers to needless throw their lives away.  Not to mention the morality of it.   

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1 minute ago, modestobulldog said:

I am working, don't have time to research.  Did Trump fire / remove the captain? What was protocol?  If he disagreed, was there another option within protocol?  Could / did he go one step above?  I am not a fan of reducing readiness of a deployed ship, certainly not disclosing that. 

I see you are about as swampped as I am.   LOL   Glad you are working.

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3 hours ago, sactowndog said:

"The Acting Secretary of the Navy Thomas Modly blasted the now ousted commander of the USS Theodore Roosevelt as "stupid" in an address to the ship's crew Monday morning, in remarks obtained by CNN.

Modly told the crew that their former commander, Capt. Brett Crozier, was either "too naive or too stupid" to be in command or that he intentionally leaked to the media a memo in which he warned about coronavirus spreading aboard the aircraft carrier and urged action to save his sailors.
While Modly has publicly refrained from accusing Crozier of leaking the letter to the media in his address to the ship's crew, the acting secretary accused Crozier of committing a "betrayal" and creating a "big controversy" in Washington by disseminating the warning so widely.
"It was a betrayal. And I can tell you one other thing: because he did that he put it in the public's forum and it is now a big controversy in Washington, DC," Modly said, according to a transcript of remarks Modly made to the crew, copies of which have been provided to CNN by multiple Navy officials."
 
Trumps team no all in on attacking Captain Crozier.  And now that we know it comes from the top of the Trump administration we hear crickets about this topic from the usual team Trumpers: @modestobulldog @soupslam @CPslograd @Bob @Nevada Convert
 
Proving once again their is no bridge too far for this crew in supporting their fearless leader. 

Now what are you crying about?  I haven’t paid that much attention to this story. It’s obvious the TDS clan looks at every story for ways to exploit it to trash Trump. So I’m not surprised you know it. 

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8 minutes ago, modestobulldog said:

I am working, don't have time to research.  Did Trump fire / remove the captain? What was protocol?  If he disagreed, was there another option within protocol?  Could / did he go one step above?  I am not a fan of reducing readiness of a deployed ship, certainly not disclosing that. 

We had a whole thread on it. Its still on the first page. Have yourself a read.

 

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4 minutes ago, sactowndog said:

To answer your questions,

1) I waited to see if any of you would condemn him.  Soupslam was pretty involved in this thread right up to the point it became clear this originated with Trump.  Quite frankly, supporting any leader regardless of his actions and constantly making excuses for him is well within the bounds of comment and condemnation.  The lack of comment and condemnation earlier on in Germany is what led to Hitler continuing on his path.  

2) Yes because having a ship out to sea with thousands of sailors on board with no access to ventilators will for sure have a high casualty rate.  We have invested too much in many of these sailors and officers to needless throw their lives away.  Not to mention the morality of it.   

1) Hitler argument, I'll pass.

2) Do we know what the orders were?  Until I know what the plan was related to the ship infection, I don't want to comment.

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1 minute ago, Nevada Convert said:

Now what are you crying about?  I haven’t paid that much attention to this story. It’s obvious the TDS clan looks at every story for ways to exploit it to trash Trump. So I’m not surprised you know it. 

No but you were all over Benghazi weren't you.   Not sure why I even added you to this thread Convert.  With others their is some hope, however faint, that Trump could do something that might one day reach their level of condemnation.   

With you hope has long since left the building.  

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I wonder what captain Crozier's reaction would be to someone under him going outside the chain of command?  My guess.....not a promotion.

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Just now, BYUcougfan said:

I wonder what captain Crozier's reaction would be to someone under him going outside the chain of command?  My guess.....not a promotion.

Yeah here comes the Trump clan now piling on Crozier because Trump said to.   @soupslam where are you, it's your turn now.   

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9 minutes ago, modestobulldog said:

1) Hitler argument, I'll pass.

2) Do we know what the orders were?  Until I know what the plan was related to the ship infection, I don't want to comment.

Dude I am not comparing anyone to Hitler.  I am comparing German society to American society. 

Have you ever been to Germany?  They have changed some but they tend to have a strict obedience to the rules.  Our willingness and ability to criticize our leaders and those who blindly follow them is what keeps us from becoming like Germany.  That criticism is fair whether it's Hilary's inept response on Benghazi or Trumps immoral response on the Teddy Roosevelt.  

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6 minutes ago, BYUcougfan said:

I wonder what captain Crozier's reaction would be to someone under him going outside the chain of command?  My guess.....not a promotion.

 

3 minutes ago, sactowndog said:

Yeah here comes the Trump clan now piling on Crozier because Trump said to.   @soupslam where are you, it's your turn now.   

Pointing out that Crozier likely would not welcome folks in his command going outside the chain of command is pro Trump?  This guy was not the captain of the Pacific Princess.  He was in command of a nuclear powered aircraft carrier.  The one aircraft carrier forward deployed in the Pacific.  He announced to the whole world it was having problems.  Regardless of Trump, what Crozier did was bad.  It might have been for noble reasons, but he still should not have done it.  

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7 minutes ago, BYUcougfan said:

 

Pointing out that Crozier likely would not welcome folks in his command going outside the chain of command is pro Trump?  This guy was not the captain of the Pacific Princess.  He was in command of a nuclear powered aircraft carrier.  The one aircraft carrier forward deployed in the Pacific.  He announced to the whole world it was having problems.  Regardless of Trump, what Crozier did was bad.  It might have been for noble reasons, but he still should not have done it.  

I have not had a class in military ethics so I say this without certainty and I will defer to @sean327 to correct me.  But I believe if you receive an order that causes you to put the lives under your command under reckless endangerment you would be expected to disobey that order.  But given it is the military I am not certain if and how far that extends.  I will be interested in his answer.

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1 minute ago, sactowndog said:

I have not had a class in military ethics so I say this without certainty and I will defer to @sean327 to correct me.  But I believe if you receive an order that causes you to put the lives under your command under reckless endangerment you would be expected to disobey that order.  But given it is the military I am not certain if and how far that extends.  I will be interested in his answer.

Let's assume you are right.  The crew was not facing reckless endangerment.  I read that not even one of the crew required hospitalization.  Certainly things were not going in a good direction with the number of infections on the ship.  There seems to be a huge assumption all around that the Navy planned to park the Roosevelt off the coast somewhere and let some version of the Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner play out.

 

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