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Coronavirus Politics

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1 hour ago, sactowndog said:

Yeah if the data is true than lower risk people are better off catching it assuming they can separate from higher risk people while infected.  

Sweden attempted to separate their older and more vulnerable population by having them quarantine while everyone else would carry on almost as normal with some minor prohibitions, such as banning major crowd gatherings at events.

What will be most interesting to see is if they’ve truly achieved herd immunity that keeps their people largely healthy during a second wave. The world needed an A/B test and Sweden was bold enough to do us all a favor. 

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9 hours ago, BSUTOP25 said:

Looks like Sweden’s gamble is going to pay off — people are not catching COVID twice:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/scientists-conclude-people-cannot-get-coronavirus-twice/ar-BB13tm64

Not according to the WHO

In an update to its guidance, the WHO warned there was "no evidence that people who have recovered from COVID-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second infection".

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8 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

Not according to the WHO

In an update to its guidance, the WHO warned there was "no evidence that people who have recovered from COVID-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second infection".

We won’t know the final results until later this fall — but if Sweden is right, they’re going to come out of this in very good shape both from an overall health standpoint as well as economic.

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11 hours ago, BSUTOP25 said:

Sweden attempted to separate their older and more vulnerable population by having them quarantine while everyone else would carry on almost as normal with some minor prohibitions, such as banning major crowd gatherings at events.

What will be most interesting to see is if they’ve truly achieved herd immunity that keeps their people largely healthy during a second wave. The world needed an A/B test and Sweden was bold enough to do us all a favor. 

Yep will be interesting.  We know it’s mutating but how much and how fast is a question.  

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21 hours ago, BSUTOP25 said:

Looks like Sweden’s gamble is going to pay off — people are not catching COVID twice:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/scientists-conclude-people-cannot-get-coronavirus-twice/ar-BB13tm64

Sweden has 3 1/2 times the deaths per capita as Denmark, which is relaxing restrictions and not experiencing a boom. Sweden is looking to infect its whole populace and is likely less than a quarter of the way there.

We don't know if their gamble paid off, but smart money would bet that Sweden handled it worse than every other Nordic country.

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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1 minute ago, happycamper said:

Sweden has 3 1/2 times the deaths per capita as Denmark, which is relaxing restrictions and not experiencing a boom. Sweden is looking to infect its whole populace and is likely less than a quarter of the way there.

We don't know if their gamble paid off, but smart money would bet that Sweden handled it worse than every other Nordic country.

They went into this knowing they were going to have more infections and deaths. What they’re gambling on is long-term herd immunity. As I mentioned later, we will know by late fall if the strategy worked. 

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Just now, BSUTOP25 said:

They went into this knowing they were going to have more infections and deaths. What they’re gambling on is long-term herd immunity. As I mentioned later, we will know by late fall if the strategy worked. 

Lol herd immunity works for everything if you're willing to let tens of thousands die. It's like Sweden watched Midsomar and said "I mean it's our heritage why not"

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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16 minutes ago, happycamper said:

Lol herd immunity works for everything if you're willing to let tens of thousands die. It's like Sweden watched Midsomar and said "I mean it's our heritage why not"

Come on, people are not dying there in heaps. We should all be hoping they’re right with this strategy rather than trying to play some gotcha or I told you so game. If they are right, it will be a far better model moving forward with selective quarantines rather than blanket ones.

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6 minutes ago, BSUTOP25 said:

Come on, people are not dying there in heaps. We should all be hoping they’re right with this strategy rather than trying to play some gotcha or I told you so game. If they are right, it will be a far better model moving forward with selective quarantines rather than blanket ones.

You writing this with the inherent assumption that there is going to be a universally agreed upon "right" end is absolutely laughable as well as intellectually dishonest. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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32 minutes ago, happycamper said:

Lol herd immunity works for everything if you're willing to let tens of thousands die. It's like Sweden watched Midsomar and said "I mean it's our heritage why not"

The number of total infections over an extended time period changes very little with extreme mitigation, unless there is a vaccine far sooner than expected.

The goal of bending the curve was never to dramatically lower overall infections.

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23 minutes ago, happycamper said:

You writing this with the inherent assumption that there is going to be a universally agreed upon "right" end is absolutely laughable as well as intellectually dishonest. 

By the October/December time frame, if Sweden’s infection and death rates are lower per capita than surrounding countries, the strategy will have paid off. 

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Just now, BSUTOP25 said:

By the October/December time frame, if Sweden’s infection and death rates are lower per capita than surrounding countries, the strategy will have paid off. 

I absolutely agree. I'd say if something totally unexpected happened between December and mass vaccinations that would change the calculus, but I don't foresee that happening. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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11 minutes ago, happycamper said:

I absolutely agree. I'd say if something totally unexpected happened between December and mass vaccinations that would change the calculus, but I don't foresee that happening. 

It’s what Sweden’s health minister is banking his career and legacy on. I won’t lie, I want him to be right. Not because of politics or pride, but simply because it shows the body has the ability to adapt and fight this disease provided the carrier doesn’t have underlying health conditions. 

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33 minutes ago, BSUTOP25 said:

By the October/December time frame, if Sweden’s infection and death rates are lower per capita than surrounding countries, the strategy will have paid off. 

I'd say that if Sweden experiences an overall lower death rate by next August, then maybe you can argue their's was the better strategy.

Need to take the whole timeline into account and also see how much longer term economic damage is suffered.

 

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37 minutes ago, renoskier said:

I'd say that if Sweden experiences an overall lower death rate by next August, then maybe you can argue their's was the better strategy.

Need to take the whole timeline into account and also see how much longer term economic damage is suffered.

 

That’s exactly what I’m saying. But the predicted second wave is supposed to hit by October/December ... right? Or do I have that wrong?

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15 minutes ago, BSUTOP25 said:

That’s exactly what I’m saying. But the predicted second wave is supposed to hit by October/December ... right? Or do I have that wrong?

I'm saying we won't be able to compare different responses until ~ August 2021. Just way too many unknowns at this time to speculate.

From several of your posts, you seem wedded to the idea that Sweden's approach is better than ours. Why do you want that to be the case?

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1 minute ago, renoskier said:

I'm saying we won't be able to compare different responses until ~ August 2021. Just way too many unknowns at this time to speculate.

From several of your posts, you seem wedded to the idea that Sweden's approach is better than ours. Why do you want that to be the case?

Okay, I see your point re time frame. I was looking at it from the standpoint that we should have more tests and data sharing systems by the end of the year so we could observe the number of new infections and fatalities as they’re logged. 

I simply want Sweden’s approach to be the right one because it would demonstrate that herd immunity is effective for the healthier bell curve of the population - that the body can adapt and create antibodies that are effective at fighting and preventing recurrence. I would think everyone would want that to be the case...? It would be good news for all of us in the long-term.

Look, I’m not cheering this from a teams and shit angle. I am simply hopeful that there is a natural response from the body. If that’s the case, we can design policies and procedures that protect the most vulnerable (elderly, obese, immune compromised, etc.) while making sure the bulk of society keeps the lights on. All the while, continue to work on effective treatment therapies and hopefully come up with a vaccine that can be adapted to mutations. 

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2 hours ago, BSUTOP25 said:

By the October/December time frame, if Sweden’s infection and death rates are lower per capita than surrounding countries, the strategy will have paid off. 

The only thing is you also have to model/interpret the differences in countries and cultural behavior.

This article this morning did a good job of laying out some of the differences between Sweden and the US. Just one excerpt:

Quote

Sweden is a country of willfully compliant citizens, home of a so-called "consensus culture." It's a place that's birthed some of the world's safest cars, and most inoffensive furniture. Nearly everyone pays their taxes without prodding, despite the record high rates

"People trust the government," American archaeologist and Scandinavian art history professor Nancy Wicker, who's traveled frequently back and forth between Sweden and the US for nearly four decades, told Business Insider. "It's definitely part of the culture to follow the rules, or guidelines, and to not be too pushy about it."

The Swedish prerogative asks citizens to act like adults, and then trusts that, left to their own devices, people will. The Swedish even have a word for this, folkvett. It translates, roughly, to "good manners," but really means much more, expecting that Swedish people will act appropriately and do the right thing, without being told, or if not, face severe public shame and moral judgement.

https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-coronavirus-strategy-explained-culture-of-trust-and-obedience-2020-4

If Americans had more of the Swedish behavior and government support network mentioned then it would be a close analysis. But otherwise you have to do some massaging of the differences in the comparisons to see if it would worked here.

 

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Just now, FresnoFacts said:

The only thing is you also have to model/interpret the differences in countries and cultural behavior.

This article this morning did a good job of laying out some of the differences between Sweden and the US. Just one excerpt:

If Americans had more of the Swedish behavior and government support network mentioned then it would be a close analysis. But otherwise you have to do some massaging of the differences in the comparisons to see if it would worked here.

 

I guess I’m just looking at it as an a hope that the body is able to produce antibodies and immunity — and a way to navigate the delicate balance of societal health and economic resilience. If this Swedish gamble pays off, we can look at it as a win for everyone. If Sweden is successful, I wouldn’t come back to this thread and do a doucher move like posting “Ha, I told you so.” 

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