Corona Virus - How bad is it going to be?

[NVGiant]

14 minutes ago, HR_Poke said:

Nevermind HR. Misread your initial reply.

[HR_Poke]

2 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

Don't feel sorry for myself. Just find it quaint that after 12 years of nonstop change elections, that anyone would think that the next election will fix anything. My original point was that a lack of common sense is hardly the sole domain of the politicians.

No it probably won't change anything drastically one way or the other, I wasn't mocking you, just wanted to do a team america gif as we were talking about it at work and I couldn't find some of the more inappropriate ones like the BJ pact or 9/11 * 1000.  Polis has flipped on a lot of his covid positions since Thanksgiving simply because he has to win independents in 2022 as they make up more than a third of the electorate here.  It's not because of common sense or lack there of.  Just playing the game as they all do.  He's done some alright things and made some boneheaded decisions just like a lot of them have.  Mandating health care workers get vaccinated when all the hospitals were short staffed was a little short sighted.  I get why he did it, but when Parker hospital has to now turn away cardiac patients because they are short of clinical staff, maybe we should have allowed more exemptions?

[NVGiant]

8 minutes ago, HR_Poke said:

No it probably won't change anything drastically one way or the other, I wasn't mocking you, just wanted to do a team america gif as we were talking about it at work and I couldn't find some of the more inappropriate ones like the BJ pact or 9/11 * 1000.  Polis has flipped on a lot of his covid positions since Thanksgiving simply because he has to win independents in 2022 as they make up more than a third of the electorate here.  It's not because of common sense or lack there of.  Just playing the game as they all do.  He's done some alright things and made some boneheaded decisions just like a lot of them have.  Mandating health care workers get vaccinated when all the hospitals were short staffed was a little short sighted.  I get why he did it, but when Parker hospital has to now turn away cardiac patients because they are short of clinical staff, maybe we should have allowed more exemptions?

I don't know man. I read this and think, well, short staff wasn't the reason they were overrun. They were overrun because people refused to take a vaccine. Staffing exasperated the problem, sure, but the unvaccinated made a choice that led to the overrunning the hospitals and we should put the blame in its proper place. Hell, short staffing in health care has a whole host of causes in addition to the dismissal of the unvaxxed, including severe burnout and early retirements — a trend made worse by ignorant toads refusing safe, effective vaccines that at the very least keep people out of the hospitals.

[HR_Poke]

1 minute ago, NVGiant said:

I don't know man. I read this and think, well, short staff wasn't the reason they were overrun. They were overrun because people refused to take a vaccine. Staffing exasperated the problem, sure, but the unvaccinated made a choice that led to the overrunning the hospitals and we should put the blame in its proper place. Hell, short staffing in health care has a whole host of causes in addition to the dismissal of the unvaxxed, including severe burnout and early retirements — a trend made worse by ignorant toads refusing safe, effective vaccines that at the very least keep people out of the hospitals.

Sure, but when the kitchens on fire you don't throw grease on it because it's wet is all I'm saying.  Having hospitals terminate staff when they are already short staffed and in a surge seems like a very bad idea for everyone not just the unvaxed. 

[NVGiant]

Just now, HR_Poke said:

Sure, but when the kitchens on fire you don't throw grease on it because it's wet is all I'm saying.  Having hospitals terminate staff when they are already short staffed and in a surge seems like a very bad idea for everyone not just the unvaxed. 

Perhaps. But throwing out arsonists when you are trying to put out the kitchen fire makes some sense, too. No easy answers when common sense and pragmatism are in such short supply.

[East Coast Aztec]

1 minute ago, HR_Poke said:

Sure, but when the kitchens on fire you don't throw grease on it because it's wet is all I'm saying.  Having hospitals terminate staff when they are already short staffed and in a surge seems like a very bad idea for everyone not just the unvaxed. 

I wonder if hospital admin ran costs for potential lawsuits and increased insurance as a major factor, because on its face you are correct in the impact of letting folks go.   They could have had a COVID ward if they needed and all unvaxed staff, admin, and patients would go there.  

[HR_Poke]

19 minutes ago, East Coast Aztec said:

I wonder if hospital admin ran costs for potential lawsuits and increased insurance as a major factor, because on its face you are correct in the impact of letting folks go.   They could have had a COVID ward if they needed and all unvaxed staff, admin, and patients would go there.  

Not sure it's that big of a hospital to have a dedicated ward for just covid patients.

 

Side note I talked with my old neighbor over thanksgiving.  She's an RN at the Cheyenne hospital.  She said their admin furloughed a lot of the nursing staff in 2020 because they got federal funds to cover the cost of traveling covid nurses.  She said the hospital started using all those paid for nurses to do non covid stuff just so they could furlough existing staff.  Pretty phucked up in my opinion. 

[HR_Poke]

10 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

Perhaps. But throwing out arsonists when you are trying to put out the kitchen fire makes some sense, too. No easy answers when common sense and pragmatism are in such short supply.

To a point. Just feels like stubbornness and spite on both parties and the ones losing had nothing to do with it

[happycamper]

 

57 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

We don't believe in those anymore.

national level democrats seem to be trying to prove that elections are useless as hard as possible don't they

[NVGiant]

6 minutes ago, HR_Poke said:

To a point. Just feels like stubbornness and spite on both parties and the ones losing had nothing to do with it

I hate to say stuff like this. But perhaps the answer really is to prioritize the cardiac patient over the unvaccinated Covid patient when hospitals are overrun? Ration care to the willfully unvaccinated in field hospitals so we can prioritize patients who have nothing do with it. Such a repugnant idea on its face, though.

[HR_Poke]

1 minute ago, NVGiant said:

I hate to say stuff like this. But perhaps the answer really is to prioritize the cardiac patient over the unvaccinated Covid patient? Ration care to the willfully unvaccinated in field hospitals so we can prioritize patients who have nothing do with it. Such a repugnant idea on its face. 

I don't know that you can legally do it though.  And I don't know that doctors, and nurses can ethically do it either. 

[NVGiant]

7 minutes ago, HR_Poke said:

I don't know that you can legally do it though.  And I don't know that doctors, and nurses can ethically do it either. 

I have no idea. But if we're already rationing care to cardiac patients so that we can take care of unvaccinated Covid patients, as you said, then I don't know if it is less ethical to change those priorities to make sure that cardiac patient is taken care of first. But I'm not a doctor or lawyer.

[Orygun]

12 minutes ago, happycamper said:

 

national level democrats seem to be trying to prove that elections are useless as hard as possible don't they

I mean, when one entire political party is hellbent on creating a dictatorship, what choice did democrats have?

[HR_Poke]

1 minute ago, NVGiant said:

I have no idea. But if we're already rationing care to cardiac patients so that we can take care of unvaccinated Covid patients, as you said, then I don't know if it is less ethical to change those priorities to make sure that cardiac patient is taken care of ahead of those who made that choice. But I'm not a doctor or lawyer.

I'm not either,  an EMT and we had several lessons on legal liability and negligence but nothing near what doctors and lawyers do.  We were allowed to triage and ration care based on who was likely to survive.  But we couldn't neglect a patient just because they were drunk and caused a traffic accident while driving. 

[happycamper]

6 minutes ago, Orygun said:

I mean, when one entire political party is hellbent on creating a dictatorship, what choice did democrats have?

not the thrust of my post. democrats begged and begged for votes, got them, did not a lot

[NVGiant]

4 minutes ago, HR_Poke said:

I'm not either,  an EMT and we had several lessons on legal liability and negligence but nothing near what doctors and lawyers do.  We were allowed to triage and ration care based on who was likely to survive.  But we couldn't neglect a patient just because they were drunk and caused a traffic accident while driving. 

Bear in mind, I would never advocate doing something like this as a matter of course. Only in emergency situations when hospitals are overrun. And even then, I'm not really advocating for it in emergency situations. Just going through a thought exercise.

[soupslam1]

33 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

I hate to say stuff like this. But perhaps the answer really is to prioritize the cardiac patient over the unvaccinated Covid patient when hospitals are overrun? Ration care to the willfully unvaccinated in field hospitals so we can prioritize patients who have nothing do with it. Such a repugnant idea on its face, though.

Bad example. Many obese cardiac patients have a choice like unvaccinated patients. Watch your diet. Why should they get preference? 

[SalinasSpartan]

23 minutes ago, Bob said:

Age-adjusted CA and FL are doing about the same

Cool, now do Vermont.

[NVGiant]

6 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

Bad example. Many obese cardiac patients have a choice like unvaccinated patients. Watch your diet. Why should they get preference? 

That wasn't my example. It was HRs and you added the obese. But why should unvaccinated Covid patients get preference, especially when they are the cause of the hospitals being overrun? 

[soupslam1]

1 minute ago, NVGiant said:

That wasn't my example. It was HRs and you added the obese. But why should unvaccinated Covid patients get preference, especially when they are the cause of the hospitals being overrun? 

Why should an obese cardiac patient get preference. He/she has a choice also.