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Corona Virus - How bad is it going to be?

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44 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

It’s a small enclave, all of Florida is one big retirement community. You ever hear of anyone going to California to retire? 

actually.  yes I know a lot of retired people living in California

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3 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

I never realized how dumb and scientifically illiterate some nurses can be until I took birthing classes. Some of the people in the Breast is Best cult are absolute lunatics. 

There was a poster on Bronco Country spreading COVID disinformation and appealing to his wife's authority as she was a nurse.  I used the "There are a lot of dumb nurses" line.  He did not take kindly.  I could have used more tact, I guess.

 

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14 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

So, like I said, it doesn't do anything that allowing those already cautious localities to do the same thing they would have done in the first place wouldn't have done. Except it does create a scenario in which people in those localities can say the people in the dumb counties who get COVID (many of whom are at significantly higher risk because they can't work remotely, and also live in high-risk environments) deserve to die. 

Doesn't sound like very effective public health policies to me.

Not sure where anywhere in my posts I suggested that said denizens "deserve to die?"

As I said, county public health policies are going to be bolstered by the state's authority. Why is this important? I don't think I'm going out on a limb by suggesting that there is likely a very similar degree of science-based policy and philosophic altruism consistent with all county public health agencies regardless of their locality. Thus, the state's mandate makes it easier for local public health officials to do their job, full stop.

At the end of the day, this is an intrastate public health emergency, and thus the buck stops in Sacto.

 

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6 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

There was a poster on Bronco Country spreading COVID disinformation and appealing to his wife's authority as she was a nurse.  I used the "There are a lot of dumb nurses" line.  He did not take kindly.  I could have used more tact, I guess.

 

It's true tho. :shrug:

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7 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

There was a poster on Bronco Country spreading COVID disinformation and appealing to his wife's authority as she was a nurse.  I used the "There are a lot of dumb nurses" line.  He did not take kindly.  I could have used more tact, I guess.

 

2020 has taught me that tact is a totally overrated skill.  

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19 minutes ago, TheSanDiegan said:

Not sure where anywhere in my posts I suggested that said denizens "deserve to die?"

Not saying you said that, I am saying that there is a general sense of that among the people who live in the more progressive parts of the state. And even then, I am not necessarily against policies that allow people to live and die with their choices. But that's not what a statewide mask mandate is. 

Quote

As I said, county public health policies are going to be bolstered by the state's authority. Why is this important? I don't think I'm going out on a limb by suggesting that there is likely a very similar degree of science-based policy and philosophic altruism consistent with all county public health agencies regardless of their locality. Thus, the state's mandate makes it easier for local public health officials to do their job, full stop.

At the end of the day, this is an intrastate public health emergency, and thus the buck stops in Sacto.

 

But I am saying it doesn't make it a lot easier for local public health officials to do their job, especially in communities where people aren't going to wear masks and the economies have higher numbers of "essential" workers whose jobs are higher risk. It just gives something for them to focus their energy and resources on, specifically the enforcement of this policy.

The biggest public health issue has been from the beginning ICU and hospital capacity. This law does nothing to help my community in that manner. It just makes the assholes more self-righteous about walking around Walgreens without a mask on, and the other assholes more self-righteous about wearing masks outside and glaring at people for not doing the same. 

As for the bolded, you and I have argued about that already. I disagree with you quite a bit there, but that's OK. 

In the grand scheme of things, I don't think the statewide mask mandate is a huge deal. I'm not going to pick up a protest sign and try to recall Newsom or anything. It's not going to change my habits, since I already do the things that reasonable people do. But I don't think its a good idea because it will do very little to nothing to change behaviors, and passing laws that people know will not be enforced is not ever a good thing IMO.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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1 hour ago, soupslam1 said:

There are a lot more retired old people in Florida, the ones that are most likely to die from Covid. 

That argument really doesn’t hold water. Maine is the oldest state in the Union (median age 45) yet has the 2nd lowest rate of Covid deaths (102 per 100k). Florida’s median age is 42.5 with 289 deaths per 100k. 

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43 minutes ago, TheSanDiegan said:

I'm all for letting the unvaxxed die in cots. I think that will be a much better enforcer than any law. My anti-vax uncle in the Valley finally got vaxxed after his 2 best friends died. That's going to be the only thing that works, from now on. 

This assumes only the unvaxxed, irresponsible idiots will die, and it also assumes that this isn’t an infectious disease or that all these unvaxxed dying will actually send any particular message to Covid deniers. 
 

 800k dead says otherwise.  

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19 minutes ago, Orygun said:

This assumes only the unvaxxed, irresponsible idiots will die, and it also assumes that this isn’t an infectious disease or that all these unvaxxed dying will actually send any particular message to Covid deniers. 
 

 800k dead says otherwise.  

Not sure how you put my statement in someone else's quote, but...

The numbers since the vaccinations have been out overwhelmingly show that the biggest public health problem is among the unvaccinated. If you're vaccinated and up to date on your booster, you are at significantly lower risk than if you are unvaccinated. You're overwhelmingly less likely to die with the necessary shots. Even with what we don't know about Omicron, that seems to be holding true there as well with breakthrough infections. I would put money on the fact that the trend holds - we will see more breakthrough infections with the new variant, but people with updated vax schedules and boosters will fare significantly better than people without them. On top of the fact that the variant will be less virulent, the only increased threat this will have for the vaccinated is clogging up hospital capacity because of the swift spread. So ease that clog - publicly funded hospitals for unvaxxed COVID patients. It'll be the COVID version of having to go to the county hospital for the clap because you don't have insurance. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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I think our problem with Covid is our American culture. If the suffering doesn’t happen to an American directly they don’t really give a shit, and they deem their personal freedoms more important than the safety of people they don’t care about. 
People have fought harder to get masks out of schools than to stop the weekly school shootings that occur.

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1 minute ago, smltwnrckr said:

Not sure how you put my statement in someone else's quote, but...

The numbers since the vaccinations have been out overwhelmingly show that the biggest public health problem is among the unvaccinated. If you're vaccinated and up to date on your booster, you are at significantly lower risk than if you are unvaccinated. You're overwhelmingly less likely to die with the necessary shots. Even with what we don't know about Omicron, that seems to be holding true there as well with breakthrough infections. I would put money on the fact that the trend holds - we will see more breakthrough infections with the new variant, but people with updated vax schedules and boosters will fare significantly better than people without them. On top of the fact that the variant will be less virulent, the only increased threat this will have for the vaccinated is clogging up hospital capacity. So ease that clog - publicly field hospitals for unvaxxed COVID patients. It'll be the COVID version of having to go to the county hospital for the clap because you don't have insurance. 

Sorry, I think I quoted San Diegan quoting you. 
 

My only argument is with the idea that we should dispense with the mask/vax rules.  We still need them. They’re the only thing that has motivates a huge chunk of people to vaccinate.  I don’t think being a gullible twit deserves a death sentence.  Facebook is a public health problem.  

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17 hours ago, Bob said:

Tell me about all the dead school children, moron. And the largest study in Texas showed zero difference 

ahh Bob here is that Texas Study.

 

https://www.kxan.com/investigations/texas-school-covid-19-cases-how-those-with-mask-mandates-compare-to-those-without/

 

89% more cases reported among students and staff combined in districts without mask mandates.
 
96% more cases reported among students in districts without mask mandates.
61% more cases reported among staff in districts without mask mandates.
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12 minutes ago, IanforHeisman said:

People have fought harder to get masks out of schools than to stop the weekly school shootings that occur.

And that right there shows me how f****d up this country is. School shootings and excessive Covid deaths are prices too many are willing to accept in the exercise of their rights. 

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2 minutes ago, Old_SD_Dude said:

And that right there shows me how f****d up this country is. School shootings and excessive Covid deaths are prices too many are willing to accept in the exercise of their rights. 

There's people out there all in a heap over kid wearing a mask, but all good with kid wearing a kevlar vest to school 

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Just now, Old_SD_Dude said:

And that right there shows me how f****d up this country is. School shootings and excessive Covid deaths are prices too many are willing to accept in the exercise of their rights. 

School shootings are so common now it’s normal now, and basically accepted as part of our culture. 

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45 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

But I am saying it doesn't make it a lot easier for local public health officials to do their job, especially in communities where people aren't going to wear masks and the economies have higher numbers of "essential" workers whose jobs are higher risk. It just gives something for them to focus their energy and resources on, specifically the enforcement of this policy.

It would seem you and I disagree with the effectiveness of bolstering local county health authority with the state's mandate. I don't know about your locale, but here the county board of supervisors have had to endure all sorts of batshit craziness from the clinical outliers that significantly inhibits their ability to perform their job to even the most nominal capacity. So being able to offload the burden of hate to the PTB at the state level theoretically insulates them to some degree.

Form another angle: what if the state mandate increases local compliance just by 10%? Isn't the marginal insulation of the genpop consistent with what you state is the biggest public health issue below?

45 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

The biggest public health issue has been from the beginning ICU and hospital capacity. This law does nothing to help my community in that manner. It just makes the assholes more self-righteous about walking around Walgreens without a mask on, and the other assholes more self-righteous about wearing masks outside and glaring at people for not doing the same. 

But I don't think its a good idea because it will do very little to nothing to change behaviors, and passing laws that people know will not be enforced is not ever a good thing IMO.

To the contrary, increasing mask usage most certainly does have a direct impact on mitigating healthcare resource bandwidth issues.

I get it though that you're saying the state mandate will do nothing in your community to achieve that. Well, my friend, that's more of an indictment of your provincial locals than anything else. :shrug:

And as far as enforcing compliance? You're argument could be inductively applied to any law locals don't like. The last I checked, whether or not someone liked a given law, ordinance, or mandate really didn't factor into their accountability and responsibility to adhere. That's why penalties exist.

Speaking of which, with regards to your specific example, if Walgreens refuses to enforce said mandate, they should be fined. WhyTF a local (let alone national) establishment wouldn't want to comply is beyond me. I listened to some local shop owners (e.g., barbers) b1tching about it on the local news last night, how customers would complain because "it's an inconvenience." :rolleyes: Ffs they need to GTFOver themselves already... 

 

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