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Corona Virus - How bad is it going to be?

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5 hours ago, modestobulldog said:

I think we're handling this the best possible way. We need to put the pedal to the metal, the best we can. Ease up when we need to, use our noggins, figure out the best way to handle it. The more our economy tanks, the worse the overall suffering will be. Right now it seems everybody's banking on masks. If that doesn't do it, we may just need to accept increased deaths. Big picture, we've been blessed with long-term increase in age longevity, this will just be a minor setback in the overall trend. A few generations ago, you were lucky to live to age 65.

 

Screenshot_20200625-174631.png

Yeah not sure what your intent was with that chart but if you juxtapose it with cost per capita showing the US spends 1.8 times more than the next closest country it’s a pretty good model of how F’d up our country is on healthcare.  

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1 hour ago, 4UNLV said:

Any truth to this? higher premiums I understand, but denial? That would be especially brutal for those who tested positive but were asymptomatic.

 

 

The best he can do is issue an executive order. The Dems in the House aren’t changing any law.   

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1 hour ago, toonkee said:

Costs you 4 years of your life to live in the greatest country in the world I guess...

"American Exceptionalism"! :thumbsup:

 

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2 hours ago, sactowndog said:

Yeah not sure what your intent was with that chart but if you juxtapose it with cost per capita showing the US spends 1.8 times more than the next closest country it’s a pretty good model of how F’d up our country is on healthcare.  

No it doesn’t. Life expectancy isn’t a reflection of how good our healthcare system is. Once you’re in their hands, you’re in the best healthcare system in the world. Before that, while you’re driving your suburban self to and fro, traveling from point a to point b until an accident happens, it’s out of their hands. It’s a big country. And it’s even bigger for most of us that frequent here. We know we’re not walking it, or riding trains or subways like many other places. That ain’t the medical professional’s fault.

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9 hours ago, 4UNLV said:

Any truth to this? higher premiums I understand, but denial? That would be especially brutal for those who tested positive but were asymptomatic.

 

 

It's a great way to slow down testing, like he suggested.  

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8 hours ago, toonkee said:

Costs you 4 years of your life to live in the greatest country in the world I guess...

It's like a military sentence enlistment term :P

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5 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

No it doesn’t. Life expectancy isn’t a reflection of how good our healthcare system is. Once you’re in their hands, you’re in the best healthcare system in the world. Before that, while you’re driving your suburban self to and fro, traveling from point a to point b until an accident happens, it’s out of their hands. It’s a big country. And it’s even bigger for most of us that frequent here. We know we’re not walking it, or riding trains or subways like many other places. That ain’t the medical professional’s fault.

This is true, but it’s not the whole truth. While our system is among the best in the world, Access to health care for the poor and lower middle class is a key reason why their life expectancy is significantly lower than other Americans, driving the overall life expectancy of the country lower.

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9 hours ago, toonkee said:

Costs you 4 years of your life to live in the greatest country in the world I guess...

We get it. You hate America. 

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Comparing the life expectancy of our diverse population with those of countries of homogeneous populations is comparing apples to oranges and then to decry our health care system as the sole reason we lag is doubly stupid.

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29 minutes ago, Bob said:

Comparing the life expectancy of our diverse population with those of countries of homogeneous populations is comparing apples to oranges and then to decry our health care system as the sole reason we lag is doubly stupid.

Not all developed countries are homogenous. How do we compare to the UK, France, and Canada? Not being a smart ass, I haven’t looked up how we stack up against them. 

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6 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

No it doesn’t. Life expectancy isn’t a reflection of how good our healthcare system is. Once you’re in their hands, you’re in the best healthcare system in the world. Before that, while you’re driving your suburban self to and fro, traveling from point a to point b until an accident happens, it’s out of their hands. It’s a big country. And it’s even bigger for most of us that frequent here. We know we’re not walking it, or riding trains or subways like many other places. That ain’t the medical professional’s fault.

That may be true for the 1% club.  It is not close to true for those going to places like Kaiser which actively tries to not see people to increase profits.  And life expectancy is a measure of our healthcare as is infant mortality and other proxies.

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34 minutes ago, Bob said:

Comparing the life expectancy of our diverse population with those of countries of homogeneous populations is comparing apples to oranges and then to decry our health care system as the sole reason we lag is doubly stupid.

Thinking those countries all have homogeneous populations is not at all accurate.  Britain has a very diverse population for example.   Spend any time in London?  The statistics Modesto posted are called benchmarking.  It is used in every well run organization.  If you think you have a better benchmark statistic you are free to post it.   Otherwise, it is your typical head in the sand ignore the data response which quite frankly gets old and is out of step with everyone else who is thoughtful and data driven on this board.

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11 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

Not all developed countries are homogenous. How do we compare to the UK, France, and Canada? Not being a smart ass, I haven’t looked up how we stack up against them. 

United States = 78.9

UK = 81.3

Canada = 82.4

France = 82.7

 

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1 hour ago, Bob said:

We get it. You hate America. 

No, I'm just tired of GD stupid dummies that see world stats on things like life expectancy, happiness, freedom and education and tell me America is #1 because some people have a house on a quarter acre. 

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8 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

No it doesn’t. Life expectancy isn’t a reflection of how good our healthcare system is. Once you’re in their hands, you’re in the best healthcare system in the world. Before that, while you’re driving your suburban self to and fro, traveling from point a to point b until an accident happens, it’s out of their hands. It’s a big country. And it’s even bigger for most of us that frequent here. We know we’re not walking it, or riding trains or subways like many other places. That ain’t the medical professional’s fault.

Exactly.  Healthcare systems should be judged why outcomes.

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11 hours ago, toonkee said:

Costs you 4 years of your life to live in the greatest country in the world I guess...

Wonder what these & some other "causes" do to the USA's lower number

Traffic deaths

Obesity / cardiac related deaths 

Gun deaths 

Bet those three are driving the numbers down because those three things are mainly American in nature.........Car & gun culture, less mass transit that other countries & the fatty fast food type of diets 

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1 hour ago, sactowndog said:

United States = 78.9

UK = 81.3

Canada = 82.4

France = 82.7

 

United States  non-hispanic white = 62.5%

UK white = 81.9%

Canada white = 83%

France white = 85% white

 

America is way more diverse than these countries

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8 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

No it doesn’t. Life expectancy isn’t a reflection of how good our healthcare system is. Once you’re in their hands, you’re in the best healthcare system in the world. Before that, while you’re driving your suburban self to and fro, traveling from point a to point b until an accident happens, it’s out of their hands. It’s a big country. And it’s even bigger for most of us that frequent here. We know we’re not walking it, or riding trains or subways like many other places. That ain’t the medical professional’s fault.

And yet until not long ago, American total life expectancy was very much in line with the rest of the world. So what happened during the last two decades? The country didn't get bigger. Traffic deaths are near a historic low (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year#/media/File:US_traffic_deaths_per_VMT,_VMT,_per_capita,_and_total_annual_deaths.png). Canada is an even bigger (and more diverse) country with a much better life expectancy.

However, I agree that declining life expectancy is not the fault of the quality of the healthcare system (it is far too expensive though). Just like the police, schools, and some other institutions, healthcare in America is asked to do far too much and far too many things outside its core duties.

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35 minutes ago, BYUcougfan said:

Exactly.  Healthcare systems should be judged why outcomes.

Fine post the comparative data.   But I am not sure that outcomes tells a holistic story because it doesn't not account for preventative care to minimize the need but I am happy to look at the data and be convinced.

If you have measures of preventative care and outcomes I would be very interested.  

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