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Corona Virus - How bad is it going to be?

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29 minutes ago, Bob said:

Comparing the life expectancy of our diverse population with those of countries of homogeneous populations is comparing apples to oranges and then to decry our health care system as the sole reason we lag is doubly stupid.

Not all developed countries are homogenous. How do we compare to the UK, France, and Canada? Not being a smart ass, I haven’t looked up how we stack up against them. 

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6 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

No it doesn’t. Life expectancy isn’t a reflection of how good our healthcare system is. Once you’re in their hands, you’re in the best healthcare system in the world. Before that, while you’re driving your suburban self to and fro, traveling from point a to point b until an accident happens, it’s out of their hands. It’s a big country. And it’s even bigger for most of us that frequent here. We know we’re not walking it, or riding trains or subways like many other places. That ain’t the medical professional’s fault.

That may be true for the 1% club.  It is not close to true for those going to places like Kaiser which actively tries to not see people to increase profits.  And life expectancy is a measure of our healthcare as is infant mortality and other proxies.

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34 minutes ago, Bob said:

Comparing the life expectancy of our diverse population with those of countries of homogeneous populations is comparing apples to oranges and then to decry our health care system as the sole reason we lag is doubly stupid.

Thinking those countries all have homogeneous populations is not at all accurate.  Britain has a very diverse population for example.   Spend any time in London?  The statistics Modesto posted are called benchmarking.  It is used in every well run organization.  If you think you have a better benchmark statistic you are free to post it.   Otherwise, it is your typical head in the sand ignore the data response which quite frankly gets old and is out of step with everyone else who is thoughtful and data driven on this board.

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11 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

Not all developed countries are homogenous. How do we compare to the UK, France, and Canada? Not being a smart ass, I haven’t looked up how we stack up against them. 

United States = 78.9

UK = 81.3

Canada = 82.4

France = 82.7

 

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1 hour ago, Bob said:

We get it. You hate America. 

No, I'm just tired of GD stupid dummies that see world stats on things like life expectancy, happiness, freedom and education and tell me America is #1 because some people have a house on a quarter acre. 

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8 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

No it doesn’t. Life expectancy isn’t a reflection of how good our healthcare system is. Once you’re in their hands, you’re in the best healthcare system in the world. Before that, while you’re driving your suburban self to and fro, traveling from point a to point b until an accident happens, it’s out of their hands. It’s a big country. And it’s even bigger for most of us that frequent here. We know we’re not walking it, or riding trains or subways like many other places. That ain’t the medical professional’s fault.

Exactly.  Healthcare systems should be judged why outcomes.

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11 hours ago, toonkee said:

Costs you 4 years of your life to live in the greatest country in the world I guess...

Wonder what these & some other "causes" do to the USA's lower number

Traffic deaths

Obesity / cardiac related deaths 

Gun deaths 

Bet those three are driving the numbers down because those three things are mainly American in nature.........Car & gun culture, less mass transit that other countries & the fatty fast food type of diets 

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1 hour ago, sactowndog said:

United States = 78.9

UK = 81.3

Canada = 82.4

France = 82.7

 

United States  non-hispanic white = 62.5%

UK white = 81.9%

Canada white = 83%

France white = 85% white

 

America is way more diverse than these countries

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8 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

No it doesn’t. Life expectancy isn’t a reflection of how good our healthcare system is. Once you’re in their hands, you’re in the best healthcare system in the world. Before that, while you’re driving your suburban self to and fro, traveling from point a to point b until an accident happens, it’s out of their hands. It’s a big country. And it’s even bigger for most of us that frequent here. We know we’re not walking it, or riding trains or subways like many other places. That ain’t the medical professional’s fault.

And yet until not long ago, American total life expectancy was very much in line with the rest of the world. So what happened during the last two decades? The country didn't get bigger. Traffic deaths are near a historic low (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year#/media/File:US_traffic_deaths_per_VMT,_VMT,_per_capita,_and_total_annual_deaths.png). Canada is an even bigger (and more diverse) country with a much better life expectancy.

However, I agree that declining life expectancy is not the fault of the quality of the healthcare system (it is far too expensive though). Just like the police, schools, and some other institutions, healthcare in America is asked to do far too much and far too many things outside its core duties.

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35 minutes ago, BYUcougfan said:

Exactly.  Healthcare systems should be judged why outcomes.

Fine post the comparative data.   But I am not sure that outcomes tells a holistic story because it doesn't not account for preventative care to minimize the need but I am happy to look at the data and be convinced.

If you have measures of preventative care and outcomes I would be very interested.  

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14 minutes ago, UNLV2001 said:

Wonder what these & some other "causes" do to the USA's lower number

Traffic deaths

Obesity / cardiac related deaths 

Gun deaths 

Bet those three are driving the numbers down because those three things are mainly American in nature.........Car & gun culture, less mass transit that other countries & the fatty fast food type of diets 

So Obesity and Cardiac can be somewhat traced back to preventative care.   I think someone posted car deaths have declined.   Gun deaths have always been a problem so what changed since the early 1980's?

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20 minutes ago, UNLV2001 said:

Wonder what these & some other "causes" do to the USA's lower number

Traffic deaths

Obesity / cardiac related deaths 

Gun deaths 

Bet those three are driving the numbers down because those three things are mainly American in nature.........Car & gun culture, less mass transit that other countries & the fatty fast food type of diets 

Pretty sure the US could afford all its gun and traffic deaths (both at historic lows as far as I know) and still compare favorably if it got its lifestyle back on track. It's a sad fact that many Americans a piss poor quality of life when it comes to factors like time off, childcare, nutrition, and exercise. 

I'd wager that although the members of this board enjoy above average incomes and live in places with above average quality of life (especially Fort Collins, of course), there's a sizable number of members who never eat real cheese, never had a chicken that wasn't a water-soaked monstrosity, never take a vacation longer than a week, etc, etc. Small things, but if a hundred of them add up, things are bad. 

You can't be healthy like living the lifestyle many people live. You can keep going somehow, but you can't be healthy as an individual nor as a society. Which is sad because fixing these quality of life issues for most Americans would be well within our means.

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1 minute ago, sactowndog said:

So Obesity and Cardiac can be somewhat traced back to preventative care.   I think someone posted car deaths have declined.   Gun deaths have always been a problem so what changed since the early 1980's?

Have to wonder on food driven obesity & cardiac deaths if the economic downturn plays a factor ( I think it probably does) as people eat fattier, less healthy foods - Right now pretty much every fast food chain has specials running like 2-1 burgers, so people load up on that for cheap 

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12 minutes ago, Bob said:

United States  non-hispanic white = 62.5%

UK white = 81.9%

Canada white = 83%

France white = 85% white

 

America is way more diverse than these countries

So, how would you group Arabic people in those countries which are significant?  I am guessing Syrians would fall under your white category but may be just as different as hispanic whites in our country.   So your categorization is biased.   Also in the US your others are also poorer with less access to health care which is part of the systemic problem.   Your numbers on race are not necessarily causative.  But thank you for posting numbers and not just opinions. 

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1 minute ago, I am Ram said:

Pretty sure the US could afford all its gun and traffic deaths (both at historic lows as far as I know) and still compare favorably if it got its lifestyle back on track. It's a sad fact that many Americans a piss poor quality of life when it comes to factors like time off, childcare, nutrition, and exercise. 

I'd wager that although the members of this board enjoy above average incomes and live in places with above average quality of life (especially Fort Collins, of course), there's a sizable number of members who never eat real cheese, never had a chicken that wasn't a water-soaked monstrosity, never take a vacation longer than a week, etc, etc. Small things, but if a hundred of them add up, things are bad. 

You can't be healthy like living the lifestyle many people live. You can keep going somehow, but you can't be healthy as an individual nor as a society. Which is sad because fixing these quality of life issues for most Americans would be well within our means.

Vehicular and gun deaths could be cut if people didn't drive impaired or distracted.........and people get killed accidentally by guns all the time, especially kids 

Family speaks out after child dies in accidental shooting SOUTH BEND, Ind. (WNDU) - The family of a South Bend one-year-old boy, who was tragically killed in an accidental shooting last week, spoke out for the very first time Monday.

2-year-old shot, killed in apparent accidental shooting in Florida 2-year-old boy picked up a gun that he thought was a toy, and it went off.

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10 minutes ago, I am Ram said:

Pretty sure the US could afford all its gun and traffic deaths (both at historic lows as far as I know) and still compare favorably if it got its lifestyle back on track. It's a sad fact that many Americans a piss poor quality of life when it comes to factors like time off, childcare, nutrition, and exercise. 

I'd wager that although the members of this board enjoy above average incomes and live in places with above average quality of life (especially Fort Collins, of course), there's a sizable number of members who never eat real cheese, never had a chicken that wasn't a water-soaked monstrosity, never take a vacation longer than a week, etc, etc. Small things, but if a hundred of them add up, things are bad. 

You can't be healthy like living the lifestyle many people live. You can keep going somehow, but you can't be healthy as an individual nor as a society. Which is sad because fixing these quality of life issues for most Americans would be well within our means.

Right but how many are stuck in bad jobs precisely because they need health care?  

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5 minutes ago, UNLV2001 said:

Vehicular and gun deaths could be cut if people didn't drive impaired or distracted.........and people get killed accidentally by guns all the time, especially kids 

Family speaks out after child dies in accidental shooting SOUTH BEND, Ind. (WNDU) - The family of a South Bend one-year-old boy, who was tragically killed in an accidental shooting last week, spoke out for the very first time Monday.

2-year-old shot, killed in apparent accidental shooting in Florida 2-year-old boy picked up a gun that he thought was a toy, and it went off.

I'm not questioning that. What I'm saying is that neither gun deaths nor traffic accidents are what cuts off years of average life expectancy compared to other developed countries. 

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6 minutes ago, UNLV2001 said:

Vehicular and gun deaths could be cut if people didn't drive impaired or distracted.........and people get killed accidentally by guns all the time, especially kids 

Family speaks out after child dies in accidental shooting SOUTH BEND, Ind. (WNDU) - The family of a South Bend one-year-old boy, who was tragically killed in an accidental shooting last week, spoke out for the very first time Monday.

2-year-old shot, killed in apparent accidental shooting in Florida 2-year-old boy picked up a gun that he thought was a toy, and it went off.

Right but it is not like vehicle and gun deaths were not also prevalent in the 1970's.   Which brings us back to the question what has changed?

 

 

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1 minute ago, I am Ram said:

I'm not questioning that. What I'm saying is that neither gun deaths nor traffic accidents are what cuts off years of average life expectancy compared to other developed countries. 

 

Just now, sactowndog said:

Right but it is not like vehicle and gun deaths were not also prevalent in the 1970's.   Which brings us back to the question what has changed?

 

 

I'd go with there being more cars & drivers....though cars are much safer than they used to be plus seatbelts are prevalent now and not so much pre-1980's.............guns I'd put to just more guns laying around & not kept tucked away................and since the 1970's the boom in processed & fast food chains - Used to be only the local drive in, then came everything under the sun as fast food.

When I was in HS in Sparks NV, we only had a McDonalds.......I remember a Wendy's opening in 1978 and after that came the other FF chains - Reno / Sparks was pretty devoid of fast food chains in the 1970's............then boom, pizza, checken, burgers, hot dogs, etc etc.......................then factor in the US moved from a manufacturing based economy to a service economy and toss in the tech growth & computer based sedentary jobs. 

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