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Corona Virus - How bad is it going to be?

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8 minutes ago, East Coast Aztec said:

I think the data supports opening up more for most areas.  I have a concern about workers who still feel a personal threat getting fired for not showing up when their job opens up.  I don't think they would qualify for ADA protection.  Perhaps a furlough if they can't telework and use temp staffing?

Maybe. I think we as a society need to start having these conversations now and have some policies and procedures in place to move forward. If workers have legitimate health concerns, those need to be documented and factored into decision making. If a second wave does hit, we have to be more nimble as a society to adjust as needed. 

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10 hours ago, DestinFlPackfan said:

The venue is covering their ass and taking money. The President is asking for people to show up to said venue and 'potentially' put themselves in harm's way, ignoring gov't recommendations and not hold him liable for getting them to go there ( if they get sick). I get the ' didn't make them come here' legal argument. ...but damn, dude you are making them come there, they are your supporters,  why look at them like potential litigants?  I know why ...because of your paranoia.  Don't hold rallies in venues like rock stars...do it on twitter.

Maybe they can loot the venues hotdog vendor.  Would that make you feel better about it?

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I have been told to expect to work from home till at least the end of summer. I have long commute, so this has been great news to me. The scamdemic has caused profits and cash flow at our company to go in the shitter.  I was planning on retiring May 31st, but I'm delaying because they've announced cutbacks at work. Hopefully, I win the lottery and get one-year severance pay and enhanced medical coverage that will get me within 9 months of Medicare.

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28 minutes ago, BSUTOP25 said:

Maybe. I think we as a society need to start having these conversations now and have some policies and procedures in place to move forward. If workers have legitimate health concerns, those need to be documented and factored into decision making. If a second wave does hit, we have to be more nimble as a society to adjust as needed. 

Agreed.  Businesses and local governments need these conversations early as you said and those workers who have concerns hopefully have a line of communication to weigh in on those discussions.  I have single parent coworkers, expecting mothers and some near-retirement folks who likely have some rationale hangups on heading back to a cube farm.

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15 hours ago, Del Scorcho said:

it can be a painful death, he doesnt want to avoid that? He's okay with people that love him watch for weeks as he suffers. He's good with possibly infecting others and making them suffer?  

I watched my wife suffer in pain for weeks once, it was heart breaking as she asked for morphine every few minutes.  The nurses told me they couldn't give her any more pain medicine.  I was a complete mess. Her family and I wished we could trade places with her just for a few minutes, to give her a break. We cried, we prayed, we screamed as she clung to life. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

That’s the thing, for months people were not allowed to be there as their loved ones suffered and died. They had to do it alone. You weren’t allowed in a hospital to visit, you weren’t allowed in a nursing home. They met lonely ends and their loved ones had to deal with lonely grief. Up until people started marching, you couldn’t even hold a funeral of more than 10 people in many places. People made sacrifices here, and then the rules got thrown out the window overnight. Good luck getting them to do it again.

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We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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4 hours ago, East Coast Aztec said:

With other states seeing slight increases, I have to wonder if these folks have been tested or if the virus isn't as spreadable as once thought?

Personally I think it is the way it spreads that needs to be considered. One to two weeks is basically one cycle.

One infected person is not going to transmit it to hundreds directly in one cycle. Instead that one person will transmit it only to several other people. Then those several will transmit it to several more. Etc.

Visualize it as a tree diagram with the number of branches increasing at each point. Or consider it as exponential growth starting slow then increasing.

I am not looking at the first two weeks after reopening. Instead I am waiting to see what things are like in say 6 or 8 weeks as a larger percentage of people move around without masks or social distancing.

I plan to give it a few cycles of growth again to see if it does not spread easily or if it is disappearing.

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On 6/11/2020 at 1:29 PM, CV147 said:

A lot of people think that deaths are wrongly being attributed to Covid-19. They think that there's an agenda and money to be made by saying everyone's dying of Covid, when in reality they're dying from other causes.

I don't believe that, but that's what people I know believe.

I don’t doubt that happens but I do doubt it happens on some grand scale to effectively change the overall narrative or picture of pandemic deaths.

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2 hours ago, FresnoFacts said:

Personally I think it is the way it spreads that needs to be considered. One to two weeks is basically one cycle.

One infected person is not going to transmit it to hundreds directly in one cycle. Instead that one person will transmit it only to several other people. Then those several will transmit it to several more. Etc.

Visualize it as a tree diagram with the number of branches increasing at each point. Or consider it as exponential growth starting slow then increasing.

I am not looking at the first two weeks after reopening. Instead I am waiting to see what things are like in say 6 or 8 weeks as a larger percentage of people move around without masks or social distancing.

I plan to give it a few cycles of growth again to see if it does not spread easily or if it is disappearing.

Utah has 6 weeks under its belt.  Cases have increased a bit but it hasn’t been all that bad or even remotely close to unmanageable.

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3 hours ago, NorCalCoug said:

Utah has 6 weeks under its belt.  Cases have increased a bit but it hasn’t been all that bad or even remotely close to unmanageable.

Did I misunderstand that Utah's governor just slowed the reopening and is staying at Yellow to see why cases have increased so much?

 

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On 5/18/2020 at 2:04 PM, smltwnrckr said:

I have a close friend whose elderly father just died in the hospital. Not from COVID, but from a stroke. He was already dealing with extreme issues related to his mental and physical capabilities... I believe he had had a previous stroke, and he had some form of dementia. He was hospitalized after due to recent and extreme deterioration of his condition, and because of the rules of COVID directed by our leaders, he was not allowed a single family member to either be there with him or advocate on his behalf considering his condition. They begged for his wife to be able to be in there, as she had been completely isolating during the entire time. They begged that she could get in there sooner than later to be with him before he deteriorated beyond his ability to recognize anyone or be aware family was near. They were told that under no circumstances were "visitors" allowed. He had a stroke, and was catatonic for another two days before he died. They finally let his wife in there to be with him, after he was unaware of his surroundings, on the last day.

My father in law is currently in the hospital, alone, with Parkinson's and Lewy Body dementia. Unrelated to COVID. He had to go last week after some recent deterioration of his condition. He is unable to communicate, and he is unable to functionally understand and respond to questions on a good day. My mother-in-law is his medical proxy and full-time caretaker. She is being refused entrance because of the "no visitors" policy. It is unclear to any of us how he is doing, what his situation is and why they are disregarding his rights to adequate representation as a disabled person. The hospital staff and administration is being uncommunicative and at times belligerent and condescending in the face of reasonable requests for information and accommodations.

There is no practical reason why either of these men should have been refused a single person to advocate at their side if that person was able to meet certain criteria and follow strict guidelines and quarantine during and after being in the facility. Furthermore, these are both immoral outcomes that strip people of their human rights not just to a functional advocate but to basic levels of dignity.

This is not about math and this not about the curve. This is about the fact that doctors and nurses are just as bad at being bureaucrats and policymakers as any other idiot. Pray that your dependents, whether they be adults who need full-time care or they be young children, do not have to go to the hospital any time soon.

An unfortunate bump... my father in law died early this morning. Luckily, we were able to get him home and around family after a protracted struggle with the hospital. So his wife and his two daughters were with him when he went. 

He was a good man, and I plan to post something about him at some point soon. But I can't get over right now the anger that I still have about the fact that the state is denying my family its right to bury our dead and grieve as my family sees fit. Sorry, but I think it is a +++++ing crime against humanity to refuse funeral rites because of Covid-19. What is humanity but a collection of rituals that connects us? That's literally what culture is. The fact that protests are OK makes this even more infuriating... my family is actually mourning for an actual person that we knew and loved. But we are not able to have a gathering of more than 10 people.

But you know, it's just math. It's just math. 

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Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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2 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

An unfortunate bump... my father in law died early this morning. Luckily, we were able to get him home and around family after a protracted struggle with the hospital. So his wife and his two daughters were with him when he went. 

He was a good man, and I plan to post something about him at some point soon. But I can't get over right now the anger that I still have about the fact that the state is denying my family its right to bury our dead and grieve as my family sees fit. Sorry, but I think it is a +++++ing crime against humanity to refuse funeral rites because of Covid-19. What is humanity but a collection of rituals that connects us? That's literally what culture is. The fact that protests are OK makes this even more infuriating... my family is actually mourning for an actual person that we knew and loved. But we are not able to have a gathering of more than 10 people.

But you know, it's just math. It's just math. 

I’m so sorry for you and your family.  That is so rough.  Stay strong—we all support you here.

 

And you are right—this is the worst part about this whole thing...all the people who have died alone and can’t be mourned properly by the families.  It’s heartbreaking.  

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Boise is back to normal for the most part, drove to Dicks by the mall and noticed the mall parking lot was as full as could be. Parks have opened and they’re full. I’m not sure it’s the right move but it does feel nice to have some normal.

 

Couldnt the warm weather be helping too?

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22 hours ago, FresnoFacts said:

Personally I think it is the way it spreads that needs to be considered. One to two weeks is basically one cycle.

One infected person is not going to transmit it to hundreds directly in one cycle. Instead that one person will transmit it only to several other people. Then those several will transmit it to several more. Etc.

Visualize it as a tree diagram with the number of branches increasing at each point. Or consider it as exponential growth starting slow then increasing.

I am not looking at the first two weeks after reopening. Instead I am waiting to see what things are like in say 6 or 8 weeks as a larger percentage of people move around without masks or social distancing.

I plan to give it a few cycles of growth again to see if it does not spread easily or if it is disappearing.

I don't think reopening will trigger significant increase in deaths or hospitalizations.  I think the grim reaper has harvested the weakest of the herd.  Going forward we will better protect the vulnerable, spread will be less significant due to behavior and lifestyle changes. There likely will be an increase in infections, but not that big of a deal as nearly everybody will shake it off like the common cold. As of a day ago, 7 day avg new deaths are down 66%, 7 day avg new cases down 34%.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Obviously, this scamdemic is not any where as bad as what mysfit or the Arrogant Bastard from SD foisted on this thread.

The above is looking at US totals, what is interesting is looking at California.  California has been on the heavy handed side, yet our decline is minimal, just horizontal with slight decline.  Maybe the grim reaper is going to harvest the weakest no matter the measures put in place to prevent??

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10 hours ago, smltwnrckr said:

An unfortunate bump... my father in law died early this morning. Luckily, we were able to get him home and around family after a protracted struggle with the hospital. So his wife and his two daughters were with him when he went. 

He was a good man, and I plan to post something about him at some point soon. But I can't get over right now the anger that I still have about the fact that the state is denying my family its right to bury our dead and grieve as my family sees fit. Sorry, but I think it is a +++++ing crime against humanity to refuse funeral rites because of Covid-19. What is humanity but a collection of rituals that connects us? That's literally what culture is. The fact that protests are OK makes this even more infuriating... my family is actually mourning for an actual person that we knew and loved. But we are not able to have a gathering of more than 10 people.

But you know, it's just math. It's just math. 

 

10 hours ago, bsubroncochick said:

I’m so sorry for you and your family.  That is so rough.  Stay strong—we all support you here.

 

And you are right—this is the worst part about this whole thing...all the people who have died alone and can’t be mourned properly by the families.  It’s heartbreaking.  

The hypocrisy is outrageous.

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I guess it's not a miracle cure after all.

Quote

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) said Monday that it has withdrawn the emergency use authorization (EUA) granted to hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine during the COVID-19 pandemic. An EUA is not the same as a FDA approval but is a type of authorization that can be awarded during public health emergencies when there are no other available treatment options. The federal agency had issued the EUA in March, allowing some patients with COVID-19 to be treated with the drugs when used from a federal stockpile. Since then, however, the drugs have become increasingly politicized following promotion from Trump administration officials, including President Donald Trump himself, and have faced questions about their clinical usefulness and potential safety risks. A number of clinical trials evaluating the drugs have failed, and the emerging scientific consensus has indicated that the drugs, which are approved to treat lupus, malaria, and rheumatoid arthritis, do not benefit patients with COVID-19 and may cause additional health risks. The messaging around hydroxychloroquine has been further complicated by an inaccurate study that found the drugs harmed patients. That research was later retracted by The Lancet, a prestigious medical journal. The letter revoking the EUA is addressed to an official at the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/fda-revokes-authorization-for-hydroxychloroquine-2020-06-15

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