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Corona Virus - How bad is it going to be?

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32 minutes ago, Bob said:

Welp, we better stay indoors for the rest of our lives. Gosh darn it.

Who is talking about staying indoors.  We are simply discussing how long before we have confidence in any results coming from Georgia.  

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58 minutes ago, sactowndog said:

Who is talking about staying indoors.  We are simply discussing how long before we have confidence in any results coming from Georgia.  

How can we be confident in any reporting? National reports are showing significant spikes in positive cases in Idaho in the last week while local reporting has shown positive cases ranging from 20-40 for the last month with the last local report being as of this morning?

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9 hours ago, soupslam1 said:

The Idaho chart is showing a spike in the last week that has not been reported locally. We have consistently been seeing 20-40 positive cases for the last month. It was up dated locally as of late last night. 

Well, CNN is in Georgia. :ph34r:

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Researchers from Drexel found that approx. 250,000 lives were saved in the largest 30 metro regions in this country by way of the stay-at-home orders (link). Here is the page with links to each of the 30 cities.

SanDiego_Info.ashx?la=en

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I have a close friend whose elderly father just died in the hospital. Not from COVID, but from a stroke. He was already dealing with extreme issues related to his mental and physical capabilities... I believe he had had a previous stroke, and he had some form of dementia. He was hospitalized after due to recent and extreme deterioration of his condition, and because of the rules of COVID directed by our leaders, he was not allowed a single family member to either be there with him or advocate on his behalf considering his condition. They begged for his wife to be able to be in there, as she had been completely isolating during the entire time. They begged that she could get in there sooner than later to be with him before he deteriorated beyond his ability to recognize anyone or be aware family was near. They were told that under no circumstances were "visitors" allowed. He had a stroke, and was catatonic for another two days before he died. They finally let his wife in there to be with him, after he was unaware of his surroundings, on the last day.

My father in law is currently in the hospital, alone, with Parkinson's and Lewy Body dementia. Unrelated to COVID. He had to go last week after some recent deterioration of his condition. He is unable to communicate, and he is unable to functionally understand and respond to questions on a good day. My mother-in-law is his medical proxy and full-time caretaker. She is being refused entrance because of the "no visitors" policy. It is unclear to any of us how he is doing, what his situation is and why they are disregarding his rights to adequate representation as a disabled person. The hospital staff and administration is being uncommunicative and at times belligerent and condescending in the face of reasonable requests for information and accommodations.

There is no practical reason why either of these men should have been refused a single person to advocate at their side if that person was able to meet certain criteria and follow strict guidelines and quarantine during and after being in the facility. Furthermore, these are both immoral outcomes that strip people of their human rights not just to a functional advocate but to basic levels of dignity.

This is not about math and this not about the curve. This is about the fact that doctors and nurses are just as bad at being bureaucrats and policymakers as any other idiot. Pray that your dependents, whether they be adults who need full-time care or they be young children, do not have to go to the hospital any time soon.

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5 hours ago, soupslam1 said:

How can we be confident in any reporting? National reports are showing significant spikes in positive cases in Idaho in the last week while local reporting has shown positive cases ranging from 20-40 for the last month with the last local report being as of this morning?

Yeah you wish people would report the data correctly instead of being so teams and shit that we start to doubt the data.   We can't make good scientific studies with crap data but you can't fake dying so there are ways to correlate it.   And I believe falsifying a death certificate is a crime but I could be wrong.

 

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It’s a government plot to make social security last another 10 years.

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9 hours ago, smltwnrckr said:

I have a close friend whose elderly father just died in the hospital. Not from COVID, but from a stroke. He was already dealing with extreme issues related to his mental and physical capabilities... I believe he had had a previous stroke, and he had some form of dementia. He was hospitalized after due to recent and extreme deterioration of his condition, and because of the rules of COVID directed by our leaders, he was not allowed a single family member to either be there with him or advocate on his behalf considering his condition. They begged for his wife to be able to be in there, as she had been completely isolating during the entire time. They begged that she could get in there sooner than later to be with him before he deteriorated beyond his ability to recognize anyone or be aware family was near. They were told that under no circumstances were "visitors" allowed. He had a stroke, and was catatonic for another two days before he died. They finally let his wife in there to be with him, after he was unaware of his surroundings, on the last day.

My father in law is currently in the hospital, alone, with Parkinson's and Lewy Body dementia. Unrelated to COVID. He had to go last week after some recent deterioration of his condition. He is unable to communicate, and he is unable to functionally understand and respond to questions on a good day. My mother-in-law is his medical proxy and full-time caretaker. She is being refused entrance because of the "no visitors" policy. It is unclear to any of us how he is doing, what his situation is and why they are disregarding his rights to adequate representation as a disabled person. The hospital staff and administration is being uncommunicative and at times belligerent and condescending in the face of reasonable requests for information and accommodations.

There is no practical reason why either of these men should have been refused a single person to advocate at their side if that person was able to meet certain criteria and follow strict guidelines and quarantine during and after being in the facility. Furthermore, these are both immoral outcomes that strip people of their human rights not just to a functional advocate but to basic levels of dignity.

This is not about math and this not about the curve. This is about the fact that doctors and nurses are just as bad at being bureaucrats and policymakers as any other idiot. Pray that your dependents, whether they be adults who need full-time care or they be young children, do not have to go to the hospital any time soon.

I’ve heard similar stories from relatives. My sister in law couldn’t visit her daughter who was extremely ill and near death. Protocols for visiting sick patients are extremely rigid. People have really freaked out. All you can do is shake your head.    

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21 hours ago, smltwnrckr said:

I have a close friend whose elderly father just died in the hospital. Not from COVID, but from a stroke. He was already dealing with extreme issues related to his mental and physical capabilities... I believe he had had a previous stroke, and he had some form of dementia. He was hospitalized after due to recent and extreme deterioration of his condition, and because of the rules of COVID directed by our leaders, he was not allowed a single family member to either be there with him or advocate on his behalf considering his condition. They begged for his wife to be able to be in there, as she had been completely isolating during the entire time. They begged that she could get in there sooner than later to be with him before he deteriorated beyond his ability to recognize anyone or be aware family was near. They were told that under no circumstances were "visitors" allowed. He had a stroke, and was catatonic for another two days before he died. They finally let his wife in there to be with him, after he was unaware of his surroundings, on the last day.

My father in law is currently in the hospital, alone, with Parkinson's and Lewy Body dementia. Unrelated to COVID. He had to go last week after some recent deterioration of his condition. He is unable to communicate, and he is unable to functionally understand and respond to questions on a good day. My mother-in-law is his medical proxy and full-time caretaker. She is being refused entrance because of the "no visitors" policy. It is unclear to any of us how he is doing, what his situation is and why they are disregarding his rights to adequate representation as a disabled person. The hospital staff and administration is being uncommunicative and at times belligerent and condescending in the face of reasonable requests for information and accommodations.

There is no practical reason why either of these men should have been refused a single person to advocate at their side if that person was able to meet certain criteria and follow strict guidelines and quarantine during and after being in the facility. Furthermore, these are both immoral outcomes that strip people of their human rights not just to a functional advocate but to basic levels of dignity.

This is not about math and this not about the curve. This is about the fact that doctors and nurses are just as bad at being bureaucrats and policymakers as any other idiot. Pray that your dependents, whether they be adults who need full-time care or they be young children, do not have to go to the hospital any time soon.

This is pretty similar to what happened with my family.  My dad had kidney failure due to diabetes and was on dialysis for years. His body and mind deteriorated significantly, and he couldn't take care of himself.  He was selected for a transplant in August last year, which came as a surprise to all of us, as he had been on the transplant list for around 7 years. Unfortunately, his body went into full rejection, and the doctors used a lot of different treatments to try and get his body to accept the kidney. He was in the hospital for about 8 months straight, dipping in and out of lucidity. Finally, at the end of March, he slipped into a coma. The doctors told my family he would likely die within days. I caught a very empty flight home and went to the hospital with my mom and brother. The hospital had a no visitor policy in place, but made an exception for me.  I was the only visitor in the entire hospital. My brother had been kicked out earlier because the hospital staff had changed while he was there and didn't know that he was allowed to be in. The hospital admin wasn't communicating with employees and the employees were communicating with each other.  My mom wasn't allowed in.  I saw my dad at about 1 in the morning.  The plan was to pull the plug around noon. We figured we would all come back in the morning to say goodbye.  We got a call around 5 in the morning informing us that he had passed. I was the last one to see him alive and say goodbye. It was like he was just waiting for me, the only kid who lived more that 20 miles from home, to come and say goodbye. 

The plan was to bury him as soon as possible, since we couldn't do a funeral. He died on March 31st, and we buried him on April 2nd. The cemetery would only allow 10 people in at a time. The funeral consist of me and my 4 siblings, my mom, and my dad's brother and 3 sisters. No spouses were allowed.  We almost had to scrap the funeral due to one of my dad's friends insisting that she be allowed to attend since COVID19 was a hoax. We used my phone to record the graveside service on facebook live so people could watch. If we had had a proper funeral, there would have been well over 100 people there. It was sad that we couldn't give him a proper sendoff. The whole experience was pretty surreal. My dad was known for his sense of humor, and we figured he was waiting for April 1st just to mess with everyone.  I can't imagine having to try and explain on April 1st that my dad had died.  No one would have believed me.  My dad would have thought it was funny.

 

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https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/05/19/florida-covid-19-coronavirus-data-researcher-out-state-reopens/5218897002/

:wacko:

Quote

BREVARD COUNTY, Fla. – The scientist who created Florida's COVID-19 data portal wasn't just removed from her position on May 5, she was fired on Monday by the Department of Health, she said, for refusing to manipulate data.

she confirmed, as reported by CBS-12 in West Palm Beach that she was fired because she was ordered to censor some data, but refused to "manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen."

 

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Masks are ineffective

"CoV-2 during coughs by infected patients. Prior evidence that surgical masks effectively filtered influenza virus (1) informed recommendations that patients with confirmed or suspected COVID-19 should wear face masks to prevent transmission (2). However, the size and concentrations of SARS–CoV-2 in aerosols generated during coughing are unknown. Oberg and Brousseau (3) demonstrated that surgical masks did not exhibit adequate filter performance against aerosols measuring 0.9, 2.0, and 3.1 μm in diameter. Lee and colleagues (4) showed that particles 0.04 to 0.2 μm can penetrate surgical masks. The size of the SARS–CoV particle from the 2002–2004 outbreak was estimated as 0.08 to 0.14 μm (5); assuming that SARS-CoV-2 has a similar size, surgical masks are unlikely to effectively filter this virus."

 

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-1342

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6 hours ago, Naggsty Butler said:

This is pretty similar to what happened with my family.  My dad had kidney failure due to diabetes and was on dialysis for years. His body and mind deteriorated significantly, and he couldn't take care of himself.  He was selected for a transplant in August last year, which came as a surprise to all of us, as he had been on the transplant list for around 7 years. Unfortunately, his body went into full rejection, and the doctors used a lot of different treatments to try and get his body to accept the kidney. He was in the hospital for about 8 months straight, dipping in and out of lucidity. Finally, at the end of March, he slipped into a coma. The doctors told my family he would likely die within days. I caught a very empty flight home and went to the hospital with my mom and brother. The hospital had a no visitor policy in place, but made an exception for me.  I was the only visitor in the entire hospital. My brother had been kicked out earlier because the hospital staff had changed while he was there and didn't know that he was allowed to be in. The hospital admin wasn't communicating with employees and the employees were communicating with each other.  My mom wasn't allowed in.  I saw my dad at about 1 in the morning.  The plan was to pull the plug around noon. We figured we would all come back in the morning to say goodbye.  We got a call around 5 in the morning informing us that he had passed. I was the last one to see him alive and say goodbye. It was like he was just waiting for me, the only kid who lived more that 20 miles from home, to come and say goodbye. 

The plan was to bury him as soon as possible, since we couldn't do a funeral. He died on March 31st, and we buried him on April 2nd. The cemetery would only allow 10 people in at a time. The funeral consist of me and my 4 siblings, my mom, and my dad's brother and 3 sisters. No spouses were allowed.  We almost had to scrap the funeral due to one of my dad's friends insisting that she be allowed to attend since COVID19 was a hoax. We used my phone to record the graveside service on facebook live so people could watch. If we had had a proper funeral, there would have been well over 100 people there. It was sad that we couldn't give him a proper sendoff. The whole experience was pretty surreal. My dad was known for his sense of humor, and we figured he was waiting for April 1st just to mess with everyone.  I can't imagine having to try and explain on April 1st that my dad had died.  No one would have believed me.  My dad would have thought it was funny.

 

I'm sorry man.  My entire family was at my mom's bedside when she passed.  It might sound crazy, but that really mattered.  My sincere condolences to your family.

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2 hours ago, Bob said:

Masks are ineffective

"CoV-2 during coughs by infected patients. Prior evidence that surgical masks effectively filtered influenza virus (1) informed recommendations that patients with confirmed or suspected COVID-19 should wear face masks to prevent transmission (2). However, the size and concentrations of SARS–CoV-2 in aerosols generated during coughing are unknown. Oberg and Brousseau (3) demonstrated that surgical masks did not exhibit adequate filter performance against aerosols measuring 0.9, 2.0, and 3.1 μm in diameter. Lee and colleagues (4) showed that particles 0.04 to 0.2 μm can penetrate surgical masks. The size of the SARS–CoV particle from the 2002–2004 outbreak was estimated as 0.08 to 0.14 μm (5); assuming that SARS-CoV-2 has a similar size, surgical masks are unlikely to effectively filter this virus."

 

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-1342

I think the "hope" is that they will affect the distance the particles travel, thus reducing the availability of disease particles 6 ft (or whatever) away from the sneezer.  I agree with you though that their effectiveness is very much overrated.  Especially something like a bandana or a fishing buff. 

I absolutely believe that these mask orders are more about liability than actual safety.  "Hey, don't sue us, we told them to cover their faces".

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6 hours ago, Bob said:

Masks are ineffective

But from the same piece: 

Quote

The median viral loads of nasopharyngeal and saliva samples from the 4 participants were 5.66 log copies/mL and 4.00 log copies/mL, respectively. The median viral loads after coughs without a mask, with a surgical mask, and with a cotton mask were 2.56 log copies/mL, 2.42 log copies/mL, and 1.85 log copies/mL, respectively. 

So they cut viral load in half from 8 inches away, and in other studies show they greatly limit spread throughout the space (common sense, no?) but they are ‘ineffective’?  Seems like the wrong choice of words to me. Masks are not impenetrable, but they do limit the spread. 

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6 hours ago, Bob said:

Masks are ineffective

"CoV-2 during coughs by infected patients. Prior evidence that surgical masks effectively filtered influenza virus (1) informed recommendations that patients with confirmed or suspected COVID-19 should wear face masks to prevent transmission (2). However, the size and concentrations of SARS–CoV-2 in aerosols generated during coughing are unknown. Oberg and Brousseau (3) demonstrated that surgical masks did not exhibit adequate filter performance against aerosols measuring 0.9, 2.0, and 3.1 μm in diameter. Lee and colleagues (4) showed that particles 0.04 to 0.2 μm can penetrate surgical masks. The size of the SARS–CoV particle from the 2002–2004 outbreak was estimated as 0.08 to 0.14 μm (5); assuming that SARS-CoV-2 has a similar size, surgical masks are unlikely to effectively filter this virus."

 

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-1342

Why do you keep repeating this bullshit?  No one has been claiming that masks keep you from getting corona virus, only that it slows the spread from the wearer of the mask. A lot of people with the virus are asymptomatic, and the masks can keep you from spreading to others if that is the case.

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19 minutes ago, Mano said:

Why do you keep repeating this bullshit?> No one has been claiming that masks keep you from getting corona virus, only that it slows the spread from the wearer of the mask. A lot of people with the virus are asymptomatic, and the masks can keep you from spreading to others if that is the case.

You're the same sort of person who'd be clamoring for Jews to wear armbands in Nazi Germany because it was "good for them"...you'd have been a "Good German" back then.

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27 minutes ago, Mano said:

Why do you keep repeating this bullshit?> No one has been claiming that masks keep you from getting corona virus, only that it slows the spread from the wearer of the mask. A lot of people with the virus are asymptomatic, and the masks can keep you from spreading to others if that is the case.

Part of the problem is many people don’t understand the limitations of masks and get too close to others who may or may not have a mask on. They think it’s a safe barrier and it really isn’t. I’ve already had that happen with people walking right up to me since we both had masks on. 

I’m real nervous about going to get a haircut with a masked barber right on top of you. About all you can hope for is they stay behind you and then go home and take a thorough shower. 

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