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Corona Virus - How bad is it going to be?

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This democrat hits the nail on the head. If you are college aged, you literally have a better chance of being killed by lightening. Opening up should be you can do whatever you want and basically lock up old people til the rest of us get infected and better.

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18 hours ago, soupslam1 said:

I wear a cloth mask in stores, and around other people, however, I question how effective it is. I think some people have a false sense of security that they can’t get the virus because they have a mask on. The microscopic virus can easily pass through a cloth mask and can attach to another persons face or eyes even if they have a mask on. 

It's there to slow your exhalation and catch small water droplets. 

11 hours ago, modestobulldog said:

Virtue signalling.

What do you think your resistance to masks is?

4 hours ago, modestobulldog said:

If one is healthy, yes. It is merely virtue signalling.

How does anyone know if they're healthy? This is like the primary issue of the virus!

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48 minutes ago, happycamper said:

What do you think your resistance to masks is?

Normalcy.

How does anyone know if they're healthy?

Absent symptoms, I assume that I am healthy. I get a physical every year.

This is like the primary issue of the virus!

Nonsense, 35 years working for the same company, I don't readily recall anybody admitting they were sick at work despite coughing, hacking, sneezing, etc. It's always "allergies". My b******* detector suspects these asymptomatic people are lying.

 

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Masks do not replace the need for social distancing. They are one more barrier that can help stop the spread when used WITH social distancing.

 

It's not a big ask and the push against it is ridiculous. Just wear the damn things. 

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As for the whole reopen argument

 

Fauci's recommendations are based on data, on facts and on decades of experience.

Trump really doesn't know sh*t about it, he just wants things back open, to hell with the preventable deaths and disabilities. He's fixated on it only kills old people and they're expendable.

That assertion is wrong. We are seeing serious illness and deaths across all ages including children. NO ONE is expendable. The lack of morality and humanity is mind boggling at this point. 

 

Hands up for who wants to volunteer themselves, their family and their friends so we can open an economy that 1 really only benefits the 5% and 2 the uncontrolled tsunami that will hit our health care providers when this goes out of control again.

 

You will not have a viable economy until there is a plan and science based decisions on the when and how of this.

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39 minutes ago, modestobulldog said:

 

Modesto, you are deliberately lying to yourself and to me.

The main issue with the corona virus is that people are contagious for up to 3 weeks with no symptoms. That's like the thing people know about it! That's why it is hard to stop! FFS dude. I'll discuss things but at this point you don't give a flying +++++ about facts. you're just a political tool.

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1 hour ago, mysfit said:

As for the whole reopen argument

 

Fauci's recommendations are based on data, on facts and on decades of experience.

Trump really doesn't know sh*t about it, he just wants things back open, to hell with the preventable deaths and disabilities. He's fixated on it only kills old people and they're expendable.

That assertion is wrong. We are seeing serious illness and deaths across all ages including children. NO ONE is expendable. The lack of morality and humanity is mind boggling at this point. 

 

Hands up for who wants to volunteer themselves, their family and their friends so we can open an economy that 1 really only benefits the 5% and 2 the uncontrolled tsunami that will hit our health care providers when this goes out of control again.

 

You will not have a viable economy until there is a plan and science based decisions on the when and how of this.

WTF are you talking about? Working is what allows millions to feed and take care of their families. They also pay taxes which funds the government. 

As much as you would like, the government can’t keep providing checks to everyone until a vaccine is developed

Stick to medicine, it’s obvious you know nothing about economics. 

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That's essentially the problem.  The government can't take care of it's people and it's people are being forced to choose between supporting their families and risking their health or the health of their loved ones.

Throw out the crazy far right people who have hijacked the movement--there are still legitimately hundreds of thousands of people (if not more) who aren't going to make it another month or two in the current environment.

An informal poll on my social media shows that my friends that are single, and/or have stable jobs that can work from home, etc.  are advocating staying at home.  Those who have families, or lost their job or can't make ends meet all want things to reopen.

Also a note on masks: It doesn't need to be 100% effective.  Multiple models have shown that if 80% of the population wore masks that were 50-60% effective, we would pretty much quash the spread of this in no time.

 

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33 minutes ago, WAC_FAN said:

That's essentially the problem.  The government can't take care of it's people and it's people are being forced to choose between supporting their families and risking their health or the health of their loved ones.

Throw out the crazy far right people who have hijacked the movement--there are still legitimately hundreds of thousands of people (if not more) who aren't going to make it another month or two in the current environment.

An informal poll on my social media shows that my friends that are single, and/or have stable jobs that can work from home, etc.  are advocating staying at home.  Those who have families, or lost their job or can't make ends meet all want things to reopen.

Also a note on masks: It doesn't need to be 100% effective.  Multiple models have shown that if 80% of the population wore masks that were 50-60% effective, we would pretty much quash the spread of this in no time.

 

You were doing well until you got to the last paragraph. I wish it was that easy.

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1 hour ago, soupslam1 said:

You were doing well until you got to the last paragraph. I wish it was that easy.

It's not easy.  Try getting 80% of Americans to do anything....

 

One such model is the maskin simulator which anyone can play with:

https://www1.icsi.berkeley.edu/~dekai/mirror/masksim/

Their paper is in peer review.

Article on it: (there are several)

https://cbsaustin.com/news/nation-world/covid-19-cases-would-plummet-if-80-of-americans-wore-face-masks-study-says

 

 

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16 hours ago, soupslam1 said:

Cal State Universities are all going online in the fall. So are the K-12 Cali school going to follow suit? Can you differentiate because of age? 

Also, how many college students normally enrolled will skip the fall semester? Which in turn could trigger mass professor layoffs. 

A lot of it depends on the type of funding a district gets. Schools in rich socioeconomic areas can afford chromebooks and the ability for students to work from home. Schools in poor socioeconomic areas can maybe afford chromebooks for the high school students, but not middle schools or elementary. Schools might be looking at staggered start times where some students start in the morning while others start their school day in the afternoon that will involve night classes with teachers tag-teaming in shifts throughout the day. We are already hearing reports in districts talking about deep cuts to arts, sports, clubs, electives, classroom aids, teacher layoffs and furloughs. It's going to get ugly.

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some potential good news

 

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17 hours ago, mysfit said:

As for the whole reopen argument

 

Fauci's recommendations are based on data, on facts and on decades of experience.

Trump really doesn't know sh*t about it, he just wants things back open, to hell with the preventable deaths and disabilities. He's fixated on it only kills old people and they're expendable.

That assertion is wrong. We are seeing serious illness and deaths across all ages including children. NO ONE is expendable. The lack of morality and humanity is mind boggling at this point. 

 

Hands up for who wants to volunteer themselves, their family and their friends so we can open an economy that 1 really only benefits the 5% and 2 the uncontrolled tsunami that will hit our health care providers when this goes out of control again.

 

You will not have a viable economy until there is a plan and science based decisions on the when and how of this.

Data is a fluid entity hence the changes in Fauci's stance on masks and the severity of the pandemic. Decades of experience means little since this is a novel virus. He's a great spokesperson but I agree with Rand Paul that his opinions aren't the end all and shouldn't be the sole determinant in policy as the science and data change from day to day. Obviously the epidemiologist have much to add to the equation but there are many more factors with regard to the  health of the population than just this virus. Opening the economy affects way more than the 5 percent considering 36 million people have been laid off and likely will continue to increase over the next few months not to mention the major hit to retirement accounts and retirement pensions for all our seniors.

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There will be no economic rebound without first controlling the health issues.

This isn't and either or.

It's a one is necessary for 2 to be successful 

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Let me put it another way

Everyone has likely heard that a number of meatpacking plants shut down because of high numbers of workers contracting COVID-19. 

Which led to talks of shortages so the small fingered vulgarian labeled it a necessary to security function.

Of course that doesn't matter if more and more workers become I'll and simply cannot work.

Now scale that out across all of society and ask how long we can function. Around 0.7% have antibodies, and it has yet to be determined at what level if any that provides immunity. This bug is highly contagious. It won't take long to overwhelm healthcare and deplete the workforce.

How well is an already damaged economy going to recover?

It isn't either/or

It is one requires the other. A healthy economy requires healthy people.

The numbers have come down thanks to isolating. We end the isolation without adequate testing and tracing and we turn that curve right back to a steep climb.

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1 hour ago, NMpackalum said:

Data is a fluid entity hence the changes in Fauci's stance on masks and the severity of the pandemic. Decades of experience means little since this is a novel virus. He's a great spokesperson but I agree with Rand Paul that his opinions aren't the end all and shouldn't be the sole determinant in policy as the science and data change from day to day. Obviously the epidemiologist have much to add to the equation but there are many more factors with regard to the  health of the population than just this virus. Opening the economy affects way more than the 5 percent considering 36 million people have been laid off and likely will continue to increase over the next few months not to mention the major hit to retirement accounts and retirement pensions for all our seniors.

Fauci simply gives his educated opinion and recommendation based on 50+ years as a doctor and health professional. Is there anyone more qualified from a health perspective than him? NO

Is he the end all for things economic? NO  Has he ever claimed to be? Not that I've ever heard.

The problem is this administration is scared as f**k when someone tells it like it is. How many dozens of people have been fired by Trump simply because they had a differing opinion. We've witnessed it nearly every month during in his administration. Good leaders surround themselves with people who aren't afraid to disagree with them. Instead we have a child in office who is in constant need of his ego being stroked.

At some point Fauci will either get fired or god forbid some nut job will take him out (they've already had to beef up his security). Fortunately, Trump hasn't canned him yet.

Fauci has to tip toe around this administration because he doesn't have the tools he needs. If we had massive testing we could actually see where we stand and what the risks are. We don't have the testing to do that, and probably never will.  How awesome would it be if college football players had the ability to be tested daily. We could open up Summer camps tomorrow if that were the case.

 

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3 hours ago, Del Scorcho said:

some potential good news

 

And the sun will come up tomorrow, brilliant. I've been saying for weeks, this social distancing outdoors is crap. But there should be no restrictions outside, no requirement to wear masks. No restrictions on where people go, or what they do outdoors as related to current virus related prohibitions.

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11 minutes ago, Del Scorcho said:

Fauci simply gives his educated opinion and recommendation based on 50+ years as a doctor and health professional. Is there anyone more qualified from a health perspective than him? NO

Is he the end all for things economic? NO  Has he ever claimed to be? Not that I've ever heard.

The problem is this administration is scared as f**k when someone tells it like it is. How many dozens of people have been fired by Trump simply because they had a differing opinion. We've witnessed it nearly every month during in his administration. Good leaders surround themselves with people who aren't afraid to disagree with them. Instead we have a child in office who is in constant need of his ego being stroked.

At some point Fauci will either get fired or god forbid some nut job will take him out (they've already had to beef up his security). Fortunately, Trump hasn't canned him yet.

Fauci has to tip toe around this administration because he doesn't have the tools he needs. If we had massive testing we could actually see where we stand and what the risks are. We don't have the testing to do that, and probably never will.  How awesome would it be if college football players had the ability to be tested daily. We could open up Summer camps tomorrow if that were the case.

 

I don't disagree. Faucci is as qualified a person that there is. He's never claimed it but the anti Trumpers certainly use him as the definitive alternative voice to Trump.  Trump may be all those things you and others say but it's ridiculous to say that they aren't doing their best they can within the limitations. Trump is his own worse enemy when he opens his mouth with his claims. Testing kits are readily available now, too bad we can't get the swabs to use the kits. This is going to be with us for a long time. I'm not holding my breath for an effective vaccine for the next couple of years if ever, considering the fastest vaccine development to date is 4 years and we've never been able to develop a vaccine for other corona viruses. We've better be able to figure out how to live with it until herd immunity decreases the prevalence.

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On 5/13/2020 at 12:06 PM, modestobulldog said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am not following your logic. I asked the question if not wearing a mask was the equivalent of murder. It seems like in this dialogue, you are stating that it is the equivalent of being a murderer, rapist, or drug dealer.

Jeebus. lighten up a bit, will ya? You and Bob have been inching toward the cliff on this issue and now almost have one foot over it. (Don't know why the software didn't pick up all the rest of your post. Whatever.)

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38 minutes ago, modestobulldog said:

And the sun will come up tomorrow, brilliant. I've been saying for weeks, this social distancing outdoors is crap. But there should be no restrictions outside, no requirement to wear masks. No restrictions on where people go, or what they do outdoors as related to current virus related prohibitions.

this is exactly why we have more cases than all of Europe combined, because we have a select few Americans who are dumb as f*#k that will ruin it for everyone else.

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