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Corona Virus - How bad is it going to be?

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1 hour ago, soupslam1 said:

Interesting that we flattened the curve to prevent hospitals from being overrun and now hospitals are laying people off. 

Yah.

Well, whatever, I don't have the energy to relitigate the shutdown adnauseum.  So lets worry about how we fix the situation we are in now.  The sooner we stop digging, the better.  They need to start allowing elective procedures in most places right now.  

There was all this urgency to go to quarentine, but there doesn't seem to much urgency about the million jobs a day that are being lost.  The big myth here is that the jobs are all going to magically reappear when they open things up again.

This is a good article from an economist. I don't know what the dudes politics are.

https://m.startribune.com/a-month-into-mass-quarantine-what-now/569933882/?refresh=true

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56 minutes ago, Del Scorcho said:

this cant possibly be true can it?

Army TImes has more details. In the full article Army Times even mentions that West Point's hospital has been set up with a new ICU with 6 ventilators (the hospital previously only did ER and elective surgery and had no ventilators).

Quote

The U.S. Military Academy at West Point, New York, intends to test all cadets returning to graduate in June for the novel coronavirus using two new GeneXpert devices procured after the academy established a planning group in mid-March to determine how the process would work.

The return will be similar to how the Army has been bringing new recruits into basic training, according to a West Point spokesman. The planning group has also received input from Training and Doctrine Command on that process.

Cadets will return to campus in small, staggered groups. They’ll be paced in hard structures in the summer training area and wait there for tests results to come back, which should be the same day the swab is taken.

“If they come back clean, they’ll come on campus to their dorm room, and we’re calling it a soft quarantine,” said West Point spokesman Lt. Col. Christopher Ophardt.

https://www.armytimes.com/news/coronavirus/2020/04/24/west-point-plans-to-mass-test-and-soft-quarantine-cadets-coming-back-to-graduate/

 

 

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11 hours ago, NVGiant said:

Sort of. The more cautious part is specifically why I agree with him. I’m going to share my thoughts about Oregon, since every state is different and it’s what I know. Here, the numbers are really low so we’re in a good position, and we’ve never really had the hardline policing tactics you describe in your county. Social distancing needs to continue. Masks need to be worn in public, too, with some sort of enforcement mechanism, though I admit that is problematic. Office workers that can should continue to work at home, or at least be given the option of working from home without reprisal, for the foreseeable future. I’d say test and some good-faith effort to trace, too, but we’re nowhere near that. I think the outdoors need to open up now (here state parks and national forest trailheads have all closed.) Not sure they ever needed to close, as things like golf courses have remained open with no issues. Things like elective surgeries need to start up again, which is happening on May 1 here (though my wife, who works in what many consider the most at-risk profession outside of frontline medical workers, is not thrilled to have to go back just yet). Restaurants, particularly those with outdoor seating and space to spread tables out, should open soon. Retail needs to reopen fully. Both with guidelines for store owners to operate safely (the market will take care of those who don’t act responsibly).  After that, follow the numbers. If things continue to be manageable, err on the side of opening up.

I think large crowds are a ways away though. Movie theaters, concerts, and sporting events—other than SJSU games (:P)—are too likely to be super spreader events. And that’s going to lead to another shutdown. Vulnerable people, unfortunately, will have to remain at home. Though it’s their choice to take the risk.

I agree with a lot of this post, but not all of it.

I take issue with the idea of people that can work from home should.  There is something fundamentally wrong and unfair about that, as well as counterproductive.  70 something percent of people can't work from home.  Bill Gates is pushing the idea that manufacturing, education, and construction should go back to work soon because they are "high value".  So how is that supposed to work?  Factory workers all go to work, and white collar workers all stay at home?  What about the DMV?  Are they going to reopen, or do they stay at home and get paid (in many cases more) than the "high value" manufacturing worker?

Our school district changed the free lunches to one day a week distribution in the name of safety.  But the people growing and picking the food they are giving out don't have that luxury, do they?

I thought we were supposed to all be in this together?  

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2 hours ago, CPslograd said:

Yah.

Well, whatever, I don't have the energy to relitigate the shutdown adnauseum.  So lets worry about how we fix the situation we are in now.  The sooner we stop digging, the better.  They need to start allowing elective procedures in most places right now.  

There was all this urgency to go to quarentine, but there doesn't seem to much urgency about the million jobs a day that are being lost.  The big myth here is that the jobs are all going to magically reappear when they open things up again.

This is a good article from an economist. I don't know what the dudes politics are.

https://m.startribune.com/a-month-into-mass-quarantine-what-now/569933882/?refresh=true

A common sense perspective.  Increased poverty across the globe will claim more lives than C19.

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32 minutes ago, CPslograd said:

I agree with a lot of this post, but not all of it.

I take issue with the idea of people that can work from home should.  There is something fundamentally wrong and unfair about that, as well as counterproductive.  70 something percent of people can't work from home.  Bill Gates is pushing the idea that manufacturing, education, and construction should go back to work soon because they are "high value".  So how is that supposed to work?  Factory workers all go to work, and white collar workers all stay at home?  What about the DMV?  Are they going to reopen, or do they stay at home and get paid (in many cases more) than the "high value" manufacturing worker?

Our school district changed the free lunches to one day a week distribution in the name of safety.  But the people growing and picking the food they are giving out don't have that luxury, do they?

I thought we were supposed to all be in this together?  

Do you want to restart the economy or do you want to make a political point? You angry because this is hitting some harder than others? Get in +++++ing line. Welcome to America. 

give me a +++++ing break. 

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7 hours ago, ridgeview2 said:

Same with my area. I'm lucky that I can work from home but I know a lot of people who have lost everything and don't qualify for the stimulus check. My uncle is one of those people who went out to protest because his business is closed, he doesn't qualify for stimulus, his unemployment hasn't arrived and neither has the small business loan. He is selling furniture and unused items to keep the lights on and food on the table. He's a prideful man so it was hard to convince him to accept our family donations, but it's getting to the point where he's starting to break down. It's not about pride, it's survival and I'm glad he's finally starting to realize that. 

I'm also starting go see unfamiliar faces in the neighborhood, one of the positives about where I live is being on a cul-de-sac. Everyone knows everybody and we look out for eachother.

We have to come together.  People are reaching out.  My offer to contribute to a go fund-me for your uncle still stands.   

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48 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

Do you want to restart the economy or do you want to make a political point? You angry because this is hitting some harder than others? Get in +++++ing line. Welcome to America. 

give me a +++++ing break. 

No kidding.  Some of us fortunate to still be working are donating to those who can’t, are spending money on restaurants we normally wouldn’t spend.   
 

So to fall in line with @CPslograd teams shit I guess we should all just quit instead of trying to help our community.  

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While many are protesting to go back to work, it looks like the Cali crowd said to hell with Newsom. I’m going to the beach.

Thousands of Californians throughout Southern California have been flocking to open beaches in Orange County, despite Democrat Gov. Gavin Newsom’s stay-at-home order due to a heat wave.

Many of the beachgoers appeared to be less than six feet apart, and many were not wearing masks. Newport Beach-area lifeguards estimated at least 40,000 beachgoers on Friday — double the amount they saw the day before.

Newsom said he expected the state’s beaches to see “a significant increase in volume” due to the heat wave, and pleaded for those beachgoers to practice proper social distancing.

California has a total of 39,867 active coronavirus cases, with 1,684 deaths as of Sunday.

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8 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

While many are protesting to go back to work, it looks like the Cali crowd said to hell with Newsom. I’m going to the beach.

Thousands of Californians throughout Southern California have been flocking to open beaches in Orange County, despite Democrat Gov. Gavin Newsom’s stay-at-home order due to a heat wave.

Many of the beachgoers appeared to be less than six feet apart, and many were not wearing masks. Newport Beach-area lifeguards estimated at least 40,000 beachgoers on Friday — double the amount they saw the day before.

Newsom said he expected the state’s beaches to see “a significant increase in volume” due to the heat wave, and pleaded for those beachgoers to practice proper social distancing.

California has a total of 39,867 active coronavirus cases, with 1,684 deaths as of Sunday.

It’s not like he is being a hardliner and arresting people.  Getting out is fine just be smart about it...

 

1DA4469E-C5EB-47FD-B1C2-0437171A3C3A.png

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3 hours ago, CPslograd said:

Yah.

Well, whatever, I don't have the energy to relitigate the shutdown adnauseum.  So lets worry about how we fix the situation we are in now.  The sooner we stop digging, the better.  They need to start allowing elective procedures in most places right now.  

There was all this urgency to go to quarentine, but there doesn't seem to much urgency about the million jobs a day that are being lost.  The big myth here is that the jobs are all going to magically reappear when they open things up again.

This is a good article from an economist. I don't know what the dudes politics are.

https://m.startribune.com/a-month-into-mass-quarantine-what-now/569933882/?refresh=true

Yes it is a good article but it also includes 

Other countries have shown we can protect against overwhelming our hospitals without shutting down the economy. We can allow individuals and businesses to make their own decisions on balancing risks. While not perfect, such private voluntary actions will slow infection rates. Policies of aggressive testing, tracing and isolating slow infection rates as well.

 

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17 minutes ago, sactowndog said:

It’s not like he is being a hardliner and arresting people.  Getting out is fine just be smart about it...

 

1DA4469E-C5EB-47FD-B1C2-0437171A3C3A.png

 
 
Three people were arrested Saturday for going to a closed beach in the San Diego area to protest the county’s stay-at-home order and beach shutdowns, deputies said.

The San Diego County Sheriff’s Office said about 75 to 100 people showed up to protest at Moonlight Beach in Encinitas, and three of the protesters were arrested for refusing to comply with state and county public health orders.

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2 hours ago, NVGiant said:

Do you want to restart the economy or do you want to make a political point? You angry because this is hitting some harder than others? Get in +++++ing line. Welcome to America. 

give me a +++++ing break. 

Seriously, that's your response? 

It's not even practical.  It's not ethical either.

You think you are going to hold society together by having office workers stay home while blue collar workers go to work every day for an extended time period?   How long till they figure out this is bullshit and stay at home?  

That's not a hypothetical either.  About 10% of the workers at the plant quit or stopped coming to work.  And hiring is damn near impossible right now.  Try stretching this out for months and months.

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56 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:
 
 
Three people were arrested Saturday for going to a closed beach in the San Diego area to protest the county’s stay-at-home order and beach shutdowns, deputies said.

The San Diego County Sheriff’s Office said about 75 to 100 people showed up to protest at Moonlight Beach in Encinitas, and three of the protesters were arrested for refusing to comply with state and county public health orders.

Why are you blaming him for over the top Sheriffs in SD? 

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1 hour ago, sactowndog said:

No kidding.  Some of us fortunate to still be working are donating to those who can’t, are spending money on restaurants we normally wouldn’t spend.   
 

So to fall in line with @CPslograd teams shit I guess we should all just quit instead of trying to help our community.  

By your own admission you are working out of your house and not doing sales calls.  People like you are on your high horse about Stay Home Save Lives, meanwhile the only reason you can do that is because others aren't.  

You seem to think it is somehow going to be sustainable for you to stay in a bubble while the people producing goods are not.  If you haven't noticed, the supply chain is stressed.  We are creating incentives for people not to go to work, which adds to the difficulty  in maintaining production.  Do you know how hard it is to get installers or techs to go to San Francisco or LA right now?  And you guys want to have white collar workers stay at home indefinitely and expect them to do their jobs?  Ridiculous.

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On 4/15/2020 at 3:49 PM, smltwnrckr said:

I would attend one of those meetings.

As a journo or applicant? :P

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8 hours ago, CPslograd said:

Seriously, that's your response? 

It's not even practical.  It's not ethical either.

You think you are going to hold society together by having office workers stay home while blue collar workers go to work every day for an extended time period?   How long till they figure out this is bullshit and stay at home?  

That's not a hypothetical either.  About 10% of the workers at the plant quit or stopped coming to work.  And hiring is damn near impossible right now.  Try stretching this out for months and months.

Seriously, that is your response? Your position is borderline indefensible. Truth is until the virus is eradicated it would be best if everyone stayed home. But as it were, some people can and some people can’t, including my wife who will be far more at-risk than a field worker. It is what it is. Sending office workers unnecessarily into work, just because a Republican finally noticed that not everything in America is fair and that many are exploited, will only help the spread. 

I recognize that without a restart soon the economy would implode. But some jobs you can do from home and some you can’t. And I have no clue how a small-government conservative, one who has been clamoring for a reopening since this started, is suddenly going to force office workers to come into work if their company doesn’t deem it necessary. Not only would it not be legal, it doesn’t make any sense. It’s just a pure political grudge on your end. Furthermore, I also don’t think it’s fair or ethical that the workers you champion now have less access to affordable health care than white collar workers, aren’t offered sick leave, generally have a lower life expectancy, don’t have better access to affordable, quality child care, and are inhumanely used, along with their families, as a political football in a never-ending debate over immigration, and so on. You going to do something about that now? 

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17 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

Seriously, that is your response? Your position is borderline indefensible. Truth is until the virus is eradicated it would be best if everyone stayed home. But as it were, some people can and some people can’t, including my wife who will be far more at-risk than a field worker.  it is what it is. Sending office workers unnecessarily into work, just because a Republican finally noticed that not everything in America is fair, will only help the spread. 

Truth is, if we could I wouldn’t send anybody to work until this is over, but the economy would implode and some jobs you can do from home and some you can’t. And I have no clue how a small-government conservative, one who has been clamoring for a reopening since this started, is suddenly going to force office workers to come into work if their company doesn’t deem it necessary. Not only would it not be legal, it doesn’t make any sense. It’s just a pure political grudge on your end. Furthermore, I also don’t think it’s fair or ethical that the workers you champion now have less access to affordable health care than white collar workers, aren’t offered sick leave, generally have a lower life expectancy, and are in humanely used, along with their families, as a political football in a never-ending debate over immigration, and so on. You going to do something about that now? 

I agree with a lot of what you said.  Some not so much.  However I will say the idea that everybody should get back to the office because it is only fair everybody risk spreading the disease or getting the disease is ridiculous.  Why shouldn't old factory workers quit and look for safer work during the pandemic?  You want everybody back in the office so the incentive for that factory worker to find safer income is not there?  +++++ out here.  Welcome to capitalism and a free market.  @CPslograd if you want, I am sure many of us on this board can find your out of work employees nice, comfy work from home jobs.  Let us know.

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2 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

I agree with a lot of what you said.  Some not so much.  However I will say the idea that everybody should get back to the office because it is only fair everybody risk spreading the disease or getting the disease because it is fair is ridiculous.  And why shouldn't old factory workers quit and look for safer work during the pandemic?  You want everybody back in the office so the incentive for that factory worker to find safer income is not there?  +++++ out here.  Welcome to capitalism and a free market.  @CPslograd if you want, I am sure many of us on this board can find your out of work employees nice, comfy work from home jobs.  Let us know.

I don’t have the answers to all of these questions, try as I might. But I am looking through the prism of restarting the economy while trying to minimize the spread. I am certainly not trying to reward office workers just because. Nor am I trying to punish workers who can’t work from home. But sending workers into offices unnecessarily will make things worse, not better, for everybody.

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