halfmanhalfbronco Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 57 minutes ago, bsu_alum9 said: Not sure what you’re getting at? People who’ve studied bat coronavirus and human transmission for decades shouldn’t be able to research that anymore because of an unfounded hypothesis about a virus leaking out of a lab? +++++ that. It is not unfounded and is currently the only logical explanation. Where the +++++ are the intermediary species?!?!?! Over 300 species have been tested and we came up with nothing. We found the camels in MERS and the civics in SARS1 in months. This clearly came out of the lab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfmanhalfbronco Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 40 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said: Studying is a very benign way to put it, so let me break it down for you. If we ever find the real cause, either way, the wisdom we should take sends us in two entirely different directions with each scenario. If it’s a lab leak from experimentally making a virus more susceptible to spread in humans (which we know they were doing), we can’t allow that kind of research anymore in first rate countries. The risk is too great, the devastation too enormous, and the value gained from such study amounts to zero. Next time could be worse. If we do ever find the likely animal culprit populations, we would need more of the type of lab research we’re talking about. What we didn’t know about this virus was devastating. Next time could be worse. Gain of function research is fine...if done in L4 labs. L2? +++++ you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawlorfaithful Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 Just now, halfmanhalfbronco said: Gain of function research is fine...if done in L4 labs. L2? +++++ you. No dude. All of the deaths from nuclear weapons and accidents are less than a tenth of Covid so far, and the rest of the world still has another year and multiple waves to go. A lab escape scenario is a nuclear proliferation type problem that needs to be addressed. Quote We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfmanhalfbronco Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said: No dude. All of the deaths from nuclear weapons and accidents are less than a tenth of Covid so far, and the rest of the world still has another year and multiple waves to go. A lab escape scenario is a nuclear proliferation type problem that needs to be addressed. In an L4...just not going to happen. The gap in security between L4 and 2 is like the gap between a horse and buggy and Space X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawlorfaithful Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 8 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said: In an L4...just not going to happen. The gap in security between L4 and 2 is like the gap between a horse and buggy and Space X 1 Quote We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfmanhalfbronco Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 Just now, thelawlorfaithful said: What a horrible franchise and movie. But no, seriously, the best L4 labs are tight as hell. Nothing is getting out. An L2 lab is like, well my old pediatricians office. The fact gain of function research for coronaviruses was allowed to take place in one is infuriating and the world should be rioting about it....but, you know, the WHO cleared em. +++++ers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soupslam1 Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 On 5/12/2021 at 1:55 PM, Old_SD_Dude said: If you read about the situation in Mexico you woud find that the only covid deaths that are counted are people that die in hospitals. Covid deaths in Mexico have been massively undercounted all along. And we have massively over counted all along. If you had a heart attack it was Covid that killed you. Our hospitals all got kick backs for the number of Covid cases reported so every death was due to Covid. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old_SD_Dude Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 6 minutes ago, soupslam1 said: And we have massively over counted all along. If you had a heart attack it was Covid that killed you. Our hospitals all got kick backs for the number of Covid cases reported so every death was due to Covid. 1 Quote Thay Haif Said: Quhat Say Thay? Lat Thame Say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawlorfaithful Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 25 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said: What a horrible franchise and movie. But no, seriously, the best L4 labs are tight as hell. Nothing is getting out. An L2 lab is like, well my old pediatricians office. The fact gain of function research for coronaviruses was allowed to take place in one is infuriating and the world should be rioting about it....but, you know, the WHO cleared em. +++++ers. I will not acknowledge a Kpop Stan throwing any shade towards the OG Jurassic Park or Jeff Goldbloom. Ridiculous. Labs, even the most secure, must be run by people. People will always be fallible. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cdc-botched-handling-of-deadly-flu-virus/ 2 Quote We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smltwnrckr Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said: I will not acknowledge a Kpop Stan throwing any shade towards the OG Jurassic Park or Jeff Goldbloom. Ridiculous. Labs, even the most secure, must be run by people. People will always be fallible. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cdc-botched-handling-of-deadly-flu-virus/ I dont think chaos theory has that much to do with the fallibility of people though. Quote Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfmanhalfbronco Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said: I will not acknowledge a Kpop Stan throwing any shade towards the OG Jurassic Park or Jeff Goldbloom. Ridiculous. Labs, even the most secure, must be run by people. People will always be fallible. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cdc-botched-handling-of-deadly-flu-virus/ Risk vs Reward. Gain of function research in theory provides a lot of knowledge. But yeah....I feel ya. Anybody who thinks it is more likely than not that SARS2 came about either naturally from bats directly or from an intermediary species is looking like clown shoes right now. This came from the lab. That is where the logic points. We just disagree on if gain of function should be allowed to be researched. I think yes, but only in the strictest environments and only for certain disease types. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawlorfaithful Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 10 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said: I dont think chaos theory has that much to do with the fallibility of people though. Humans are a nonlinear equation. Quote We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smltwnrckr Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said: Humans are a nonlinear equation. No more than anything else. But fair enough. Humans are part of chaos... just not the center of it. You know they call chaos and complexity the postmodern sciences right? Quote Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smltwnrckr Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 Also, this thread is more than 700 pages. Wow. 1 Quote Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfmanhalfbronco Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said: No more than anything else. But fair enough. Humans are part of chaos... just not the center of it. You know they call chaos and complexity the postmodern sciences right? Second law of thermo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smltwnrckr Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 1 minute ago, halfmanhalfbronco said: Second law of thermo? I dunno. The stuff I read is largely in ecology and socio-natural systems. Physics might as well be greek to me. But I imagine some of the ideas apply? Fractal math is badass though. Quote Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawlorfaithful Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said: No more than anything else. But fair enough. Humans are part of chaos... just not the center of it. You know they call chaos and complexity the postmodern sciences right? What they call them means nothing to me. Unless they are Jeff Goldbloom. 1 Quote We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smltwnrckr Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 4 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said: What they call them means nothing to me. Unless they are Jeff Goldbloom. Lol. So if I get Jeff Goldbloom to tell you about how everything is the product of discourse, you'll listen? 1 Quote Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawlorfaithful Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 4 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said: Lol. So if I get Jeff Goldbloom to tell you about how everything is the product of discourse, you'll listen? Punch yourself in the balls Quote We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smltwnrckr Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 Just now, thelawlorfaithful said: Punch yourself in the balls Discourse...... 1 Quote Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...