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bornontheblue

Corona Virus - How bad is it going to be?

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By the way, I want to point out that I think people who don't wear masks are being stupid and selfish. I'm not trying to chuck bombs. And I think the right-wing response to this has been incredibly frustrating and is very much part of the problem. But it is PART of the shit soup we're in, and an unwillingness on the part of the people who made the initial lockdown decisions and who are making the decisions now (and those scolding the scofflaws unambiguously for doing public activities not deemed righteous or moral enough) is also a big part of the problem. I would argue a bigger part, but I will accept that it is an arguable point. But I'm getting sick of the people who are making these rules as we go along +++++ing up, every step of the way, in ways that are clearly predictable, not taking any accountability, expecting everyone to continue to listen to everything they say and expecting people to feel ashamed when they stop paying attention. 

My own frustrations (which are real and as righteous as anyone else's) on this aside - mark my words. People will take less time to stop paying attention to these shutdowns than they did last time. And the same will be true for the next round. By Christmas, if there isn't another round of social unrest and mass shows of civil disobedience, we will be in a place where people will be doing what they do and communities will be figuring it out on their own. The epidemiologists should have planned for THAT as the likely outcome from the beginning. If they had done that, they would have been able to come up with a much more effective and sustainable plan. 

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Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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8 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

If there was any recognition of the vast social costs, and an actual attempt to mitigate them that involved people who actually understood them, then I would be more receptive to daddy. Sometimes little Timmy is f*cking around because Daddy +++++ed up at the front end. Maybe Daddy should do some reflecting himself.

Okay, I've been thinking offline and I think we are making somewhat separate overall points, as is common in these forums. I agree 100% on the sociological damage that is occurring and what the consequences are of it. I fully acknowledge it and do not discount it's severity. I think we also agree a big part of the problem is the uncertainty.

So going to online schools, cancelling sports, etc. buys a little certainty for a while. I think it's time to rip the band aid off. I think this is the  quickest and least overall painful way to solve the epidemiological and social problems you are talking about.

 

 

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31 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

5eecf9d694150.image.jpg?resize=1200,800

 

Is this freedumb culture? If it is, then maybe I'll agree with you. 

Sure. Why not? It’s not as ironic as protesting the very thing that will give you freedom, but the effect is similar.

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39 minutes ago, toonkee said:

Okay, I've been thinking offline and I think we are making somewhat separate overall points, as is common in these forums. I agree 100% on the sociological damage that is occurring and what the consequences are of it. I fully acknowledge it and do not discount it's severity. I think we also agree a big part of the problem is the uncertainty.

So going to online schools, cancelling sports, etc. buys a little certainty for a while. I think it's time to rip the band aid off. I think this is the  quickest and least overall painful way to solve the epidemiological and social problems you are talking about.

 

 

I think sports being cancelled is inevitable, if a bummer. I just think that going to remote schooling means the majority of kids missing a year if education because most districts can't do it effectively and many can't donit at all. Let alone the kids in the schools that can sort of pull it off but who will not be able to do it in any meaningful way because they dont have the same resources. I think you're realistically looking at more than half of americas school kids basically not getting an education for a year and a half, most of whom will revert even further back. Combined with about 20 percent or so of the most well off kids pretty much getting a good year of school remotely. That is an enor.ous social cost... and it doesn't even take into the impacts in families.

I just think there has to be a better answer.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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34 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

Sure. Why not? It’s not as ironic as protesting the very thing that will give you freedom, but the effect is similar.

Fair enough... but I do have a problem with a morally ok and morally not ok reason to go out into public being enforced via the state and cable news. Which is what is happening. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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23 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

Fair enough... but I do have a problem with a morally ok and morally not ok reason to go out into public being enforced via the state and cable news. Which is what is happening. 

Sure. But also, wear a mask in public places.

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32 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

I think sports being cancelled is inevitable, if a bummer. I just think that going to remote schooling means the majority of kids missing a year if education because most districts can't do it effectively and many can't donit at all. Let alone the kids in the schools that can sort of pull it off but who will not be able to do it in any meaningful way because they dont have the same resources. I think you're realistically looking at more than half of americas school kids basically not getting an education for a year and a half, most of whom will revert even further back. Combined with about 20 percent or so of the most well off kids pretty much getting a good year of school remotely. That is an enor.ous social cost... and it doesn't even take into the impacts in families.

I just think there has to be a better answer.

I'm all ears.

I have two school age children. I've been wrestling with what to do. If they go to school, I think the odds of them getting corona are very high...matter of time. Then me and my wife will certainly get it, and so on. Maybe it won't be so bad, maybe it will. My oldest son is entering middle school this year so I'm really not looking the idea of him entering a new phase with an online, lost year, but it was what it is. There are just no good answers.

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7 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

Sure. But also, wear a mask in public places.

Yes. But it seems clear that this is about large public and private gatherings as much about masks. At least to me. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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Just now, smltwnrckr said:

Yes. But it seems clear that this is about large public and private gatherings as much about masks. At least to me. 

Yeah. Stay away from those, too. And if you go to one, don’t complain about what others are doing wrong.

I wish this didn’t have to be so ideological, but it is. 

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5 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

Yeah. Stay away from those, too. And if you go to one, don’t complain about what others are doing wrong.

I wish this didn’t have to be so ideological, but it is. 

At the end of the day, though, some of those gatherings are essential cultural events. I'm going to a relatively small bbq in a week because my aunt is dying of pancreatic cancer and it will be the last time all the sisters and their kids will be together in one place. I dont apologize for telling the government to +++++ off when it comes to how my family handles this sort of thing. that's all I'm saying. I dont think we're far off here.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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46 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

At the end of the day, though, some of those gatherings are essential cultural events. I'm going to a relatively small bbq in a week because my aunt is dying of pancreatic cancer and it will be the last time all the sisters and their kids will be together in one place. I dont apologize for telling the government to +++++ off when it comes to how my family handles this sort of thing. that's all I'm saying. I dont think we're far off here.

I understand. And of course, I’m sorry. 

That said, I assume other industrialized nations are having similar gatherings. And they're making it work better than we are.

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26 minutes ago, renoskier said:

It looks good.

Dumbass should've done it months ago.

This is what I dont understand about right wingers being against masks. They make you look like a badass.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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1 minute ago, NVGiant said:

I understand. And of course, I’m sorry. 

I assume other industrialized nations are having similar gatherings. And they're making it work better than we are. 

I just used it as an example, but I think its relavent when we're talking about s moral threshold for essential gatherings. Which to be fair isnt what you're talking about, but is what some are talking about. 

I mean, is there another industrialized nation as big as ours that's not totalitarian? We're unique in a lot of ways. Freedom boner is one of them, but it's not the only one. Why didnt we try to tailor an approach that matches the values of the society?

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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I guess I just go back to what I’ve thought all along. Sometimes when we think we’re sticking it to the government all we’re really doing is shooting ourselves in the dick.

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Just now, smltwnrckr said:

I just used it as an example, but I think its relavent when we're talking about s moral threshold for essential gatherings. Which to be fair isnt what you're talking about, but is what some are talking about. 

I mean, is there another industrialized nation as big as ours that's not totalitarian? We're unique in a lot of ways. Freedom boner is one of them, but it's not the only one. Why didnt we try to tailor an approach that matches the values of the society?

And I add to this that people should wear masks... but I'm not convinced that is the biggest reason for this latest surge

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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10 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

I guess I just go back to what I’ve thought all along. Sometimes when we think we’re sticking it to the government all we’re really doing is shooting ourselves in the dick.

Sticking it to the government just for the sake of it is immature and stupid. I'll agree with that, even as someone who thinks that the government deserves to get stuck from time to time. 

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Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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1 minute ago, smltwnrckr said:

I just used it as an example, but I think its relavent when we're talking about s moral threshold for essential gatherings. Which to be fair isnt what you're talking about, but is what some are talking about. 

I mean, is there another industrialized nation as big as ours that's not totalitarian? We're unique in a lot of ways. Freedom boner is one of them, but it's not the only one. Why didnt we try to tailor an approach that matches the values of the society?

We’d need a leader to do that. We don’t have it. So we did the next-most American thing we could: we pushed responsibility down the line until there was nobody left to take any responsibility. And anyone who tried was either labeled a tyrant, if they work in government, or a sheep, if they were an individual who tried to do their part.

we’re a bigger country. But that doesn’t explain why we are performing so poorly. Western Europe is free with a larger, denser population and they are performing better even after they were hit harder initially.

As for our values? I don’t know what those are supposed to be anymore. Not wearing a mask in a pandemic like this isn’t about freedom. It’s the temper tantrum a 4 yo throws when they’re told to eat their vegetables. I don’t know what policy we could tailor that would work here when we can’t agree on the most basic protections. 

It’s not even about the government anymore. The virus doesn’t give a shit about our values. And whether individually we agree with it or not, collectively we’ve decided to say +++++ it and accept the consequences to our lives and our economy.

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