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bornontheblue

Corona Virus - How bad is it going to be?

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27 minutes ago, Mano said:

Why do you keep repeating this bullshit?> No one has been claiming that masks keep you from getting corona virus, only that it slows the spread from the wearer of the mask. A lot of people with the virus are asymptomatic, and the masks can keep you from spreading to others if that is the case.

Part of the problem is many people don’t understand the limitations of masks and get too close to others who may or may not have a mask on. They think it’s a safe barrier and it really isn’t. I’ve already had that happen with people walking right up to me since we both had masks on. 

I’m real nervous about going to get a haircut with a masked barber right on top of you. About all you can hope for is they stay behind you and then go home and take a thorough shower. 

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9 minutes ago, Joe from WY said:

You're the same sort of person who'd be clamoring for Jews to wear armbands in Nazi Germany because it was "good for them"...you'd have been a "Good German" back then.

Go +++++ yourself, you know nothing about me.

I'm a desperate man
Send lawyers, guns, and money
The shit has hit the fan

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10 hours ago, Naggsty Butler said:

This is pretty similar to what happened with my family.  My dad had kidney failure due to diabetes and was on dialysis for years. His body and mind deteriorated significantly, and he couldn't take care of himself.  He was selected for a transplant in August last year, which came as a surprise to all of us, as he had been on the transplant list for around 7 years. Unfortunately, his body went into full rejection, and the doctors used a lot of different treatments to try and get his body to accept the kidney. He was in the hospital for about 8 months straight, dipping in and out of lucidity. Finally, at the end of March, he slipped into a coma. The doctors told my family he would likely die within days. I caught a very empty flight home and went to the hospital with my mom and brother. The hospital had a no visitor policy in place, but made an exception for me.  I was the only visitor in the entire hospital. My brother had been kicked out earlier because the hospital staff had changed while he was there and didn't know that he was allowed to be in. The hospital admin wasn't communicating with employees and the employees were communicating with each other.  My mom wasn't allowed in.  I saw my dad at about 1 in the morning.  The plan was to pull the plug around noon. We figured we would all come back in the morning to say goodbye.  We got a call around 5 in the morning informing us that he had passed. I was the last one to see him alive and say goodbye. It was like he was just waiting for me, the only kid who lived more that 20 miles from home, to come and say goodbye. 

The plan was to bury him as soon as possible, since we couldn't do a funeral. He died on March 31st, and we buried him on April 2nd. The cemetery would only allow 10 people in at a time. The funeral consist of me and my 4 siblings, my mom, and my dad's brother and 3 sisters. No spouses were allowed.  We almost had to scrap the funeral due to one of my dad's friends insisting that she be allowed to attend since COVID19 was a hoax. We used my phone to record the graveside service on facebook live so people could watch. If we had had a proper funeral, there would have been well over 100 people there. It was sad that we couldn't give him a proper sendoff. The whole experience was pretty surreal. My dad was known for his sense of humor, and we figured he was waiting for April 1st just to mess with everyone.  I can't imagine having to try and explain on April 1st that my dad had died.  No one would have believed me.  My dad would have thought it was funny.

 

I’m sorry to hear about you losing your dad.  I lost mine 25 years ago and I still miss him.  

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6 hours ago, Bob said:

Masks are ineffective

"CoV-2 during coughs by infected patients. Prior evidence that surgical masks effectively filtered influenza virus (1) informed recommendations that patients with confirmed or suspected COVID-19 should wear face masks to prevent transmission (2). However, the size and concentrations of SARS–CoV-2 in aerosols generated during coughing are unknown. Oberg and Brousseau (3) demonstrated that surgical masks did not exhibit adequate filter performance against aerosols measuring 0.9, 2.0, and 3.1 μm in diameter. Lee and colleagues (4) showed that particles 0.04 to 0.2 μm can penetrate surgical masks. The size of the SARS–CoV particle from the 2002–2004 outbreak was estimated as 0.08 to 0.14 μm (5); assuming that SARS-CoV-2 has a similar size, surgical masks are unlikely to effectively filter this virus."

 

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-1342

Bob.  Have you ever worn a mask and had it fog up your glasses?  Well if it redirects moisture from your breath don’t you think the Virus in those same water droplets might be redirected also.  Certainly not all of them.  No one claimed that fact.  But it does reduce the perimeter.  

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2 minutes ago, Joe from WY said:

Eat the corn from my shit, bitch.

You're  a +++++ing idiot. You let people tell you what  to do...you let people push you around. How long do you think it's gonna last? How long are you gonna let it go on? How long are you gonna let them push you around? How long? Maybe you like it, maybe you like being pushed around. Maybe you love it, maybe you love getting your face stuck in the shit. But who are we kidding...you love it, don't you? You love it. You're a +++++ing slave...letting everybody push you around.

What are you going to do about it?

Over dramatic much? 

Having some common courtesy for people that have to be working when I go out by wearing a mask to lessen their exposure does not make me a slave to anyone.

Pointing out why the CDC and many states have issued guidelines  does not make me an idiot.

You throwing a tantrum on a MWC forum does not make you a tough guy.

If you don't care to interact with me then don't. I don't get off on trading insults, so if that is all you have then I have no interest in continuing a dialogue. 

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I'm a desperate man
Send lawyers, guns, and money
The shit has hit the fan

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23 minutes ago, Joe from WY said:

You're the same sort of person who'd be clamoring for Jews to wear armbands in Nazi Germany because it was "good for them"...you'd have been a "Good German" back then.

Having a bad day?  Usually you condemn such hyperbole not spew it?  

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12 minutes ago, Joe from WY said:

Eat the corn from my shit, bitch.

You're  a +++++ing idiot. You let people tell you what  to do...you let people push you around. How long do you think it's gonna last? How long are you gonna let it go on? How long are you gonna let them push you around? How long? Maybe you like it, maybe you like being pushed around. Maybe you love it, maybe you love getting your face stuck in the shit. But who are we kidding...you love it, don't you? You love it. You're a +++++ing slave...letting everybody push you around.

What are you going to do about it?

Just FYI.  Not everyone who would like to get out are low risk.  Some are high risk like my wife who are reasonably scared about dying if they catch it.  Wearing a mask is simply courtesy for others.  

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Just now, Joe from WY said:

I'm sorry, I don't speak Sheep. You should monetize your act on YouTube. And call it "Farm Animals Who Can Talk". It'd make money.

 

Did she wear a mask out previously, Pre-Covid? If not, your pearl clutching is laughable.

I am speaking your people's language now. You know, like "2 MILLION WILL DIE!!!!"

 

She made sure to get a flu vaccine shot and asked I did.  So what’s your point...   

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I think people who have never been truly oppressed are being inconvenienced for the first time in their lives and don’t understand what it means to sacrifice in the name of the greater good.

 

Even if it turns out the mask doesn’t do anything other than make the person walking by you feel a little safer, what’s the harm in it. 

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5 hours ago, sactowndog said:

Bob.  Have you ever worn a mask and had it fog up your glasses?  Well if it redirects moisture from your breath don’t you think the Virus in those same water droplets might be redirected also.  Certainly not all of them.  No one claimed that fact.  But it does reduce the perimeter.  

This. Masks are designed to prevent water droplets that the virus uses as a vehicle from dispersing. Common courtesy people. Refusing masks seems like a rediculous hill to die on...   

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6 hours ago, Joe from WY said:

So should everyone else get a flu shot too? I mean, there's multiple strains of flu floating around after all, and it's all for the "common good"...

That said, you weren't the original object of my ire so I don't understand why you're trying to jump in this.

Well in this case it provides her a vaccination that isn’t available with Corona.    

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8 hours ago, Joe from WY said:

So should everyone else get a flu shot too? I mean, there's multiple strains of flu floating around after all, and it's all for the "common good"...

That said, you weren't the original object of my ire so I don't understand why you're trying to jump in this.

DO U believe in god...     if she isn't real what does it hurt believing.  now joe go stick a cob up your bung

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this is excellent

I rarely post anything and don’t always want to talk about this, but I thought to post my thoughts on questions that have come up recently. I work as an intensivist (ICU doctor) and pulmonologist (lung doctor). Sorry for being wordy!

  1. Should I wear a mask? It’s too bad that this has become politicized. Most of my day in the hospital is spent wearing a regular mask even when seeing many of the COVID positive patients. We only wear the heavy-duty stuff during aerosolizing procedures. Regular masks are designed to block respiratory droplets that can carry virus. (So when that guy sneezes or coughs in the aisle next to you…) Are they 100% effective? No! But they are also not 0% effective. I choose to wear a mask in public. If we can (of our own free will and choice) prevent the transmission of the virus by 40,60, 80% (or whatever it may be) by wearing a mask in public, that can be a huge help. This can help the reopenings to be more successful and safe (which everyone actually wants). Don’t do it for yourself. You are doing it for your grandma, frail neighbor with chronic illness, cousin getting chemotherapy, or a father of 4 who might end up dying in ICU. The world war 2 generation banded together in an impressive show of unity toward a good cause (including responding when the government asked). It took major sacrifices. I think we can do the same (and still preserve our freedom).
  1. What else will help to prevent spreading the virus? The virus is transmitted mostly through respiratory droplets, occasionally through aerosolization, and when someone touches a contaminated surface and then touches their eyes, nose, or mouth. Wash your hands especially after going out into public. Use hand sanitizer. Stop touching your face so much. Keep your workspace clean. Wait for the pandemic to finish before testing your immune system.
  1. Do you think we should be reopening? We were going to have to reopen at some point. I completely understand that there are serious consequences (mental, physical, economic, medical) to not reopening, so I agree it must happen with caution. If we all choose to take precautions in public, these openings stand a better chance of being successful and staying open. We need to use common sense, open systematically, and protect the vulnerable. There are likely to be more COVID hospitalizations and deaths as this happens, unfortunately, but we can lower the curve by enacting these practices.
  2. Do you trust the CDC and Fauci? I do trust Dr. Fauci. He has put in years of service for our country and I think he has good intentions for the nation. I do not believe him to be part of a conspiracy. I trust the CDC and think that overall they have provided good guidance though they have not been perfect. Take a look at their website if you haven’t.
  1. What is it like to work with coronavirus patients? I’m glad this is mostly a mild viral illness for those who get it. However, I get to see all the bad cases. And they are bad, my friends. They are not all old, frail, or have a chronic illness. I have seen patients in the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, and above in the ICU with this. Most end up on ventilators and they stay on ventilators often for weeks. I put someone on a ventilator almost every day last week. It’s not hard to see how a hospital could run out of rooms or vents but luckily we are not there yet (here in Utah). I have seen grown men cry trying to decide whether to die alone in the ICU or try to get by on a ventilator. I have seen patients appear to get better then suddenly die. I have seen patients sitting for weeks on ventilators without getting better and get a tracheostomy. It started off slow but we are now seeing more each week. These patients take ALOT of physical and mental labor. This is not like the flu, I guarantee it. We are doing our best for them. Yes there are many who have or will recover and lead normal lives. Death is not the only outcome to think about. There will be many who survive severe illness and will never be the same. It can lead to chronic lung disease, disability, need for oxygen, or the need to live in a care facility for the rest of one’s life. We are expecting more and will continue to work hard for them.

  2. Do any treatments work? I have used hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, convalescent plasma, tocilizumab, vitamin C, zinc. My general sense from using these is that none are “the cure”. I have not seen any consistent effectiveness with any of these, though we continue to try them. Hopefully more quality studies will shed light on this. We don’t have remdesivir yet and though there may be some improved outcomes with it, it is also not the cure.

  3. Would you get the vaccine? Yes! My family and I would gladly get a safe effective vaccine. Smallpox killed nearly 1/2 billion people before a vaccine, and now it’s gone. I’ve seen patients on chronic ventilators and crippled from polio before the vaccine was available. Many of us would not have existed on earth without vaccines because our parents or grandparents would have died before making us. I agree that vaccines have rare risks and adverse effects, but the benefits of vaccines almost always outweigh the small risk. Getting a vaccine will boost herd immunity quickly and allow everyone to go back to school, church, work, etc.

Stay safe my friends! Be kind. Take precautions. Open with caution. Protect those at high risk. Support each other. Unite the political divide. Be understanding of differences and look for common ground. Let’s get through this.

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1 hour ago, Joe from WY said:

What about the multiple strains of flu that are floating around in a given season? Should we all have to get multiple of them each year so your wife feels safe?

she is free to get her own vaccine but you aren’t really an anti-vaxxer are you?  seems like you are just particularly cranky.   I know you aren’t a chick so it can’t be PMS 😁

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10 hours ago, Joe from WY said:

Eat the corn from my shit, bitch.

You're  a +++++ing idiot. You let people tell you what  to do...you let people push you around. How long do you think it's gonna last? How long are you gonna let it go on? How long are you gonna let them push you around? How long? Maybe you like it, maybe you like being pushed around. Maybe you love it, maybe you love getting your face stuck in the shit. But who are we kidding...you love it, don't you? You love it. You're a +++++ing slave...letting everybody push you around.

What are you going to do about it?

Here Joe...you're obviously Covid stressed...chill

image.jpeg.06f1673c6cc6aac6defaab55025ff229.jpeg

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25 minutes ago, Del Scorcho said:

 

this is excellent

I rarely post anything and don’t always want to talk about this, but I thought to post my thoughts on questions that have come up recently. I work as an intensivist (ICU doctor) and pulmonologist (lung doctor). Sorry for being wordy!

  1. Should I wear a mask? It’s too bad that this has become politicized. Most of my day in the hospital is spent wearing a regular mask even when seeing many of the COVID positive patients. We only wear the heavy-duty stuff during aerosolizing procedures. Regular masks are designed to block respiratory droplets that can carry virus. (So when that guy sneezes or coughs in the aisle next to you…) Are they 100% effective? No! But they are also not 0% effective. I choose to wear a mask in public. If we can (of our own free will and choice) prevent the transmission of the virus by 40,60, 80% (or whatever it may be) by wearing a mask in public, that can be a huge help. This can help the reopenings to be more successful and safe (which everyone actually wants). Don’t do it for yourself. You are doing it for your grandma, frail neighbor with chronic illness, cousin getting chemotherapy, or a father of 4 who might end up dying in ICU. The world war 2 generation banded together in an impressive show of unity toward a good cause (including responding when the government asked). It took major sacrifices. I think we can do the same (and still preserve our freedom).
  1. What else will help to prevent spreading the virus? The virus is transmitted mostly through respiratory droplets, occasionally through aerosolization, and when someone touches a contaminated surface and then touches their eyes, nose, or mouth. Wash your hands especially after going out into public. Use hand sanitizer. Stop touching your face so much. Keep your workspace clean. Wait for the pandemic to finish before testing your immune system.
  1. Do you think we should be reopening? We were going to have to reopen at some point. I completely understand that there are serious consequences (mental, physical, economic, medical) to not reopening, so I agree it must happen with caution. If we all choose to take precautions in public, these openings stand a better chance of being successful and staying open. We need to use common sense, open systematically, and protect the vulnerable. There are likely to be more COVID hospitalizations and deaths as this happens, unfortunately, but we can lower the curve by enacting these practices.
  2. Do you trust the CDC and Fauci? I do trust Dr. Fauci. He has put in years of service for our country and I think he has good intentions for the nation. I do not believe him to be part of a conspiracy. I trust the CDC and think that overall they have provided good guidance though they have not been perfect. Take a look at their website if you haven’t.
  1. What is it like to work with coronavirus patients? I’m glad this is mostly a mild viral illness for those who get it. However, I get to see all the bad cases. And they are bad, my friends. They are not all old, frail, or have a chronic illness. I have seen patients in the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, and above in the ICU with this. Most end up on ventilators and they stay on ventilators often for weeks. I put someone on a ventilator almost every day last week. It’s not hard to see how a hospital could run out of rooms or vents but luckily we are not there yet (here in Utah). I have seen grown men cry trying to decide whether to die alone in the ICU or try to get by on a ventilator. I have seen patients appear to get better then suddenly die. I have seen patients sitting for weeks on ventilators without getting better and get a tracheostomy. It started off slow but we are now seeing more each week. These patients take ALOT of physical and mental labor. This is not like the flu, I guarantee it. We are doing our best for them. Yes there are many who have or will recover and lead normal lives. Death is not the only outcome to think about. There will be many who survive severe illness and will never be the same. It can lead to chronic lung disease, disability, need for oxygen, or the need to live in a care facility for the rest of one’s life. We are expecting more and will continue to work hard for them.

  2. Do any treatments work? I have used hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, convalescent plasma, tocilizumab, vitamin C, zinc. My general sense from using these is that none are “the cure”. I have not seen any consistent effectiveness with any of these, though we continue to try them. Hopefully more quality studies will shed light on this. We don’t have remdesivir yet and though there may be some improved outcomes with it, it is also not the cure.

  3. Would you get the vaccine? Yes! My family and I would gladly get a safe effective vaccine. Smallpox killed nearly 1/2 billion people before a vaccine, and now it’s gone. I’ve seen patients on chronic ventilators and crippled from polio before the vaccine was available. Many of us would not have existed on earth without vaccines because our parents or grandparents would have died before making us. I agree that vaccines have rare risks and adverse effects, but the benefits of vaccines almost always outweigh the small risk. Getting a vaccine will boost herd immunity quickly and allow everyone to go back to school, church, work, etc.

Stay safe my friends! Be kind. Take precautions. Open with caution. Protect those at high risk. Support each other. Unite the political divide. Be understanding of differences and look for common ground. Let’s get through this.

Personally I would love to see the anti-mask breakdown by age group.   I’m curious which generations are the more selfish ones.  

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The masks definitely make nice Halloween costumes. No one should be forced to wear one...if you want to wear one for "protection" and be a dumbass about screaming how great you are with your mask-ness...then do it, but don't force me or anyone else to do it...I'll fake a coughing fit around you for laughs. 

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