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Corona Virus - How bad is it going to be?

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Just now, soupslam1 said:

You ever work directly for government? It’s the most inefficient and unaccountable organization in existence. 

Yes. And no, it isn't. Dude in this country we have literally thousands of governments. Some are inefficient, some are unaccountable, many are not. The most inefficient, unaccountable places I've worked are private businesses. Structural competence matters more than "govenrment" or not "government".

Also, you're responding "government" DURING A PANDEMIC where the nations doing the best had the most robust GOVERNMENT response. Literally the news is proving you wrong. 

Finally, what's your counterpoint? You wanna bid out quarantine? Put social distancing out to the highest bidder? You think that there is any possible private sector response to a pandemic?

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23 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

One word, GOVERNMENT

yea must be why south korea, taiwan, and japan dealt with this virus so well.  damm government

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47 minutes ago, TheSanDiegan said:

Just to that particular video, or to the entire Baby Shark genre? :ph34r:

Good question. Though I suspect that guy masturbates to the idea of making masturbation illegal.

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Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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3 minutes ago, happycamper said:

Yes. And no, it isn't. Dude in this country we have literally thousands of governments. Some are inefficient, some are unaccountable, many are not. The most inefficient, unaccountable places I've worked are private businesses. Structural competence matters more than "govenrment" or not "government".

Also, you're responding "government" DURING A PANDEMIC where the nations doing the best had the most robust GOVERNMENT response. Literally the news is proving you wrong. 

Finally, what's your counterpoint? You wanna bid out quarantine? Put social distancing out to the highest bidder? You think that there is any possible private sector response to a pandemic?

Those businesses don’t survive. I worked in California state government for several years. The inefficiency and waste is insane. It’s almost impossible to be fired. Things move at a snails pace because people have no incentive to work hard. And most don’t. These are the people we are relying on right now. 

The only government organization I have any confidence in is the military because they deal in life and death as a normal course of business. Discipline is maintained and everyone is held accountable to do their job. 

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Just now, soupslam1 said:

Those businesses don’t survive. I worked in California state government for several years. The inefficiency and waste is insane. It’s almost impossible to be fired. Things move at a snails pace because people have no incentive to work hard. And most don’t. These are the people we are relying on right now. 

The only government organization I have any confidence in is the military because they deal in life and death as a normal course of business. Discipline is maintained and everyone is held accountable to do their job. 

Yes, they do. they absolutely do. The only thing that can make them fail is a lack of money. Dysfunction abounds. I've seen it multiple places. 

Government seems to be less efficient for 2 reasons. First, most governments are much more massive than most businesses. There's an inherit bureaucratic inertia in any large human system. To be efficient, governents tend to be larger. What you percieve as inefficiency is probably the exact opposite. the lack of responsiveness to any one person caused by sie actually means they consume less resources per person serviced. 

Secondly, governments don't fail. in very competitive or mature industries, this means that business is generally more efficient. But... that is far from every business. 

My man... the military is probably the least fiscally responsible and wasteful of any government entity. They're legally mandated to be more inefficient than they even want to be which is... real inefficient. Being fiscally restrained just isn't part of the program. 

Finally, you didn't answer the reason why I called your point asinine. How could any private entity deal with a pandemic? This shit is literally about the only thing that every person, including anarchists, agrees governments are for. You wanna trust everything to George Soros or some shit?

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5 minutes ago, happycamper said:

Yes, they do. they absolutely do. The only thing that can make them fail is a lack of money. Dysfunction abounds. I've seen it multiple places. 

Government seems to be less efficient for 2 reasons. First, most governments are much more massive than most businesses. There's an inherit bureaucratic inertia in any large human system. To be efficient, governents tend to be larger. What you percieve as inefficiency is probably the exact opposite. the lack of responsiveness to any one person caused by sie actually means they consume less resources per person serviced. 

Secondly, governments don't fail. in very competitive or mature industries, this means that business is generally more efficient. But... that is far from every business. 

My man... the military is probably the least fiscally responsible and wasteful of any government entity. They're legally mandated to be more inefficient than they even want to be which is... real inefficient. Being fiscally restrained just isn't part of the program. 

Finally, you didn't answer the reason why I called your point asinine. How could any private entity deal with a pandemic? This shit is literally about the only thing that every person, including anarchists, agrees governments are for. You wanna trust everything to George Soros or some shit?

We have to rely on government and that is the problem in a nutshell as I originally stated. 

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Just now, soupslam1 said:

We have to rely on government and that is the problem in a nutshell. 

... so that's it? government is doomed to be inefficient and thats the problem?

Maybe if we demanded more and voted to provide the structure to get more... we'd actually get more? 

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8 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

We have to rely on government and that is the problem in a nutshell as I originally stated. 

Governments are necessary to do all the shit to keep a society functioning that the private sector can't turn a profit doing.

IMO certain segments of society should not be profit-based (e.g., first responders, corrections, et al). Give me of "smart government" over "small government" I suppose, though I prefer a government be as small as it can be to effectively perform all the services it should to help ensure equal access to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. 

 

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11 minutes ago, happycamper said:

Yes, they do. they absolutely do. The only thing that can make them fail is a lack of money. Dysfunction abounds. I've seen it multiple places. 

Government seems to be less efficient for 2 reasons. First, most governments are much more massive than most businesses. There's an inherit bureaucratic inertia in any large human system. To be efficient, governents tend to be larger. What you percieve as inefficiency is probably the exact opposite. the lack of responsiveness to any one person caused by sie actually means they consume less resources per person serviced. 

Secondly, governments don't fail. in very competitive or mature industries, this means that business is generally more efficient. But... that is far from every business. 

My man... the military is probably the least fiscally responsible and wasteful of any government entity. They're legally mandated to be more inefficient than they even want to be which is... real inefficient. Being fiscally restrained just isn't part of the program. 

Finally, you didn't answer the reason why I called your point asinine. How could any private entity deal with a pandemic? This shit is literally about the only thing that every person, including anarchists, agrees governments are for. You wanna trust everything to George Soros or some shit?

I think the thing that ultimately makes governments bad at stuff is that there are always conflicting mandates. Its not really about efficiency. Look at every governmental department at all levels, and you will have multiple mandates that are in conflict with one another. The less reconcilable, the worse the department is at doing its thing.  That's why the military is ultimately seen as one of the more effective government entities... it has one pretty clear mandate - blowing shit up. So even when highly inefficient, it can still be effective. Departments of corrections on  the other hand...

Businesses have clarity in their mandate. Make money. To do that, provide a product or service people want to buy. Even when there are conflicts in there, the clarity of purpose is always there.

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Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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You want a South Korean response, here it comes.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/government-tracking-how-people-move-around-in-coronavirus-pandemic-11585393202?redirect=amp#click=https://t.co/jHbCoaLWpX

WASHINGTON—Government officials across the U.S. are using location data from millions of cellphones in a bid to better understand the movements of Americans during the coronavirus pandemic and how they may be affecting the spread of the disease.

The federal government, through the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and state and local governments have started to receive analyses about the presence and movement of people in certain areas of geographic interest drawn from cellphone data, people familiar with the matter said. The data comes from the mobile advertising industry rather than cellphone carriers.

The aim is to create a portal for federal, state and local officials that contains geolocation data in what could be as many as 500 cities across the U.S., one of the people said, to help plan the epidemic response.

The data—which is stripped of identifying information like the name of a phone’s owner—could help officials learn how coronavirus is spreading around the country and help blunt its advance. It shows which retail establishments, parks and other public spaces are still drawing crowds that could risk accelerating the transmission of the virus, according to people familiar with the matter. In one such case, researchers found that New Yorkers were congregating in large numbers in Brooklyn’s Prospect Park and handed that information over to local authorities, one person said. Warning notices have been posted at parks in New York City, but they haven’t been closed.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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Just now, smltwnrckr said:

I think the thing that ultimately makes governments bad at stuff is that there are always conflicting mandates. Its not really about efficiency. Look at every governmental department at all levels, and you will have multiple mandates that are in conflict with one another. The less reconcilable, the worse the department is at doing its thing.  That's why the military is ultimately seen as one of the more effective government entities... it has one pretty clear mandate - blowing shit up. So even when highly inefficient, it can still be effective. Departments of corrections on  the other hand...

Businesses have clarity in their mandate. Make money. To do that, provide a product or service people want to buy. Even when there are conflicts in there, the clarity of purpose is always there.

Thank you. This illustrates my thoughts with a clarity I did not have. 

4 minutes ago, TheSanDiegan said:

Governments are necessary to do all the shit to keep a society functioning that the private sector can't turn a profit doing.

IMO certain segments of society should not be profit-based (e.g., first responders, corrections, et al). Give me of "smart government" over "small government" I suppose, though I prefer a government be as small as it can be to effectively perform all the services it should to help ensure equal access to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. 

 

And... that often starts to reaaaaallllllyyyy resemble how large our government is. It's like just protecting 330 million people from each other and from 7 billion others elsewhere takes a little bit of size

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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5 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

You want a South Korean response, here it comes.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/government-tracking-how-people-move-around-in-coronavirus-pandemic-11585393202?redirect=amp#click=https://t.co/jHbCoaLWpX

WASHINGTON—Government officials across the U.S. are using location data from millions of cellphones in a bid to better understand the movements of Americans during the coronavirus pandemic and how they may be affecting the spread of the disease.

The federal government, through the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and state and local governments have started to receive analyses about the presence and movement of people in certain areas of geographic interest drawn from cellphone data, people familiar with the matter said. The data comes from the mobile advertising industry rather than cellphone carriers.

The aim is to create a portal for federal, state and local officials that contains geolocation data in what could be as many as 500 cities across the U.S., one of the people said, to help plan the epidemic response.

The data—which is stripped of identifying information like the name of a phone’s owner—could help officials learn how coronavirus is spreading around the country and help blunt its advance. It shows which retail establishments, parks and other public spaces are still drawing crowds that could risk accelerating the transmission of the virus, according to people familiar with the matter. In one such case, researchers found that New Yorkers were congregating in large numbers in Brooklyn’s Prospect Park and handed that information over to local authorities, one person said. Warning notices have been posted at parks in New York City, but they haven’t been closed.

I'm going to hire an Uber to take my phone on a Family Circus field trip around the county just to f*ck with people.

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2 minutes ago, TheSanDiegan said:

I'm going to hire an Uber to take my phone on a Family Circus field trip around the county just to f*ck with people.

There is almost certainly going to be a data dump with this that helps with understanding infection rates. Are you really willing to poison your own well!?

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5 minutes ago, happycamper said:

There is almost certainly going to be a data dump with this that helps with understanding infection rates. Are you really willing to poison your own well!?

I think he was joking. Lighten up man 

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Obviously these could be deaths from many causes, but I get the feeling the Chinese people are getting hammered by this. They’ll have the essential gear before us because they produce them, but there is no way those hospitals haven’t been an Italy like disaster.

 

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We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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Just now, bornontheblue said:

I think he was joking. Lighten up man 

Oh I was also joking. I only interrobang in jest!(?)

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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Just now, thelawlorfaithful said:

Obviously these could be deaths from many causes, but I get the feeling the Chinese people are getting hammered by this. They’ll have the essential gear before us because they produce them, but there is no way those hospitals haven’t been an Italy like disaster.

 

According to something i read like 7 hours ago (something lost to the sands of time) the average worldwide weekly death rate is 0.2/100k/week. Given that.... 11 million *0.2/100,000*11 = 242 expected deaths in that time period. A simple back envelope of 11 million people and a life expectancy of 70 years is about 3k people per year. 

Yeesh. So almost 100% corona related then.

45k*330million/11million = 1.35 million expected

:( 

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26 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

You want a South Korean response, here it comes.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/government-tracking-how-people-move-around-in-coronavirus-pandemic-11585393202?redirect=amp#click=https://t.co/jHbCoaLWpX

WASHINGTON—Government officials across the U.S. are using location data from millions of cellphones in a bid to better understand the movements of Americans during the coronavirus pandemic and how they may be affecting the spread of the disease.

The federal government, through the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and state and local governments have started to receive analyses about the presence and movement of people in certain areas of geographic interest drawn from cellphone data, people familiar with the matter said. The data comes from the mobile advertising industry rather than cellphone carriers.

The aim is to create a portal for federal, state and local officials that contains geolocation data in what could be as many as 500 cities across the U.S., one of the people said, to help plan the epidemic response.

The data—which is stripped of identifying information like the name of a phone’s owner—could help officials learn how coronavirus is spreading around the country and help blunt its advance. It shows which retail establishments, parks and other public spaces are still drawing crowds that could risk accelerating the transmission of the virus, according to people familiar with the matter. In one such case, researchers found that New Yorkers were congregating in large numbers in Brooklyn’s Prospect Park and handed that information over to local authorities, one person said. Warning notices have been posted at parks in New York City, but they haven’t been closed.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/article241568556.html

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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