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Best country to raise a child

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4 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

Higher taxes means less disposable income for things you really want to do. Most people that are interviewed all want so called “free” health care until they are told they have to pay for it. 

By that same token, most people have no idea what they pay for health insurance. They get it from their employer at a highly subsidized rate, or they never actually see a bill because the employer pays it for them in full. They have "free" health care that's lowering their disposable income in the form of lower wages and providing a tax deduction to their employer. 

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Just now, soupslam1 said:

There are a large number of mainly young people like that. They have very few health problems and don’t see the need for health insurance. Then there is the group that simply can’t afford it. 

Can't afford it, or can't stomach paying for it? 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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9 minutes ago, Broncomare said:

I've heard from some retired military that Tri-Care is a mess.  

I'm sure it's not perfect, but ask them if they'd like to start paying the insurance rates, deductibles, co-pays that I pay, all while struggling to find a doctor who's "in my network", dealing with surprise bills from "out of network" doctors who reviewed my case 3 months later that I had no idea I was even seeing; not a single one of them would leave Tri-Care. 

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15 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

Where did I argue that they should get free medical care? I am specifically commenting on you suggesting that people on welfare are there because they are lazy, and then using an example of someone who is objectively in a situation that requires one to be the opposite of  lazy to succeed. You should find a better example.

Here's a good example about where we should consider welfare reform - people who make specific choices where they can choose to mitigate potential risk of future catastrophic health issues and instead say that they'll "take my chances," then experience a health catastrophe and get public assistance or get to declare bankruptcy when they would have been in a better situation to deal with the catastrophe had they made better decisions when they were in the financial position to do so.

My in-laws are those people. It's annoying. Do you know anyone like that?

It sounds like that freeloader @Bob is getting free insurance too.   Freeloader!

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14 minutes ago, Bob said:

You are correct. I should not have called a med school student lazy. 

 

Well, I guess you just described me to a certain degree,  but I have a lot of non-liquid assets that are worth a lot of money so I could pay for certain catastrophic medical issues if worse came to worse. 

I did that on purpose. Not to call you a freeloader, but to point out it's often times more complicated than we make it. I live in farm country, and the farmers in my community regularly complain about "lazy" people getting welfare, when the farmers act completely and utterly entitled to the federal and state subsidies they get every year, generally incredulous when they don't get more,  while the people getting welfare who they are calling lazy are generally the people working on their farms. So my ears always perk up when I hear that.

I actually don't have a problem with welfare reform, or at least entitlement reform that ultimately impacts the way welfare is structured and distributed. It's gonna have to happen somehow.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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59 minutes ago, THEUniversityofNevada said:

I'm sure it's not perfect, but ask them if they'd like to start paying the insurance rates, deductibles, co-pays that I pay, all while struggling to find a doctor who's "in my network", dealing with surprise bills from "out of network" doctors who reviewed my case 3 months later that I had no idea I was even seeing; not a single one of them would leave Tri-Care. 

True, their rates and deductibles are not as high as civilians.  They still have to get "permission" to see specialists and find health care providers that take Tri-Care.  Some health care providers don't take Tri-Care because the paperwork is just as bad as medicare.  I know someone who had a baby and it took Tri-Care three months to approve the breast pump, even though the doctor said it was a medical necessity.  By the time it was approved, it was to late, the baby had to be switched to formula.  

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, soupslam1 said:

Higher taxes means less disposable income for things you really want to do. Most people that are interviewed all want so called “free” health care until they are told they have to pay for it. 

Yes, higher taxes could mean less disposable income.  Or you might have way less in the US depending on how much you have to pay for unexpected medical bills as one example.  Either way,  we are all part of this society and should pay a fair share.  The question is what is fair and what to we get out of it.  Otherwise we could all just pay no federal taxes and its every man for himself.  Some states would have better schools, roads, a militia.  Some might decide that the poor need a safety net. Others would not.  Maybe no state taxes.  Then it varies county to county. Ok, forget about the federal, state, county.  Collect some local city taxes.  Ok, not that.  Then you have a ton of disposable income in theory, assuming society doesn't collapse. The point of the original article posted was there are better place to raise kids based on a variety of metrics.  It was actually a decent sample size too if you read the story.  Taxes (and our national deficit) is always a fun subject, especially since it appears we have no idea how to fix the mess we are in and the cliff we are heading towards.  You can't pay out more than you take in indefinitely, but we are going to keep trying.  

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5 hours ago, THEUniversityofNevada said:

So, what’s a more important metric?

GDP or Happiness quotient? And how do you measure happiness?

America's pursuit of GDP over everything else is not healthy.  Making money isn't everything.  A good economy is obviously good for a nation, so I am not saying you want a crappy economy.  Americans obsession with money over everything is unhealthy.  I pursue money to live a good life, but I also understand that we live in a society and society only functions properly when people are solely focused on themselves and money.  

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6 hours ago, Broncomare said:

And they pay astronomical taxes. 

There is something to be said when paying high taxes if you know your education and healthcare are covered and that your money is going largely to things you agree with.  Knowing these things are covered from birth until death is no small thing and you cannot deny that paying for education and healthcare is a huge stressor for the majority of Americans. That said, it's a lot easier in a nation of 10M and with little immigration for the majority of your citizens to be on the same page.  Comparing the US to a Scandinavian country is like comparing apples to cotton candy.

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15 hours ago, Wyobraska said:

America's pursuit of GDP over everything else is not healthy.  Making money isn't everything.  A good economy is obviously good for a nation, so I am not saying you want a crappy economy.  Americans obsession with money over everything is unhealthy.  I pursue money to live a good life, but I also understand that we live in a society and society only functions properly when people are solely focused on themselves and money.  

Well and pursuing just GDP is like going all in on a player's points per game without looking at defensive and offensive efficiency, plus minus minutes, or even rebounding and turnovers. The economy is enormously more complex than sports games and yet we expect some pretty advanced metrics to explain how good a player is but accept a single one for 300 million people spending on average 5 million bits of currency a year? Just using GDP is like pointing to the Wizards and saying "well the Wizards are the 5th highest scoring team and it takes scoring to win so they're clearly better than the Lakers!"

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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1 minute ago, Bob said:

If Sweden can tax the poor why can't we? It impossible to be motivated to improve your lot in life when you have no skin in the game. 

What the hell are you talking about? Who has "no skin in the game"? Everybody is a alive and in the system, just... being around gives you skin in the game. If anything, wealthy people have a lot less "Skin in the game" than poor people because slight changes won't change their wealth whereas a slight dip can mean eviction for working poor families. Schools get worse? Sorry poors; the wealthy have private schools. Infrastructure gets worse? Sorry poors; the wealthy can use alternate means of transportation. Cost of living goes up? Sorry poors; you're spending a higher percentage of your income on housing and medical insurance while the wealthy see their net worth go up. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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20 hours ago, soupslam1 said:

Higher taxes means less disposable income for things you really want to do. Most people that are interviewed all want so called “free” health care until they are told they have to pay for it. 

It would be interesting to see the comparison per capita of what US citizens pay for medical care plus taxes versus other countries.  I think you might be surprised at the data.

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19 hours ago, Broncomare said:

True, their rates and deductibles are not as high as civilians.  They still have to get "permission" to see specialists and find health care providers that take Tri-Care.  Some health care providers don't take Tri-Care because the paperwork is just as bad as medicare.  I know someone who had a baby and it took Tri-Care three months to approve the breast pump, even though the doctor said it was a medical necessity.  By the time it was approved, it was to late, the baby had to be switched to formula.  

Sounds just like Kaiser to me.   
 

In one you are fighting government bureaucracy in the other the motivation to restrict access and expand profits.   

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Just now, Bob said:

OK! free shit for everyone forever and we'll make the rich fund it all 

What does this have to do with "skin in the game"?

Bob do you try to read responses?

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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1 minute ago, Bob said:

OK! free shit for everyone forever and we'll make the rich fund it all 

Sounds good to me.

https://www.businessinsider.com/worlds-richest-billionaires-net-worth-2017-6

According to Oxfam, billionaires added an average of $2.5 billion to their collective fortunes every day in 2018, bringing their share of the world's wealth to $1.4 trillion. That is the same amount of wealth controlled by the world's poorest 3.8 billion people.

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4 minutes ago, Bob said:

OK! free shit for everyone forever and we'll make the rich fund it all 

Why cant everyone pay in for medical insurance for example?  The majority of people already do that they just get shitty coverage for what they pay for.  

I would also like to see the US system really put in effort to get people healthier now rather than wait until they are sick.  Probably a pipe dream though. 

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Just now, Bob said:

When you contribute nothing to a cause and only take it's difficult to feel invested. Simply 'being alive' is not being invested or having skin in the game. What incentive do poor people have to improve their lot in life if they receive everything they need for free?

What are you talking about? Bob, the economy is the exchange of goods and services. If you aren't a hermit you objectively have roughly as much skin in the game as anyone else. If you are more sensitive to changes than others, you have more "skin in the game" to avoid dips. A 10% loss to a millionaire hurts, a 10% loss to a working class family can be a catastrophe. 

Your "no skin in the game" comment is just classist bullshit.

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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Just now, Bob said:

I have no idea how to fix healthcare, but all I do know it got wayyyyyy more expensive after Obamacare. Probably because every time government interjects itself into anything it gets +++++ed up.  

It was getting wayyyyy more expensive before Obamacare too and IIRC its rate of growth slowed for a bit there in 2012-2014. :shrug:

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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27 minutes ago, Bob said:

From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs, right? 

What does the Bible say about helping the poor Bob?  Does it say to each their own and every man for himself.  Perhaps there is some reason as to why other countries rank so high on the study for raising kids.  Perhaps there is some reason as to why other countries rank higher in happiness studies,  and those same countries are at the top of both lists.  Just a thought.

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