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Game Thread: Impeachment Trial

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1 hour ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

I don’t mean to seem like I’m arguing or being combative. It’s venting if anything. The deed is done and I think the consequences are going to be very bad. The Republicans in the 90’s and the Democrats now have taken all the sting out of the impeachment process. They both went from one scandal to the next searching for the “AHA, Gotcha!” event that they thought would allow them to get rid of a President they found to be unbearable. And when they found them the voters not only didn’t support it, they demanded acquittal. With this one most people seem practically miffed that this process was even occurring. 

Would it have changed anything...sigh. I don’t know, that would depend on the evidence unearthed. The problem with this inquiry was the bombshell came right at the start. Almost before Pelosi could even finish saying impeachment, Trump released the transcript showing that despite his stupid protestation of the most holy of phone calls, he did this. The polls immediately jumped and gave momentum that meant this thing couldn’t be stopped, the Dem base was too much a threat to the safe seat caucus members in a primary and the moderates in Trump districts were too expendable. But without the big witnesses, the ones who talked to Trump often, and the documents pertaining to them; there were no other bombshells. The process needed one or two of those to keep people interested and change people’s minds.

I doubt a bombshell like the Nixon tapes exists that would push this over the top. Without one there is no way of getting 20 GOP Senators to go along. I don’t think the facts would get better for Trump the more those close to him had to testify and if more documents were released to the public. On the contrary I think it would get substantially worse. You likely would have got some House Republicans voting to impeach and almost certainly a handful or more Senators. And that matters.

Trump needed to be chastised for this. Even with the facts as we have them now, I think a vote of censure would have passed both houses with bipartisan majorities. Impeachment was just too far. And now Trump will get away with this without any punishment for his actions. He’s a guy that pushes the limits as it is, he shouldn’t be let off the hook for this, but he will be because the country demands that he will.

tl/dr everything is awful. Hope you have a good time at Star Wars though

Uh... How'd you know I was at star wars?

Jersey Shore Stalker GIF by Jersey Shore Family Vacation

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8 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

Didn’t we just hear for hours on end House Democrats saying oh so sadly and solemnly that this was an open and shut case with the evidence they had? If it’s so damn convincing that the House, who has the sole job of doing the investigation, didn’t even need to hear from those witnesses, in what world is it’s the Senate’s responsibility to do it for them?

This was a screw up right from the start. They should have voted on opening an impeachment inquiry from the start and went to the courts to issue subpoenas. Once they did vote on October 31st, the courts expedited the subpoenas already in the system. 25 days later they had a ruling, January 3rd the appellate court was set to rule on those cases. The argument that this would have taken almost a year is not borne out by any fact whatsoever. On that timeline had the house voted formally to open an inquiry one week after Pelosi’s press conference, the appeals court would have ruled almost certainly in favor of the House by around December 4th. This was a needless fiasco, and it’s dumb to expect Cocaine Mitch to bail them out of it.

I pretty much agree on everything except the "needless fiasco" part. Anything like this that fully pisses off the steaming pile of dog manure who resides in the White House is alright by me.

And reelection and Mr. Grumpy's inability to control himself will give the Dems and the "fake news" many more opportunities to do that in the future.

Boom goes the dynamite.

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4 hours ago, soupslam1 said:

Until the Dems have a platform that I think is better. I care more about policy and what bills actually get passed than the person. Those are the things that affect everyone on a daily basis. I would have voted for Hillary if she had the same policies as Trump and had Trump espoused her policies.

Both of their personalities sucked. You know what Trump thinks, because he tells you unlike most politicians like Hillary that tell you one thing but are thinking and doing the opposite. Obama was a decent person and was far more presidential than Trump but his policies and decisions sucked. 

Regarding the above, no president is going to have a platform anyone completely agrees on. But, Democrat and Republican platforms and policies are so far apart it’s an easy choice for me, even if it’s Trump. By the way, I didn’t vote for Trump in the primary, I voted for Rubio. 

We're talking about some creep pledging undying support to Trump, not making a choice between him and Hillary. That's gross af. Especially for a congressman to do.

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4 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

I don’t mean to seem like I’m arguing or being combative. It’s venting if anything. The deed is done and I think the consequences are going to be very bad. The Republicans in the 90’s and the Democrats now have taken all the sting out of the impeachment process. They both went from one scandal to the next searching for the “AHA, Gotcha!” event that they thought would allow them to get rid of a President they found to be unbearable. And when they found them the voters not only didn’t support it, they demanded acquittal. With this one most people seem practically miffed that this process was even occurring. 

I just stopped reading right there.

Look, you've shown yourself to be a bright and informed guy. However, "most people?" Not even FOX polls say that. Fact is half the country has indicated they want Mr. Grumpy impeached AND REMOVED from office.

Boom goes the dynamite.

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4 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

I don’t mean to seem like I’m arguing or being combative. It’s venting if anything. The deed is done and I think the consequences are going to be very bad. The Republicans in the 90’s and the Democrats now have taken all the sting out of the impeachment process. They both went from one scandal to the next searching for the “AHA, Gotcha!” event that they thought would allow them to get rid of a President they found to be unbearable. And when they found them the voters not only didn’t support it, they demanded acquittal. With this one most people seem practically miffed that this process was even occurring. 

Would it have changed anything...sigh. I don’t know, that would depend on the evidence unearthed. The problem with this inquiry was the bombshell came right at the start. Almost before Pelosi could even finish saying impeachment, Trump released the transcript showing that despite his stupid protestation of the most holy of phone calls, he did this. The polls immediately jumped and gave momentum that meant this thing couldn’t be stopped, the Dem base was too much a threat to the safe seat caucus members in a primary and the moderates in Trump districts were too expendable. But without the big witnesses, the ones who talked to Trump often, and the documents pertaining to them; there were no other bombshells. The process needed one or two of those to keep people interested and change people’s minds.

I doubt a bombshell like the Nixon tapes exists that would push this over the top. Without one there is no way of getting 20 GOP Senators to go along. I don’t think the facts would get better for Trump the more those close to him had to testify and if more documents were released to the public. On the contrary I think it would get substantially worse. You likely would have got some House Republicans voting to impeach and almost certainly a handful or more Senators. And that matters.

Trump needed to be chastised for this. Even with the facts as we have them now, I think a vote of censure would have passed both houses with bipartisan majorities. Impeachment was just too far. And now Trump will get away with this without any punishment for his actions. He’s a guy that pushes the limits as it is, he shouldn’t be let off the hook for this, but he will be because the country demands that he will.

tl/dr everything is awful. Hope you have a good time at Star Wars though

Maybe... Maybe...a censure with some R support could have been a stronger rebuke, practically speaking but honestly that's a big if. There'd have to be something to gain for those lonely souls that walked that plank and I'm not sure there is.

In any case we'd be right back here again at no removal and then the Dems would be knifing her for not pursuing impeachment. Maybe, just maybe, Nancy did the best with the hand she was dealt. Lots of tough choices in this along the way for her and I think us armchair pundits my not see the whole picture from her perspective all the time.

And of course I didn't think you were being combative, i meant I that I mainly agreed with your post, silly.

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12 hours ago, SleepingGiantFan said:

I just stopped reading right there.

Look, you've shown yourself to be a bright and informed guy. However, "most people?" Not even FOX polls say that. Fact is half the country has indicated they want Mr. Grumpy impeached AND REMOVED from office.

61-F03-AF3-84-B1-40-B6-A44-E-C61-D3-FAF9

As of this week a small plurality of the voters oppose impeachment and removal. Another 5% of the population simply can’t be bothered to give a crap despite wall to wall coverage. You might fairly quibble with my use of miffed, but not most. 

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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On 12/20/2019 at 1:13 PM, alum93 said:

They are delaying the articles because McConnell said he has no intent to take it seriously.  Even dumber, instead of keeping his comments to himself, he couldn't help but brag what he was going to do and working with the president.  Talk about a moron.  If you aren't going to call any witnesses and basically end it once you receive, why should the House send it over today?  

They are delaying because the impeachment is going badly for them in the battleground states.  Now the DNC is taking polls to help decide what is least damaging ... getting their asses handed to them in the Senate or taking their ball and going home.  

 

Biden vs. Trump in battleground states

       

 

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2 hours ago, easybronc said:

They are delaying because the impeachment is going badly for them in the battleground states.  Now the DNC is taking polls to help decide what is least damaging ... getting their asses handed to them in the Senate or taking their ball and going home.  

 

Biden vs. Trump in battleground states

Holy poop, that is bad.  I have a cabin behind the cheese curtain, go there 2 to 3 times a year.  A lot of people pissed at the FoxConn deal.  Voted Scott Walker out, a Democrat in.  Trump and Walker were all in on that FoxConn deal, gave away the storehouse.

110926run_defense710.jpg
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On 12/20/2019 at 8:59 PM, toonkee said:

Maybe... Maybe...a censure with some R support could have been a stronger rebuke, practically speaking but honestly that's a big if. There'd have to be something to gain for those lonely souls that walked that plank and I'm not sure there is.

In any case we'd be right back here again at no removal and then the Dems would be knifing her for not pursuing impeachment. Maybe, just maybe, Nancy did the best with the hand she was dealt. Lots of tough choices in this along the way for her and I think us armchair pundits my not see the whole picture from her perspective all the time.

And of course I didn't think you were being combative, i meant I that I mainly agreed with your post, silly.

I don’t really disagree with any of this. Leadership is really hard. In our system you have to compromise, not just with the other side but amongst your own party. There is a vast difference in interests and thinking between the Barbara Lee, Raskin, Nadler, McGovern, and the Squad types; and the Ron Kind, Henry Cuellar, Jim Costa types in the caucus. Keeping all those balls in the air is no small feat, and I think for the most part Pelosi has done a good job doing it. My objections to overrunning due process and delaying deliverance of the articles excepted.

Schiff cornered her into something she didn’t want to do. He had the damning evidence of some wrongdoing. He was ready to hit the ground running utilizing his allies in the press. The part I underestimated was how dangerous not impeaching might be in a primary challenge to safe seat democrats. 

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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2 minutes ago, THEUniversityofNevada said:

Heard a political strategist interviewed this morning who suggested they could hold sending the articles of impeachment to the Senate until after the election. ::shrug::

They can hold them as long as they like. They can use a senate trial and acquittal as an October surprise if it’s politically expedient. But it’s becoming quite clear this was not just good people sadly and solemnly coming to the conclusion that this drastic measure was necessary and urgent, but rather a political stunt. Nobody wanted that, especially those that did see real wrongdoing here that may or may not have warranted the drastic measure. And there was wrongdoing.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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4 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

They can hold them as long as they like. They can use a senate trial and acquittal as an October surprise if it’s politically expedient. But it’s becoming quite clear this was not just good people sadly and solemnly coming to the conclusion that this drastic measure was necessary and urgent, but rather a political stunt. Nobody wanted that, especially those that did see real wrongdoing here that may or may not have warranted the drastic measure. And there was wrongdoing.

Not saying I agree with how it's been handled. I would be surprised to see them held back all the way to election day...LOL, nevermind, I wouldn't. 

A healthy majority of republicans and democrats polled support calling witnesses during the Senate trial. Whether that sways Cocaine Mitch, I don't know. I doubt it will unless it clearly threatens his majority. 

Keeping the question open poses an enormous amount of randomness to the equation. Trump wants to campaign on "exoneration." The longer it stays open, it risks over shadowing the Democratic Primary. Then again, the longer it stays open, the more stuff seems to come out. 

Political scientists are going to have a field day analyzing all this years from now. 

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14 minutes ago, THEUniversityofNevada said:

Not saying I agree with how it's been handled. I would be surprised to see them held back all the way to election day...LOL, nevermind, I wouldn't. 

A healthy majority of republicans and democrats polled support calling witnesses during the Senate trial. Whether that sways Cocaine Mitch, I don't know. I doubt it will unless it clearly threatens his majority. 

Keeping the question open poses an enormous amount of randomness to the equation. Trump wants to campaign on "exoneration." The longer it stays open, it risks over shadowing the Democratic Primary. Then again, the longer it stays open, the more stuff seems to come out. 

Political scientists are going to have a field day analyzing all this years from now. 

Indeed they will. As will we pithy big boy board mwcboarders in the months to come.

They don’t need McConnell. He’s laid out the procedures and they’re the same ones Schumer voted for with Clinton in a unanimous vote in the Senate. Go get four Republicans to vote for witnesses and documents. Roll some logs, make some promises of support for this policy or another, do something! Cocaine Mitch can’t stop this thing on his own. But if the position is let’s just leave this out there for the voters to decide, what the hell was the point?

Sanders, Warren, Klobuchar, and Booker would all be politically harmed by a Senate trial in the next few months. Senate rules require them to sit mutely day after day in the chamber not campaigning when they most need to be campaigning. The calling of witnesses can’t be good for Biden. His son is a jackass. He can barely speak for 3 minutes on a debate stage without saying something eye popping. How is he going to stand up to hours of a deposition. Mayo Pete would be laughing from his friend’s wine cave.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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40 minutes ago, pokerider said:

Trump says a lot of dumb things.  Democrats DO a lot of dumb things.  

Trump almost never says anything intelligent. Democrats sometimes DO some dumb things.

Boom goes the dynamite.

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1 hour ago, pokerider said:

Trump says a lot of dumb things.  Democrats DO a lot of dumb things.  

Sorry, man. I'm not into hating on the other team like that.  Lots of good Republicans and Democrats, conservatives and liberals and both ways of thinking have their merits.

Trump is a horrible human being and person regardless of party and his only ethos is himself. He wants you to view other Americans as your enemy and he'll punish them for you if you support him. Not any cause or movement or ideal, just him. I'm just not into that.

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Good to see I was right in saying that this was going to help out Trump in the long and even short-term. Dude is going to roll b/c the Dems all want to play grabass and try to become the Kings/Queens of Twitter instead of doing what's right by the American people.

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