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Rocket

Australia fire

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50 minutes ago, BSUTOP25 said:

Careful, both the deniers and catastrophiers are going to come after you with pitchforks and torches*.

*Clean burning carbon neutral torches for the catastrophiers. 

Well, the truth is usually found in the middle of two extremes. So if both sides are mad, then I'm pretty close.

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14 hours ago, CV147 said:

At the same time, there is no evidence that our planet will be uninhabitable, or that our planet cannot cope with a warmer climate. Our species evolved in a greenhouse earth. We'll be just fine.

We, as a species, will be fine most likely. Unfortunately, the next couple generations may not be fine, and many will likely suffer immensely under the effects of climate change. As a species, we've also lived and thrived through pandemics, non-man caused climate changes etc. That's little comfort for the millions who got displaced or killed in the big shuffles that accompany these events. I doubt the climate-change benefitting nations such as Canada and Russia will graciously open their doors for all those people whose homes have gotten just a bit too hot or too under water to survive there. 

My personal conclusion is that I don't have to believe in the most extreme doomsday scenarios in order to support drastic measures to limit further climate change. It's going to get ugly enough as things are now. I also plan to buy some land in Idaho. My grand-grandkids might thank me for it.

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Aussies need to do more controlled burns and fuel control.  There is quite a bit of info on that out there.

Greenies and many homeowners hate controlled burns, they are deniers.  They deny the reality that sooner or late that fuel has to burn and release CO2.

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18 hours ago, CV147 said:

This is exactly right. Observed global temperatures show that we continually are having the hottest, or top-10 hottest months on record. There's also the rate of warming, which is unheard of in the last 10 million years or so. This is correlated by the rise of anthropomorphic origin carbon dioxide, which is easily differentiated from natural processes by the types of carbon in the carbon dioxide we see in the atmosphere. This demonstrates that the increase of carbon dioxide is driven by burning fossil fuels.

At the same time, there is no evidence that our planet will be uninhabitable, or that our planet cannot cope with a warmer climate. Our species evolved in a greenhouse earth. We'll be just fine.

Also, the third point is correct in that cheaper green technology, not draconian taxes or crying children from Sweden, is the best hope at turning things around in the long term.

I think that's a good post.  Only thing I would add is "hottest on record" is a very small sample size.  

Climate change dates to antiquity,  and even that is a small sample size.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_ancient_Rome

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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-51101049?ocid=socialflow_facebook&ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=facebook&ns_campaign=bbcnews&fbclid=IwAR3phMGGuBjHEAwkoFM8A3KCZsti02fWG1R9ss0EnSljMd6aimaegMijaEM

Smoke from the massive bushfires in Australia will soon circle the Earth back to the nation, says NASA.

Massive infernos have raged along the nation's east coast for months, pushing smoke across the Pacific.

NASA said plumes from blazes around New Year's Day had crossed South America, turning skies there hazy, and moved "halfway around Earth" by 8 January.

cerified_Subarus.jpg

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23 minutes ago, Bob said:

Just food for thought - Why haven't we seen an acceleration in sea level rise? Why is polar sea ice still at normal levels? Why hasn't average temperature increased in the USA (one of the only places on earth that has a high quality temperature record) since 1900 - the period of anthropogenic CO2? How come basically none of the negative things have happened that the experts said were going to happen? How do you know the people telling you we have set "temperature records" aren't lying to preserve their funding and jobs? 

I have a feeling that, based on your last question, it doesn't matter what I say because you believe the scientists could be lying. If there's no trust in the data, then it's not worthwhile to argue about it.

I will say I watch climate monitoring fairly closely, particularly from NOAA's Climate Prediction Center, which is nonpartisan and working for Trump right now.

 

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On 1/6/2020 at 7:43 PM, crixus said:

Are Koalas like possums here, or are they endangered.  I could google it, but I'm trying to make conversation.

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5 hours ago, CV147 said:

I have a feeling that, based on your last question, it doesn't matter what I say because you believe the scientists could be lying. If there's no trust in the data, then it's not worthwhile to argue about it.

I will say I watch climate monitoring fairly closely, particularly from NOAA's Climate Prediction Center, which is nonpartisan and working for Trump right now.

 

Ok, but scientists are human right?  Do you think the majority of them are going to dedicate their lives to a field and say "ah, hard to say, who knows?".

I'm in the window business, it's not like we say, ah hell, our newest product isn't measurably different in real world applications than the previous model.

Look man, the world has unquestionably gotten warmer.  But I think we overestimate ourselves when we think we have it all figured out as to the how, why, and what are the ramifications.   I have a 10 year old debate with BR running over faith, which is basically the flip side of the same coin.  He thinks it is unequivocally hogwash, I think we don't know.  People a hundred or thousand years ago were just as sure of their facts as we are of our facts.  And half their facts turned out to be bullsh.  Who's to say half our facts won't be wrong?

Paper or plastic?  Florescent or incandescent?   Which is greener?  It depends on how you look at it.  And just saying well, "the scientists say" is a classic logical fallacy.

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My daughter, who is a wildland firefighter, said the people in fire new Australia was going to be really bad back in July or August.  One of the nice things about working so close to NIFC.  She also said that about half of the people going were incident commanders and the other half actual firefighters.  When it comes to wildland firefighting, be it forest or range land (similar to Australia), the US is the foremost expert on these fires, sadly.....  and we have the firefighter deaths to prove it.  

 

 

 

 

down in a hole.jpg

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Just now, Bob said:

1. The bush fires in Australia are not unprecedented. There were several fires in recorded history there that were worse by every metric. 

2. Just like in America, hippies there won't allow for the proper management of forests. Fuel load was too high and they set themselves up for this massive fire when it could have been mitigated. 

3. A species of opossum was likely saved by the fire because their food source is young trees and now young trees will be able to grow. 

This drives my daughter nuts.  Even after fires, they could recover a lot of the trees that were just scorched and get good lumber.  These trees are the dangerous ones come the next fire.  She's rappelled into initial starts that are next to past burns and those trees are just as dangerous as the ones on fire.  These trees are called widow makers and snags.  Most firefighters that are killed by snags are trees that are not currently on fire.  But now there isn't money for proper management because all of the money is used for suppression of fires.  Several western Governors are trying to get wildland fires declared national disasters and have them then fall under FEMA.  That would leave the states, BLM and Forest Service money for forest/range land management.   Also, people that build in the urban/wildland areas need to take the proper protections for their homes.  You'd be surprised how many don't.

 

 

 

 

down in a hole.jpg

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On 1/10/2020 at 7:21 AM, CV147 said:

This is exactly right. Observed global temperatures show that we continually are having the hottest, or top-10 hottest months on record. There's also the rate of warming, which is unheard of in the last 10 million years or so. This is correlated by the rise of anthropomorphic origin carbon dioxide, which is easily differentiated from natural processes by the types of carbon in the carbon dioxide we see in the atmosphere. This demonstrates that the increase of carbon dioxide is driven by burning fossil fuels.

At the same time, there is no evidence that our planet will be uninhabitable, or that our planet cannot cope with a warmer climate. Our species evolved in a greenhouse earth. We'll be just fine.

Also, the third point is correct in that cheaper green technology, not draconian taxes or crying children from Sweden, is the best hope at turning things around in the long term.

 

The 2nd and 3rd point is actually what I've heard many scientists say, but that point always seems to get lost between the extreme sides.

It's actually really really hard to kill off all of humanity or civilizations or an entire planet.  Deferring the problem could result in some deaths or making some things way more expensive, but we aren't talking Doomsday scenarios anytime soon.

We also know that telling people to "just stop your emissions" or whatever won't work.  Investing and coming up with technological breakthroughs is the right approach--we can help the environment and better humanity at the same time. (We may need some taxes or some other ways to make the initial investment, but I agree that Kyoto thing was just a way to tax rich countries)

 

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The problem with pulling out of the Paris climate accord is the point of no return won't wait for us to make the right decision. Corporations can not be expected to regulate themselves, their main goal is to make profits. It's gov's responsibility to regulate corps, with the current group in power save for a few, there's little hope of that happening.

https://www.un.org/press/en/2018/gaef3500.doc.htm

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Rocket said:

The problem with pulling out of the Paris climate accord is the point of no return won't wait for us to make the right decision. Corporations can not be expected to regulate themselves, their main goal is to make profits. It's gov's responsibility to regulate corps, with the current group in power save for a few, there's little hope of that happening.

https://www.un.org/press/en/2018/gaef3500.doc.htm

There’s also little hope the worlds largest polluters are listening also. How do you plan on regulating them? How about slapping tariffs on them? Oh wait, never mind, that would only be something Trump would do. 

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9 hours ago, soupslam1 said:

There’s also little hope the worlds largest polluters are listening also. How do you plan on regulating them? How about slapping tariffs on them? Oh wait, never mind, that would only be something Trump would do. 

I'm not sure what you're referring to, the US is the only country now that isn't signed on to the deal.

Also On 1 April 2016, the United States and China, which together represent almost 40%

 

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, Rocket said:

The problem with pulling out of the Paris climate accord is the point of no return won't wait for us to make the right decision. Corporations can not be expected to regulate themselves, their main goal is to make profits. It's gov's responsibility to regulate corps, with the current group in power save for a few, there's little hope of that happening.

https://www.un.org/press/en/2018/gaef3500.doc.htm

https://capitalresearch.org/article/u-s-achieves-largest-decrease-in-carbon-emissionswithout-the-paris-climate-accord/

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On 1/16/2020 at 6:37 PM, Bob said:

Another home run for Tony Heller. If you believe in global warming after watching this you are willfully ignoring cold hard data, history and infallible logic. 

 

 

Thumbs up to  your own post.

That's what I call infallible logic. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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7 minutes ago, Bob said:

lol. I didn't mean to do that. 

 

So, is there anything in the video that you disagree with? I'd be interested to hear what and why 

Fair enough on it being an accident to like your own post.

I didn't watch the video. I just think the concept of infallible logic is absurd.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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On 1/17/2020 at 12:52 PM, pokerider said:

"research by the 2018 BP Statistical Review"

even if this were legit, which it's most likely not that's not going to help with curbing and reversing the point of no return.

 

 

 

 

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