Mormon Church Tax Fraud

[SharkTanked]

3 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

FIFY...  I just hope the resulting investigation gets as much attention as the whistle blower allegations are getting, whether good or bad.  If results are bad you know it will blow up headlines, and rightfully so.  If nothing comes of the investigation I doubt it gets anywhere near as much attention...  but the negative perception resulting from these allegations will still exist for many.  
 

Like I said, I’ll wait for the results.  Too much potential “motive” there in my eyes for the whistle blower and I question how much of the bigger picture he really had exposure to.  This could all turn out to be nothing.  We don’t know yet.

Never seen a whistleblower so quick to out themselves. It's fishy for sure.

[dshawfan]

19 hours ago, Del Scorcho said:

to be fair, if you can’t afford it they will pay.  And it’s more voluntary and less pressured to go than ever before.  Which is a good thing.

Apparently our ward didn't get that memo....

[NorCalCoug]

19 hours ago, Del Scorcho said:

to be fair, if you can’t afford it they will pay.  And it’s more voluntary and less pressured to go than ever before.  Which is a good thing.

Technically, those cases typically get paid for by member donations to the ward’s general missionary fund.  It’s not the church per se.

[Guest #1Stunner]

1 hour ago, dshawfan said:

Apparently our ward didn't get that memo....

to be fair, you elite (probably uber rich?) San Diegans are living the dream....what with your nice beaches (with scantily clad boobs), Hodads, Zoo, Sea World, and such.

I assume that pressuring the San Diegans is the only way to get them to even CONSIDER leaving for 2 years.   

 

[dshawfan]

52 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

to be fair, you elite (probably uber rich?) San Diegans are living the dream....what with your nice beaches (with scantily clad boobs), Hodads, Zoo, Sea World, and such.

I assume that pressuring the San Diegans is the only way to get them to even CONSIDER leaving for 2 years.   

 

Actually, I live in Imperial County which is generally the poorest county in the State if not the country, and our ward still didn’t get the memo

[Guest #1Stunner]

27 minutes ago, dshawfan said:

Actually, I live in Imperial County which is generally the poorest county in the State if not the country, and our ward still didn’t get the memo

 

 

[mondego]

As others have mentioned, there are really two key allegations being made: 

1. The Church is sitting on $100B and could be using more of it for charitable purposes. The first half of that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone familiar with the Church - the Church had financial difficulties in the 1800's and has since made sound financial stewardship a top priority of both individual members and the entire Church. You don't start paying for numerous new meetinghouses, temples, etc. in cash without a massive reserve fund. The question of whether the church is doing enough for charitable purposes is truly in the eye of the beholder - critics will never be satisfied and members will always point to the things that are being done. 

2. The Church's investment arm, Ensign Peak, inappropriately used funds to help Beneficial Financial Group (an insurance firm owned by the church) and Property Reserve Inc. (while they were building City Creek Mall in downtown SLC). I presume Ensign Peak, an investment group, is allowed to have investments across a wide variety of assets. My question is this - is Ensign Peak allowed to make investments into Beneficial Financial Group/Property Reserve Inc. if it is structured like a loan or similar? I.e. those entities pay dividends back to Ensign Peak. Not a rhetorical question, I'm honestly interested in an answer. 

If the church truly did something wrong, there is no question the IRS will come down on them for it. Based on the quality of the accountants, lawyers, etc. I know who work for the church, I would be very surprised if the management of church funds has major illegalities. 

This article had some good additional details not discussed by the Post - https://www.deseret.com/utah/2019/12/17/21026182/mormon-lds-church-washington-post-whistleblower-irs-complaint-taxes-ensign-peak 

[crixus]

On 12/17/2019 at 8:34 AM, mugtang said:

That’s a pretty significant amount of money.  
 

Warning:  Do not bash Mormon’s for their beliefs in this thread.  You’re free to criticize the church for what they did but don’t call into question the beliefs of many of your fellow board members. 
 

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

- 1 Timothy 6:10

 

[Spaztecs]

The church uses their tax free status quite liberally when it comes to business ventures.

The vast majority of redevelopment here in downtown Ogden is being conducted on Church owned properties. While the redevelopment of our business district is needed, the Church will pay zero in property and income taxes they derive.

Just another get rich religious scam that We the People must finance with our tax dollars.

Before the attack crowd does their thing to me, yes, the Church is partially financing this redevelopment, but the loss of property and income revenue these properties should be generating end up being covered by my property taxes.

No surprise to me when I read this report a couple of days ago. Just another example of the rich and powerful getting moreso.

 

[Guest #1Stunner]

13 minutes ago, Spaztecs said:

The church uses their tax free status quite liberally when it comes to business ventures.

The vast majority of redevelopment here in downtown Ogden is being conducted on Church owned properties. While the redevelopment of our business district is needed, the Church will pay zero in property and income taxes they derive.

Just another get rich religious scam that We the People must finance with our tax dollars.

Before the attack crowd does their thing to me, yes, the Church is partially financing this redevelopment, but the loss of property and income revenue these properties should be generating end up being covered by my property taxes.

No surprise to me when I read this report a couple of days ago. Just another example of the rich and powerful getting moreso.

 

I think you are factually mistaken.

 

Church doesn't pay taxes (like income and property taxes) = things like Church buildings, Temples, tithing receipts etc.

Church does pay taxes = for profit ventures (like office buildings, residential buildings).  

The Church is subject to the laws, and cannot do what you are suggesting.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finances_of_The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints#Assets

The remaining assets include direct investments in for-profit businesses largely managed through Deseret Management Corporation. Although the church is a tax-exempt organization, its for-profit entities generate "unrelated business income" that is subject to federal, state, and local income and other taxes.

 

[Spaztecs]

19 hours ago, #1Stunner said:

 

 

The intro Melody and rhythm are the same as an old Joe Cocker song that I just can't place my finger.

After listening to some of my old Joe CD's I  found it.

Woman to Woman

 

[Spaztecs]

19 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

I think you are factually mistaken.

 

Church doesn't pay taxes (like income and property taxes) = things like Church buildings, Temples, tithing receipts etc.

Church does pay taxes = for profit ventures (like office buildings, residential buildings).  

The Church is subject to the laws, and cannot do what you are suggesting.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finances_of_The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints#Assets

The remaining assets include direct investments in for-profit businesses largely managed through Deseret Management Corporation. Although the church is a tax-exempt organization, its for-profit entities generate "unrelated business income" that is subject to federal, state, and local income and other taxes.

 

While you may be factually correct, they find ways to hide the income.

[Guest #1Stunner]

35 minutes ago, Spaztecs said:

While you may be factually correct, they find ways to hide the income.

^^^ Nice response.

First, you incorrectly state that the LDS Church is allowed to operate for profit ventures, tax free, in Ogden, and that you have to subsidize the community with your taxes, because the LDS Church is not paying any taxes.

Second, I show you that your assumptions are incorrect, and that the LDS Church is paying taxes (you referenced Ogden development)

And....your response (with no evidence) is that they are not paying any property taxes / income taxes in Ogden, because they are probably hiding income from the IRS?

 

OK.... And people say that only religious people believe in "fantasy".   Hmmmm....

 

[NorCalCoug]

LDS Church response:

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/church-of-jesus-christ-finances

[BSUTOP25]

On 12/19/2019 at 1:20 PM, #1Stunner said:

^^^ Nice response.

First, you incorrectly state that the LDS Church is allowed to operate for profit ventures, tax free, in Ogden, and that you have to subsidize the community with your taxes, because the LDS Church is not paying any taxes.

Second, I show you that your assumptions are incorrect, and that the LDS Church is paying taxes (you referenced Ogden development)

And....your response (with no evidence) is that they are not paying any property taxes / income taxes in Ogden, because they are probably hiding income from the IRS?

 

OK.... And people say that only religious people believe in "fantasy".   Hmmmm....

 

Doesn’t the IRS have a huge base of operations in Ogden, somewhere near the USU campus?

[crixus]

nm

[crixus]

10 hours ago, BSUTOP25 said:

Doesn’t the IRS have a huge base of operations in Ogden, somewhere near the USU campus?

USU is in Logan. Weber State is in Ogden, and there is an IRS office there.

[BSUTOP25]

7 minutes ago, crixus said:

USU is in Logan. Weber State is in Ogden, and there is an IRS office there.

@madmartigan and @#1Stunner will both correct you. USU is indeed in Ogden. 

[crixus]

6 minutes ago, BSUTOP25 said:

@madmartigan and @#1Stunner will both correct you. USU is indeed in Ogden. 

Taken from the USU website, (and none of them are in Ogden). - Utah State University has over 25 campuses and centers around the state of Utah where you can learn and interact with your peers and instructors via broadcasting technologies. Your classroom is right next door. https://www.usu.edu/ (click on campuses). 

 

[BSUTOP25]

38 minutes ago, crixus said:

Taken from the USU website, (and none of them are in Ogden). - Utah State University has over 25 campuses and centers around the state of Utah where you can learn and interact with your peers and instructors via broadcasting technologies. Your classroom is right next door. https://www.usu.edu/ (click on campuses). 

 

What, you believe everything you read on the internet? @AndroidAggie, please correct this guy.