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thelawlorfaithful

Horowitz vs USA: IG Report

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2 hours ago, Nevada Convert said:

Do you ever have anything of substance to say? Why not put some skin in the game to prove to everyone your ridiculous points of view? You just sit on the sidelines like a child that's too afraid to jump into the game. Jump!!! I need more entertainment. 

I rarely offer up deeply thoughtful posts in this forum for a variety of reasons. Here are some of those reasons, in descending order of import, first as they relate to you and then to the forum in general. 
 

1. Your posts have polluted my eyes for what, 15 years, possibly more? It feels like an eternity. Why shouldn’t you suffer some of my pain? 

1a. From day one you offered similarly oddball thoughts to what we see today on whatever topic you decided to misinterpret that fateful day on whichever version of the Nevada sports forum that was. Incredibly, you’ve tripled down on odd and quadrupled on stupid since then. Therefore, it will come as no surprise to anybody (except you) that responding to your ubiquitous moronologues does not warrant a well researched and fully cited post. A simple dismissal of your vapid thoughts and maybe a well-earned ad hominem or three is all you deserve. 

Reasons as they relate to the forum at large:

2. I’m a non-confrontational soul by nature. While I do enjoy a sincere dialogue and sharing of diverse and often divergent viewpoints with others who listen and respond respectfully, such respect is usually absent here in any political topic and in many other topics that should not ordinarily spark such controversy. This is a sign of our polarized times, I guess, and it’s certainly the forum culture here. If a topic interests me enough to overcome my inclination to not confront, it has to overcome another hurdle (see #s3 and 4).

3. My time is valuable. If I am actually inspired enough to post seriously on a topic, I’m not simply going to lob an opinion or two and then stubbornly dig in while offering little substance to back up my position. This takes up a lot of that valuable time, because when engaged in written discussions of import, my inclination is to research my position and then support it with citations, usually many. This forum is rarely open to that type of exchange, and that’s fine, but it does tend to preclude my direct participation.

4. My overall interests are wide and varied (not to suggest this isn’t true for many others who post here frequently). All of them require time to properly maintain, so I often don’t feel it’s an effective use of my limited time to argue on the internets. Plus, I’m happily married. I’d like the happily part and the married part to continue, so—time.

I am fully aware that some of my behaviors here—being a meanie to Contard and occasionally confronting blues on his own serial hypocrisy, to name two—are at odds with the rationale presented above. I’m human. Sue me.

 

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30 minutes ago, sactowndog said:

Convert, why don’t you actually read the report yourself instead of being fed pablum by either side?   Or is reading too hard for you like many Trumptards?

is anyone besides me struck by the irony of the Trumptards complaining about Page’s rights not being fully upheld by the FBI while simultaneously supporting Trump’s “right” to have the Ukrainians investigate Biden where no rights exist at all?   Only in Trumptard land would holding both these positions seem plausible.

My favorite point of irony, in the impeachment anyway, is that Republicans want the standards of criminal court to apply.  The funny part is if this was a court case Trump would be convicted in 2 seconds.  The fact that criminal court methods and practices don't apply is the one thing that will save Trump's azz in the end.

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We do not speculate whether the correction of any particular misstatement or omission, or some combination thereof, would have resulted in a different outcome. Nevertheless, the Department's decision makers and the court should have been given complete and accurate information so that they could meaningfully evaluate probable cause before authorizing the surveillance of a U.S. person associated with a presidential campaign. That did not occur, and as a result, the surveillance of Carter Page continued even as the FBI gathered information that weakened the assessment of probable cause and made the FISA applications less accurate.

We determined that the inaccuracies and omissions we identified in the applications resulted from case agents providing wrong or incomplete information to Department attorneys and failing to identify important issues for discussion. Moreover, we concluded that case agents and SSAs did not give appropriate attention to facts that cut against probable cause, and that as the investigation progressed and more information tended to undermine or weaken the assertions in the FISA applications, the agents and SSAs did not reassess the information supporting probable cause. Further, the agents and SSAs did not follow, or even appear to know, certain basic requirements in the Woods Procedures. Although we did not find documentary or testimonial evidence of intentional misconduct on the part of the case agents who assisted NSD's Office of Intelligence (01) in preparing the applications, or the agents and supervisors who performed the Woods Procedures, we also did not receive satisfactory explanations for the errors or missing information. We found that the offered explanations for these serious errors did not excuse them, or the repeated failures to ensure the accuracy of information presented to the FISC...

...In the preparation of the FISA applications to surveil Carter Page, the Crossfire Hurricane team failed to comply with FBI policies, and in so doing fell short of what is rightfully expected from a premier law enforcement agency entrusted with such an intrusive surveillance tool. In light of the significant concerns identified with the Carter Page FISA applications and the other issues described in this report, the OIG today initiated an audit that will further examine the FBI's compliance with the Woods Procedures in FISA applications that target U.S. persons in both counterintelligence and counterterrorism investigations

:shots:

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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49 minutes ago, Nevada Convert said:

And it's a worthless POS. Durham's report is what will matter here. 

God you’re an idiot. Horowitz gives you an flamethrower and it doesn’t matter because you didn’t get to see any perp walks from CNN contributors.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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34 minutes ago, Posturedoc said:

I rarely offer up deeply thoughtful posts in this forum for a variety of reasons. Here are some of those reasons, in descending order of import, first as they relate to you and then to the forum in general. 
 

1. Your posts have polluted my eyes for what, 15 years, possibly more? It feels like an eternity. Why shouldn’t you suffer some of my pain? 

1a. From day one you offered similarly oddball thoughts to what we see today on whatever topic you decided to misinterpret that fateful day on whichever version of the Nevada sports forum that was. Incredibly, you’ve tripled down on odd and quadrupled on stupid since then. Therefore, it will come as no surprise to anybody (except you) that responding to your ubiquitous moronologues does not warrant a well researched and fully cited post. A simple dismissal of your vapid thoughts and maybe a well-earned ad hominem or three is all you deserve. 

Reasons as they relate to the forum at large:

2. I’m a non-confrontational soul by nature. While I do enjoy a sincere dialogue and sharing of diverse and often divergent viewpoints with others who listen and respond respectfully, such respect is usually absent here in any political topic and in many other topics that should not ordinarily spark such controversy. This is a sign of our polarized times, I guess, and it’s certainly the forum culture here. If a topic interests me enough to overcome my inclination to not confront, it has to overcome another hurdle (see #s3 and 4).

3. My time is valuable. If I am actually inspired enough to post seriously on a topic, I’m not simply going to lob an opinion or two and then stubbornly dig in while offering little substance to back up my position. This takes up a lot of that valuable time, because when engaged in written discussions of import, my inclination is to research my position and then support it with citations, usually many. This forum is rarely open to that type of exchange, and that’s fine, but it does tend to preclude my direct participation.

4. My overall interests are wide and varied (not to suggest this isn’t true for many others who post here frequently). All of them require time to properly maintain, so I often don’t feel it’s an effective use of my limited time to argue on the internets. Plus, I’m happily married. I’d like the happily part and the married part to continue, so—time.

I am fully aware that some of my behaviors here—being a meanie to Contard and occasionally confronting blues on his own serial hypocrisy, to name two—are at odds with the rationale presented above. I’m human. Sue me.

 

Contacting my lawyer this very moment! He’s a stone cold killer...when he’s not skimming the reading.

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10 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

We do not speculate whether the correction of any particular misstatement or omission, or some combination thereof, would have resulted in a different outcome. Nevertheless, the Department's decision makers and the court should have been given complete and accurate information so that they could meaningfully evaluate probable cause before authorizing the surveillance of a U.S. person associated with a presidential campaign. That did not occur, and as a result, the surveillance of Carter Page continued even as the FBI gathered information that weakened the assessment of probable cause and made the FISA applications less accurate.

We determined that the inaccuracies and omissions we identified in the applications resulted from case agents providing wrong or incomplete information to Department attorneys and failing to identify important issues for discussion. Moreover, we concluded that case agents and SSAs did not give appropriate attention to facts that cut against probable cause, and that as the investigation progressed and more information tended to undermine or weaken the assertions in the FISA applications, the agents and SSAs did not reassess the information supporting probable cause. Further, the agents and SSAs did not follow, or even appear to know, certain basic requirements in the Woods Procedures. Although we did not find documentary or testimonial evidence of intentional misconduct on the part of the case agents who assisted NSD's Office of Intelligence (01) in preparing the applications, or the agents and supervisors who performed the Woods Procedures, we also did not receive satisfactory explanations for the errors or missing information. We found that the offered explanations for these serious errors did not excuse them, or the repeated failures to ensure the accuracy of information presented to the FISC...

...In the preparation of the FISA applications to surveil Carter Page, the Crossfire Hurricane team failed to comply with FBI policies, and in so doing fell short of what is rightfully expected from a premier law enforcement agency entrusted with such an intrusive surveillance tool. In light of the significant concerns identified with the Carter Page FISA applications and the other issues described in this report, the OIG today initiated an audit that will further examine the FBI's compliance with the Woods Procedures in FISA applications that target U.S. persons in both counterintelligence and counterterrorism investigations

:shots:

A wise man once said "Horowitz" is HR.

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2 minutes ago, toonkee said:

A wise man once said "Horowitz" is HR.

Haldeman ?

 

"We don't have evidence but, we have lot's of theories."

Americans Mayor

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3 minutes ago, toonkee said:

A wise man once said "Horowitz" is HR.

And a damn good one. Consistent, honest, and thorough; he is a credit to our country. He gives us all the info he can find, but never arbitrarily tells us when we should recognize 2+2=4. That’s up to us. I wasn’t drinking despair of him, but of us the country. Cheers to him.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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29 minutes ago, UNLV2001 said:

Image

James Barr is to "The Donald" what Hermann Goering was to Adolph Hitler.

"We don't have evidence but, we have lot's of theories."

Americans Mayor

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25 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

James Barr? A Hitler comparison?

Ok, boomer.

I know you are trolling me. But what do you mean by boomer ?

"We don't have evidence but, we have lot's of theories."

Americans Mayor

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42 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

James Barr? A Hitler comparison?

Ok, boomer.

Have you read the Rise and Fall of the 3rs Reich lately ?

I have. And it shook me to my core. I see the same things happening in America. The same blind loyalty to "The Leader".  A leader who says trust me. I will solve your problems. A political atmosphere of "It's our way, or no way." Add in a highly motivated gang of Thugs, Toadies and Henchmen willing to go to any lengths, including violence to make sure their guy and their political viewpoint is forced upon everyone else.

And you question my comparison to Nazism. ?

 

"We don't have evidence but, we have lot's of theories."

Americans Mayor

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2 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

It’s just a joke. Although 60 orbits does put you in the baby boomers.

Squarely.

I have also witnessed two exceptionally corrupt adminstrations at work prior to this one. (Nixon and W).  This current administration and it's parallels to the Nixon years and Watergate are striking.

Btw, the vast majority of the Nixon admin as well as his vp did some serious jail time over trying to cover up.

"We don't have evidence but, we have lot's of theories."

Americans Mayor

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3 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

He’s recommending changes, and investigating previous cases. But I’m dubious we’ll ever get a report near as unredacted as this one.

True but he is also increasing oversight of FISA warrants from the IG’s office.  That fact is a good thing.

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58 minutes ago, Spaztecs said:

Have you read the Rise and Fall of the 3rs Reich lately ?

I have. And it shook me to my core. I see the same things happening in America. The same blind loyalty to "The Leader".  A leader who says trust me. I will solve your problems. A political atmosphere of "It's our way, or no way." Add in a highly motivated gang of Thugs, Toadies and Henchmen willing to go to any lengths, including violence to make sure their guy and their political viewpoint is forced upon everyone else.

And you question my comparison to Nazism. ?

 

Oh you’re serious. Yes, the resemblance to post-war Germany is spot on. I fear for even saying so my family will be twittered into a camp :blink:

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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