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UNLV at Nevada - The battle for UNLV's Fremont Cannon

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7 hours ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Pretty much.  i have 0 doubt Mug saw what he saw.  He is as credible as anybody.  Like you said though, there is a big difference between swinging it at a fan with intent to hurt or swinging it at a head and swinging it at hands reaching for him and his teammates.

And I will admit I didn’t see what he was swinging at.  All I saw was him swinging the helmet in the direction of the fans.  

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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7 hours ago, Meister_Rebel said:

A still photo shows nothing.  The helmet is in his hand.  If you are using that as your proof that doesn’t hold water.  If all they have to suspend him is this still photo a good lawyer is going to tear some new assholes.

If in fact video shows a swing of the helmet towards a fan then I wholeheartedly support his suspension.

Right now I’m still waiting for proof with video.  All you are doing is defaming his character.

Stating what I saw happen isn’t defaming his character.  

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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I'm so disgusted I am at the point where I think we need a break from the rivalry game. I am afraid this will keep escalating and Vegas fans will feel they need to respond to this. There just appears to be too much emotion involved for something that should just be a game and entertainment.

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8 hours ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Pretty much.  i have 0 doubt Mug saw what he saw.  He is as credible as anybody.  Like you said though, there is a big difference between swinging it at a fan with intent to hurt or swinging it at a head and swinging it at hands reaching for him and his teammates.

I’d be more apt to give the guy a break except...

unlv-nevada.jpg

There is nobody within 5 feet of him! In the clip where he’s being dragged away there isn’t even a Wolf Pack Jersey in the frame. The brawl by the fence was 20 yards to the west of where he was. There was no reason to be by the fence there, let alone telling Myles Garret and Ron Artest to hold my beer.

And I think I’m more forgiving than most. Except for that sucker punching weasel Arnold, everybody in that scrum on the west side of the field wearing shoulder pads was just trying to protect their teammates. That’s what you do on a football field. Doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be consequences for it. That’s part of football too, taking responsibility for your actions like a man is just as much a part of the code as protecting your teammates on the field. But this dude wasn’t in the fight area.

And before anyone gets in with a yeah but, the Zonies who were throwing garbage and trying to put their hands on players are absolute trash. No excuses for that, nothing understandable about it.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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8 hours ago, Meister_Rebel said:

I'm all for punishment when it is due.  Was he swinging his helmet at reno fans?  Rebel players bust their asses off all season win or lose.  I'm going to have their backs until they don't deserve it.  You can defend whomever you want.  

The security guard was just standing there in the still photo pointing at a Reno fan. So I find that odd and waving around the helmet may be self defense. 

Because that may have been done to get fans to back off, after all they were throwing things and coming over the railing and grabbing UNLV players. One even ripped off a UNLV player helmet. 

Even Mug has admitted he doesn’t know what he was swinging at. 

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1 hour ago, SharkTanked said:

I'm so disgusted I am at the point where I think we need a break from the rivalry game. I am afraid this will keep escalating and Vegas fans will feel they need to respond to this. There just appears to be too much emotion involved for something that should just be a game and entertainment.

Bullshit! This kind of action is what makes rivalry games fun. Look at this thread as proof, 26 pages and climbing and almost none of it about the great football game that was played.

As Chris Murray writes in his "Monday Mailbag", which is always very long but a good/fun read, This is the first brawl since 1995, and everyone still remembers that. It was stupid but at the end of the day, no one was hurt.

http://nevadasportsnet.com/sports/mens-basketball/murrays-mailbag-what-the-hell-happened-in-nevada-and-unlvs-post-game-brawl

So this is what I'm supposed to say: Players fighting on the field is completely unacceptable and the penalties should be harsh. Nevada's Austin Arnold, who sparked the fight with the initial blindsiding of UNLV quarterback Kenyon Oblad, should be suspended. So should UNLV's Giovanni Fauolo Sr. for swinging his helmet at Nevada fans. It is unbecoming of both schools to have their student-athletes acting in such a manner. It's a poor representation of the universities and their communities. What am I supposed to tell my kids about what happened after the game? Couldn't the players keep their poise despite the emotional game? These guys are role models and set a horrible example. And what about the Nevada fan who ripped a helmet of the head of a UNLV player; and the fans who threw snowballs, beer bottles and soda cans at UNLV's players; and the fan who jumped onto the field to join the action; and the fans screaming obscenities and flipping off UNLV's coaches? They should be ashamed of themselves and some should be banned from Mackay Stadium for future games. They're all losers. Both UNLV and Nevada should be fully remorseful for their actions as both acted in ways unbecoming of our great state. Their post-game actions overshadowed what was an excellent game between two passionate teams. It is a black mark on the rivalry forever.

And this is what I'm not supposed to say but kind of feel: It was kind of cool, right? It's been a long time since Nevada and UNLV fought (the 1995 game), and that's the game everybody remembers from this rivalry. Everybody is going to remember this game forever because it went into overtime and then turned into chaos afterwards. Like, I know I'm not supposed to condone fighting, but it was kind of fun to see and nobody got hurt, so no harm, no foul, right? Yes, you have to suspend some people to send a message, but how great is next year's game going to be when the returning players face off again? It's going to be lit. I mean, I'm supposed to be OK with these teenagers blasting their bodies all game long without pay but get upset when they want to shove and throw a few punches like that's more dangerous than actually playing the game? And you ask, "What am I going to tell my kids?" Well, I'll just point to this game and tell them not to be an idiot on the field. I'll talk to them about the importance of poise and sportsmanship and ask whether they want to go viral online and across the national media for throwing a punch? "Do you want that to be your legacy? No, you don't. So don't act that way no matter how emotional you are." It will be a good lesson. And then I'll point to the fans' behavior and say, "If you ever act like that, I'm going to make you change your last name from 'Murray' because you're a moron." Wolf Pack fans made Reno as a city look like a joke. That's what I'll tell my kids. But, while I know we're not supposed to like fighting, one brawl every 25 years between these teams? Yeah, I'm good with that.

 

A shout-out to @Slapdad nice photoshop tweet, you should post it here if you haven't already!

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25 minutes ago, renoskier said:

Bullshit! This kind of action is what makes rivalry games fun. Look at this thread as proof, 26 pages and climbing and almost none of it about the great football game that was played.

As Chris Murray writes in his "Monday Mailbag", which is always very long but a good/fun read, This is the first brawl since 1995, and everyone still remembers that. It was stupid but at the end of the day, no one was hurt.

http://nevadasportsnet.com/sports/mens-basketball/murrays-mailbag-what-the-hell-happened-in-nevada-and-unlvs-post-game-brawl

So this is what I'm supposed to say: Players fighting on the field is completely unacceptable and the penalties should be harsh. Nevada's Austin Arnold, who sparked the fight with the initial blindsiding of UNLV quarterback Kenyon Oblad, should be suspended. So should UNLV's Giovanni Fauolo Sr. for swinging his helmet at Nevada fans. It is unbecoming of both schools to have their student-athletes acting in such a manner. It's a poor representation of the universities and their communities. What am I supposed to tell my kids about what happened after the game? Couldn't the players keep their poise despite the emotional game? These guys are role models and set a horrible example. And what about the Nevada fan who ripped a helmet of the head of a UNLV player; and the fans who threw snowballs, beer bottles and soda cans at UNLV's players; and the fan who jumped onto the field to join the action; and the fans screaming obscenities and flipping off UNLV's coaches? They should be ashamed of themselves and some should be banned from Mackay Stadium for future games. They're all losers. Both UNLV and Nevada should be fully remorseful for their actions as both acted in ways unbecoming of our great state. Their post-game actions overshadowed what was an excellent game between two passionate teams. It is a black mark on the rivalry forever.

And this is what I'm not supposed to say but kind of feel: It was kind of cool, right? It's been a long time since Nevada and UNLV fought (the 1995 game), and that's the game everybody remembers from this rivalry. Everybody is going to remember this game forever because it went into overtime and then turned into chaos afterwards. Like, I know I'm not supposed to condone fighting, but it was kind of fun to see and nobody got hurt, so no harm, no foul, right? Yes, you have to suspend some people to send a message, but how great is next year's game going to be when the returning players face off again? It's going to be lit. I mean, I'm supposed to be OK with these teenagers blasting their bodies all game long without pay but get upset when they want to shove and throw a few punches like that's more dangerous than actually playing the game? And you ask, "What am I going to tell my kids?" Well, I'll just point to this game and tell them not to be an idiot on the field. I'll talk to them about the importance of poise and sportsmanship and ask whether they want to go viral online and across the national media for throwing a punch? "Do you want that to be your legacy? No, you don't. So don't act that way no matter how emotional you are." It will be a good lesson. And then I'll point to the fans' behavior and say, "If you ever act like that, I'm going to make you change your last name from 'Murray' because you're a moron." Wolf Pack fans made Reno as a city look like a joke. That's what I'll tell my kids. But, while I know we're not supposed to like fighting, one brawl every 25 years between these teams? Yeah, I'm good with that.

 

A shout-out to @Slapdad nice photoshop tweet, you should post it here if you haven't already!

My issue isn't with players fighting. My issue is with the fans. Fans throwing things at the players and trying to start altercations. That doesn't make rivalry games fun and my fear is that Vegas fans will want to reciprocate. I don't think it is something to just shrug off and finger wag like Murray is talking about. Something is getting to be systemically wrong here.

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29 minutes ago, renoskier said:

Bullshit! This kind of action is what makes rivalry games fun. Look at this thread as proof, 26 pages and climbing and almost none of it about the great football game that was played.

As Chris Murray writes in his "Monday Mailbag", which is always very long but a good/fun read, This is the first brawl since 1995, and everyone still remembers that. It was stupid but at the end of the day, no one was hurt.

http://nevadasportsnet.com/sports/mens-basketball/murrays-mailbag-what-the-hell-happened-in-nevada-and-unlvs-post-game-brawl

So this is what I'm supposed to say: Players fighting on the field is completely unacceptable and the penalties should be harsh. Nevada's Austin Arnold, who sparked the fight with the initial blindsiding of UNLV quarterback Kenyon Oblad, should be suspended. So should UNLV's Giovanni Fauolo Sr. for swinging his helmet at Nevada fans. It is unbecoming of both schools to have their student-athletes acting in such a manner. It's a poor representation of the universities and their communities. What am I supposed to tell my kids about what happened after the game? Couldn't the players keep their poise despite the emotional game? These guys are role models and set a horrible example. And what about the Nevada fan who ripped a helmet of the head of a UNLV player; and the fans who threw snowballs, beer bottles and soda cans at UNLV's players; and the fan who jumped onto the field to join the action; and the fans screaming obscenities and flipping off UNLV's coaches? They should be ashamed of themselves and some should be banned from Mackay Stadium for future games. They're all losers. Both UNLV and Nevada should be fully remorseful for their actions as both acted in ways unbecoming of our great state. Their post-game actions overshadowed what was an excellent game between two passionate teams. It is a black mark on the rivalry forever.

And this is what I'm not supposed to say but kind of feel: It was kind of cool, right? It's been a long time since Nevada and UNLV fought (the 1995 game), and that's the game everybody remembers from this rivalry. Everybody is going to remember this game forever because it went into overtime and then turned into chaos afterwards. Like, I know I'm not supposed to condone fighting, but it was kind of fun to see and nobody got hurt, so no harm, no foul, right? Yes, you have to suspend some people to send a message, but how great is next year's game going to be when the returning players face off again? It's going to be lit. I mean, I'm supposed to be OK with these teenagers blasting their bodies all game long without pay but get upset when they want to shove and throw a few punches like that's more dangerous than actually playing the game? And you ask, "What am I going to tell my kids?" Well, I'll just point to this game and tell them not to be an idiot on the field. I'll talk to them about the importance of poise and sportsmanship and ask whether they want to go viral online and across the national media for throwing a punch? "Do you want that to be your legacy? No, you don't. So don't act that way no matter how emotional you are." It will be a good lesson. And then I'll point to the fans' behavior and say, "If you ever act like that, I'm going to make you change your last name from 'Murray' because you're a moron." Wolf Pack fans made Reno as a city look like a joke. That's what I'll tell my kids. But, while I know we're not supposed to like fighting, one brawl every 25 years between these teams? Yeah, I'm good with that.

 

A shout-out to @Slapdad nice photoshop tweet, you should post it here if you haven't already!

Glad you enjoyed the tweet! It's included in the link above, but here's the pic. 

 

Tweet.JPG

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If I may summarize ...

Nevada fan: Yes, some of the behavior of our fans and players is unjustifiable, but UNLV players are hardly innocent. 

UNLV fan: We're innocent. Even if we did something that appears to be wrong, I am sure it was somebody else's fault. Besides, there was no proof UNLV players did anything wrong. Oh, there was proof? Well, I certainly don't need proof to assume that a Nevada fan started it.

Me: Which one of these seems more likely?

Almost everybody in the world: Reporters are biased if they report something that doesn't agree with my biases.

Boise fan: I don't know. I don't care. But +++++ Nevada.

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1 hour ago, SharkTanked said:

I'm so disgusted I am at the point where I think we need a break from the rivalry game. I am afraid this will keep escalating and Vegas fans will feel they need to respond to this. There just appears to be too much emotion involved for something that should just be a game and entertainment.

There are reasons I have never taken my kid to this game ... in Vegas or in Reno. It isn't exactly roses and pumpkin pie in Vegas either. Shit, the closest Nevada players have ever come to getting paid is on the sidelines of Sam Boyd as fans pluck them in the back of the helmet with pennies (this happens in other places, too. Teams playing at Montana could retire early on all the loose change. So much so, that few make a big deal about it). 

The biggest difference between Reno and most places is Mackay Stadium itself. The close proximity to the field in the end zones has always been a recipe for this kind of nonsense. And the fact that the opposing teams essentially have to walk through the crowd to get to their locker room is another. Add a little booze and a ton of emotion, which you really only see against UNLV and Boise, and shit like this happens every now and again.

That all said, the clutching of pearls is always a bit much. As Murray said, none of this was as violent as the game itself.

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6 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

There are reasons I have never taken my kid to this game ... in Vegas or in Reno. It isn't exactly roses and pumpkin pie in Vegas either. Shit, the closest Nevada players have ever come to getting paid is on the sidelines of Sam Boyd as fans pluck them in the back of the helmet with pennies (this happens in other places, too. Teams playing at Montana could retire early on all the loose change. So much so, that few make a big deal about it). 

The biggest difference between Reno and most places is Mackay Stadium itself. The close proximity to the field in the end zones has always been a recipe for this kind of nonsense. And the fact that the opposing teams essentially have to walk through the crowd to get to their locker room is another. Add a little booze and a ton of emotion, which you really only see against UNLV and Boise, and shit like this happens every now and again.

That all said, the clutching of pearls is always a bit much. As Murray said, none of this was as violent as the game itself.

I get that, and I have been to it in Vegas and don't go anymore because both fanbases are complete drunken idiots. All I am saying is lets nip it in the bud before it gets out of control. This seems like the closest it has gotten with fans going after player's equipment and players going after fans with their equipment. I think the thing needs to be put on ice before a fan hurts a player/coach or vice versa. But it looks like I'm in the minority on that. Guess we should wait until people really get hurt and pretend like we didn't see it coming.

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5 minutes ago, SharkTanked said:

I get that, and I have been to it in Vegas and don't go anymore because both fanbases are complete idiots. All I am saying is lets nip it in the bud before it gets out of control. This seems like the closest it has gotten with fans going after player's equipment and players going after fans with their equipment. I think the thing needs to be put on ice before a fan hurts a player/coach or vice versa.

Sure. But I just don't know what you do about it. Players will be suspended. I bet fans that can be identified will be banned. I know after the 95 game that they made a formal trophy presentation after the game, rather than players just running over to the opposing team's sideline to get the Fremont Cannon itself. That was a good change.

Keeping space between the fans in the south end zone and players would be a good thing. But I'm not sure it would have helped this time. The game ended right there, which meant UNLV's celebration was right in front of a bunch of fans pissed that they just lost the game a few seconds before in heartbreaking fashion. I don't know how you prevent that in the moment.

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3 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

Sure. But I just don't know what you do about it. Players will be suspended. I bet fans that can be identified will be banned. I know after the 95 game that they made a formal trophy presentation after the game, rather than players just running over to the opposing team's sideline to get the Fremont Cannon itself. That was a good change.

Keeping space between the fans in the south end zone and players would be a good thing. But I'm not sure it would have helped this time. The game ended right there, which meant UNLV's celebration was right in front of a bunch of fans pissed that they just lost the game a few seconds before in heartbreaking fashion. I don't know how you prevent that in the moment.

maybe we can put some netting up in the zonie section that way if somebody throws something it gets caught by the net.  Also that would prevent them from reaching out to touch the players.  

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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33 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

If I may summarize ...

Nevada fan: Yes, some of the behavior of our fans and players is unjustifiable, but UNLV players are hardly innocent. 

UNLV fan: We're innocent. Even if we did something that appears to be wrong, I am sure it was somebody else's fault. Besides, there was no proof UNLV players did anything wrong. Oh, there was proof? Well, I certainly don't need proof to assume that a Nevada fan started it.

Me: Which one of these seems more likely?

Almost everybody in the world: Reporters are biased if they report something that doesn't agree with my biases.

Boise fan: I don't know. I don't care. But +++++ Nevada.

Unanimously: Jordan Caroline did nothing wrong.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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Just now, mugtang said:

maybe we can put some netting up in the zonie section that way if somebody throws something it gets caught by the net.  Also that would prevent them from reaching out to touch the players.  

I'm guessing that blowing up Mackay and starting all over again is too much to ask? If so, then this is as good as anything, I guess. 

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2 minutes ago, battle.borne said:

Hey guys, if I could have your attention for a one second. I just saved a ton of money on my car insurance.  Ask me how!

Did you get a discount for driving around in a stolen UNLV football helmet?

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22 minutes ago, SharkTanked said:

I get that, and I have been to it in Vegas and don't go anymore because both fanbases are complete drunken idiots. All I am saying is lets nip it in the bud before it gets out of control. This seems like the closest it has gotten with fans going after player's equipment and players going after fans with their equipment. I think the thing needs to be put on ice before a fan hurts a player/coach or vice versa. But it looks like I'm in the minority on that. Guess we should wait until people really get hurt and pretend like we didn't see it coming.

This is football. This is why I can’t stand going to games. At any level. Hell, you want to see embarrassing go to a dodgers v giants baseball game. 

How many brawls were there at the high school level in Vegas this year? I’ve heard 8.

I used to get mad, or justify or even defend idiots like some of the zonies. The reality is there are morons in those stands that I wouldn’t take my kids to witness. Just like there are morons at Vegas who used to video themselves punching Nevada fans in the face and post on YouTube. That’s just how it is. 

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1 minute ago, NevadaFan said:

This is football. This is why I can’t stand going to games. At any level. Hell, you want to see embarrassing go to a dodgers v giants baseball game. 

How many brawls were there at the high school level in Vegas this year? I’ve heard 8.

I used to get mad, or justify or even defend idiots like some of the zonies. The reality is there are morons in those stands that I wouldn’t take my kids to witness. Just like there are morons at Vegas who used to video themselves punching Nevada fans in the face and post on YouTube. That’s just how it is. 

Very much this. And you're talking about Dodger Stadium, right? No way my upstanding fellow Giants fans would ever do something wrong. :ph34r:

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