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bornontheblue

Pocahontas is an idiot

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2 minutes ago, Akkula said:

Why do you think an investment that had a huge run up in the 80s but has been a dud lately shoild be kept?  Buy something that will go up now.  Just because America Online was a hot stock at one point doesnt mean it still is.  Ever heard of sunk costs?

Sunk costs are losses, not gains you rube. 

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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12 hours ago, Akkula said:

Taxing unrealized gains makes sense.  Mark to market makes sense.  It removes the distortionary need to hold onto a crappy investment because of an unrealized gain because you are worried about a tax hit.  The decision to buy or sell will be based on fundamentals vs taxes.

Explain to us how you would even realistically go about taxing an unrealized gain?

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2 hours ago, Wyobraska said:

Explain to us how you would even realistically go about taxing an unrealized gain?

Isn't the stock market open every day to give you the price of many assets?  Zillow?  Once an actual sale happens can't you true up tune calculation?  That sounds just as difficult as having a giant deferred tax liability following you year to year and tracking cost basis for old assets.   For the super rich the IRS could literally hire a full time auditor to work with them on valuations.

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14 minutes ago, Akkula said:

Isn't the stock market open every day to give you the price of many assets?  Zillow?  Once an actual sale happens can't you true up tune calculation?  That sounds just as difficult as having a giant deferred tax liability following you year to year and tracking cost basis for old assets.   For the super rich the IRS could literally hire a full time auditor to work with them on valuations.

You think there will be any super rich people in this country if that happens?

HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

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2 hours ago, bluerules009 said:

You think there will be any super rich people in this country if that happens?

HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

The USA taxes its citizens on worldwide income regardless of where in the world they live or house their assets.  Furthermore there is a large exit tax when wealthy people give up their citizenship and they could be barred from entering the usa in the future.  These issues are why a USA tax on wealth would work much better than countries that don't have this. It was wise of us to not allow the wealthy to jurisdiction shop for tax rates.  

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10 hours ago, Wyobraska said:

Explain to us how you would even realistically go about taxing an unrealized gain?

All your stuff are belong to us

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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11 hours ago, Wyobraska said:

Explain to us how you would even realistically go about taxing an unrealized gain?

You can't. In a Democratic Party campaign chock full of grand fiscal and economic fairy tales, the idea of taxing unrealized gains is among the grandest of all of them.

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7 minutes ago, Joe from WY said:

You can't. In a Democratic Party campaign chock full of fiscal and economic fairy tales, the idea of taxing unrealized gains is among the grandest of all of them.

Confiscating wealthy peoples assets is right up there with the above. 

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9 hours ago, Akkula said:

Isn't the stock market open every day to give you the price of many assets?  Zillow?  Once an actual sale happens can't you true up tune calculation?  That sounds just as difficult as having a giant deferred tax liability following you year to year and tracking cost basis for old assets.   For the super rich the IRS could literally hire a full time auditor to work with them on valuations.

Oh, the IRS could hire a personal regulator to focus on a particular private individual to make sure they’re in compliance? They would do that? That’s so sweet. How gracious of them.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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9 hours ago, Akkula said:

The USA taxes its citizens on worldwide income regardless of where in the world they live or house their assets.  Furthermore there is a large exit tax when wealthy people give up their citizenship and they could be barred from entering the usa in the future.  These issues are why a USA tax on wealth would work much better than countries that don't have this. It was wise of us to not allow the wealthy to jurisdiction shop for tax rates.  

So you become a citizen of another country.  There is no large exit tax, you are just making shit up now.

You are really too +++++ing dumb to even participate in a conversation with.

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44 minutes ago, bluerules009 said:

So you become a citizen of another country.  There is no large exit tax, you are just making shit up now.

You are really too +++++ing dumb to even participate in a conversation with.

He’s probably confusing Warren’s 40% exit tax with reality.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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45 minutes ago, bluerules009 said:

So you become a citizen of another country.  There is no large exit tax, you are just making shit up now.

You are really too +++++ing dumb to even participate in a conversation with.

Oh toolsy, you're wrong as usual. There is an exit tax if you renounce your US Citizenship, which is exactly like what @Akkula said. 

Quote

Giving up a U.S. passport is not to be taken lightly, nor is giving up a long term (8 years or more) green card. For some, there is even an IRS tax on your exit. You pay tax on all your income every year. The Exit Tax is like an estate tax on the gain in your assets, even though you are not actually selling anything. It is the IRS’s last chance to tax you.

The Exit Tax is computed as if you sold all your assets on the day before you expatriated, and had to report the gain.  Currently, net capital gains can be taxed as high as 23.8%, including the net investment income tax. For a time, Congress talked of hiking the tax to 30% after Eduardo Saverin of Facebook fame took off for Singapore. Still, 23.8% is nothing to sneeze at. There are three triggers for the Exit Tax, and any one of them will make you a “covered expatriate.”

First, is your net worth over $2 million? This is the aggregate net value of worldwide assets. It is not just your U.S. assets. For married taxpayers, each spouse’s net worth is calculated separately from the other. If they own their assets relatively equally, a married couple could have a total net worth of up to $4 million without triggering the Exit Tax.

On the other hand, if one spouse owns most of the assets, that spouse could be a covered expatriate, even if the other spouse owns significantly less than $2 million of assets. Thankfully, some couples can gift assets to each other to bring both spouses’ net worths to below $2 million. If the spouse receiving the gifts is a U.S. citizen, these gifts may escape U.S. gift tax.

Second, is your average net annual income tax liability over $162,000? This is not your taxable income, but your tax liability on that income. If you are married and filing taxes jointly, you must use your net tax liability on your joint returns, even if only one of you is expatriating. This trigger can sometimes be avoided with careful planning. Filing separate tax returns (not joint returns) often makes sense. As the trigger is your average tax liability over the last five years, you may need to file separately for several years before you expatriate.

The third way you can be a covered expatriate is if you do not (or cannot) certify five years of U.S. tax compliance. If you haven’t filed, or haven’t filed properly—say you didn’t report an offshore bank account—you will need to fix that too. Fortunately, you can amend your prior tax returns (and other forms) and simultaneously also file a Form 8854 to expatriate. In effect, you sign your Form 8854 last, after you’ve signed the amended tax documents.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2017/02/27/renounce-u-s-heres-how-irs-computes-exit-tax/#2c9b4587287d

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12 hours ago, Akkula said:

Isn't the stock market open every day to give you the price of many assets?  Zillow?  Once an actual sale happens can't you true up tune calculation?  That sounds just as difficult as having a giant deferred tax liability following you year to year and tracking cost basis for old assets.   For the super rich the IRS could literally hire a full time auditor to work with them on valuations.

I have to wonder if if you have ever actually bought equities and held them.  You will force people to hold cash in reserve to pay your stupid tax or you will force them to sell before they want to in order to generate cash for your stupid tax.  Will folks be able to get a tax credit on unrealized losses?  Will it just be on the net of unrealized gains/losses?  What if you are down one year, get the credit, then the stock goes up the next year?  Only a Democrat would put us on some sort of tax roller coaster.  What nightmare.

I am fairly certain she knows this is unworkable.  It is just more evidence that her strategy is extreme class warfare and that she will say anything to get elected.  Medicare for everyone (including illegals) anyone?  Don't worry, your taxes won't go up.  If a Republican said things this stupid the press would run them out of town.

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2 hours ago, BYUcougfan said:

I have to wonder if if you have ever actually bought equities and held them.  You will force people to hold cash in reserve to pay your stupid tax or you will force them to sell before they want to in order to generate cash for your stupid tax.  Will folks be able to get a tax credit on unrealized losses?  Will it just be on the net of unrealized gains/losses?  What if you are down one year, get the credit, then the stock goes up the next year?  Only a Democrat would put us on some sort of tax roller coaster.  What nightmare.

I am fairly certain she knows this is unworkable.  It is just more evidence that her strategy is extreme class warfare and that she will say anything to get elected.  Medicare for everyone (including illegals) anyone?  Don't worry, your taxes won't go up.  If a Republican said things this stupid the press would run them out of town.

Lots of easy ways around it.   Perhaps the tax on deferred gains only kicks in above a certain income level.   Perhaps you just calculate the tax every year but certain low wealth taxpayers can defer payment.  People are sick of this new gilded age so that is why proposals that level the playing field like the wealth tax are so popular. 

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2 hours ago, retrofade said:

Oh toolsy, you're wrong as usual. There is an exit tax if you renounce your US Citizenship, which is exactly like what @Akkula said. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2017/02/27/renounce-u-s-heres-how-irs-computes-exit-tax/#2c9b4587287d

I am glad I was able to teach @bluerules009 something new today. B)

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3 hours ago, retrofade said:

Oh toolsy, you're wrong as usual. There is an exit tax if you renounce your US Citizenship, which is exactly like what @Akkula said. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2017/02/27/renounce-u-s-heres-how-irs-computes-exit-tax/#2c9b4587287d

You still have to meet one of the triggers for it to come into play though. It isn't automatically assessed and there's tons of workarounds to it.

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