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westfan

The Impeachment Inquiry Hearings Wednesday

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2 hours ago, Rebelbacker said:

No. A whistleblower only has the guarantee that they will not have retribution taken on them by their employer. None has. 

An impeachment inquiry is in no way similar to a grand jury. They do not focus on the actions of public officials except in rare public corruption investigations, and even in those cases the issue is the alleged criminal behavior, not the status of the suspect. 

Americans are presumed innocent until proven guilty of a criminal offense after a trial or guilty plea, with all the due process protections that apply. If grand jury proceedings were public, it would undermine the presumption of innocence by suggesting that law enforcement officials believed the suspect was guilty.

In a criminal case, the court is entitled to every person’s evidence. If a witness possesses information relevant to a criminal investigation, our law allows prosecutors to issue a subpoena compelling the witness to provide testimony and produce documents and other physical evidence. Grand jury secrecy promotes the fulfillment of this obligation by witnesses who might otherwise defy subpoenas out of fear of retribution from violent criminals.

An impeachment inquiry is nothing like this. It is not a criminal investigation in anticipation of judicial proceedings. It is strictly a political matter. It involves Congress inquiring into the public actions of public officials granted public authority and underwritten by public funding. The presumption of innocence applies to crime. Under the Constitution, Congress does not need to find a crime in order to impeach a public official. Impeachment deals with whether the official is fit for an office of public trust, not whether the official committed a criminal offense.

Grand juries are presumptively impartial. The grand jury exists as a constitutional protection: Before the state may charge an American with a crime, it must satisfy a body of objective citizens that there is sufficient evidence (probable cause) to proceed to trial.

In contrast, an impeachment inquiry is a political inquest conducted by partisans. There is no pretense of objectivity. And the Trump impeachment inquiry is as partisan as it gets. Does anyone believe that Adam Schiff is impartial? We are talking, remember, about the same Adam Schiff who started the Trump presidency spouting allegations from the BS Steele dossier, and more recently started his impeachment proceedings with a caricature of the Trump-Zelensky phone call that was a straight up lie..

If they were basing the articles of impeachment on the testimony of the whistleblower I would agree.  They are not.  Who the whistleblower is and what their motivation is... is as irrelevant as whom deep throat was and what his motivation was.   

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1 hour ago, sactowndog said:

If they were basing the articles of impeachment on the testimony of the whistleblower I would agree.  They are not.  Who the whistleblower is and what their motivation is... is as irrelevant as whom deep throat was and what his motivation was.   

Great analogy.

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Image result for Picture of Andrew Johnson, Nixon, Clinton and Trump

Nixon wasn't officially impeached because he saw the writing on the wall and resigned first.:surrender:

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11 hours ago, crixus said:

Image result for Picture of Andrew Johnson, Nixon, Clinton and Trump

Nixon wasn't officially impeached because he saw the writing on the wall and resigned first. :surrender:

I forget..........was Nixon impeached in the House but resigned before the Senate convicted or did he resign when he saw the House would vote to impeach !??!

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2 hours ago, UNLV2001 said:

I forget..........was Nixon impeached in the House but resigned before the Senate convicted or did he resign when he saw the House would vote to impeach !??!

Nixon was informed by Republican leaders just before an impeachment vote was taken in the House that not only would the vote send articles of impeachment to the Senate, more than 2/3 of the Senate would vote to remove him from office. I was no huge fan of Nixon but to his credit, after he heard that he could read the tea leaves and so resigned not only to take the pressure off himself (he had been hospitalized for exhaustion not too long before that), he resigned for the good of the country. Or as Gerald Ford later put it, Nixon did so to end "our national nightmare."

Would Trump have done so under such circumstances? I highly doubt it. For all his faults, Nixon really cared about our country whereas Mr. Grumpy cares about nothing except himself.

Boom goes the dynamite.

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1 minute ago, SleepingGiantFan said:

Nixon was informed by Republican leaders just before an impeachment vote was taken in the House that not only would the vote send articles of impeachment to the Senate, more than 2/3 of the Senate would vote to remove him from office. I was no huge fan of Nixon but to his credit, he after he heard that he could read the tea leaves and resigned not only to take the pressure off himself (he had been hospitalized for a week not too long before that), he resigned for the good of the country. Or as Gerald Ford later said, Nixon did so to end "our national nightmare."

Would Trump have done so under such circumstances? I highly doubt it. For all his faults, Nixon really cared about our country whereas Mr. Grumpy cares about nothing except himself.

Knew Nixon was told he was toast and reginged, but forget of it even got past the House first - As to trump this is where we are in uncharted territory ...........he's out for himself and if the country goes down in flames then he'd be fine with it - The republican party of the 1970's put country over party........the GOP of 2019 has become a cult of trump and no way do I see enough GOP Senate votes to oust trump..............if trump is acquitted in the Senate, then he will declare victory and it's open season for whatever he thinks he can get away with if he gets a 2nd term.............and even if he's voted out in 2020, I'm not sure he would willingly leave office, as he's & his delusional cult members will not take the election results unless trump wins in a landslide, anything less will be seen as fixed, the deep state and on and on with conspiracies - then things could get real crazy 

Personally I'd rather just see trump kicked to the curb by voters in 2020 and we have a normal transition of power...........but with this mental case I'm ready for any whacko result 

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