Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

BSUTOP25

OT: UCF is absolute garbage. They’d be a .500 team in the MWC.

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, Wyobraska said:

That's all well and good but UCF is not in a Power 5 conference.  Florida is in the SEC, the premier conference.  Miami and FSU put kids in the NFL like crazy.  UCF will never be the premier Florida school.  Too much working against it.

Florida U holds all the cards.  Florida U, Florida State, and Miami are P5.  To be part of the conversation, UCF needs to schedule all three schools.  Swallow your pride and do a 2-1 with the Gators.  UCF doesn' have to beat all 3 schools for a series of years.  Just play them and get some Ws and be part of the conversation.

Florida is currently ranked #10 in the nation.  Only LSU, Alabama, and Georgia are ranked above Florida in the SEC.  Play Florida and beat them.....and, in essence, UCF would have the status of #4 in SEC ahead of 10 other SEC teams and #10 in the nation.  But, first, UCF has got to get the Gators on their schedule.

Ditto for Boise State 2-1 deal with #7 Oregon.  Let BSU beat Oregon, the PAC's #1 team, and that makes the Broncos top dog of the PAC 12.

Let's face reality here.  These nonconference P5 games, whether 1-1 or 2-1, are better and much more meaningful and generate much more fan interest and money than the end of season bowl games where we P5 guys essentially play our fellow P5 colleagues.....or the bottom of the toilet #9 conference P5 team.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Ibanez said:

The point is Tulsa doesn't have to try.  The schools call them.

In the past, surrounding schools did not call Tulsa.  It made all the sense in the world to call Tulsa as travel costs and travel time were minimal and fans could drive to close by Tulsa and enjoy an away game, an additional game to follow their school that they could see and enjoy.  The OSU, OU, and Arkansas contracts represent a huge change of heart by these three schools.  My guess is that Tulsa's membership in AAC, the exposure provided by the AAC TV contract, and the success AAC has enjoyed helped changed attitudes of surrounding schools. 

Tulsa did do one thing--Tulsa U told OSU it would not do any 2-1 or 3-5 contracts.  It had to be home and home.  OSU finally relented.  And when OSU did the 4-4 contract, that might have facilitated the OU and Arkansas contracts.  Who knows? 

The 2-1 contract with Arkansas was the HUGE SURPRISE.  It knocked many Tulsa fans off their feet that the Pigs finally relented after all these decades of refusing to come to Tulsa.  At one time, the Tulsa/Arkansas series was the longest continual rivalry (without interruption) west of the Mississippi.  The most frequently played nonconference team played by the Pigs is Tulsa.

Oklahoma U has scheduled Tulsa from time to time in the past.  OSU and Tulsa have played many times in the past.

If these three teams bring 10,000 excited and cheering fans, that's great!  It sells out the football stadium. At $90 per ticket, that is about $2.5 million added to the Tulsa athletic budget.

At $30 a ticket which is in the range of what most G5 teams charge, it would take 84,000 fannies in the football stadium to generate $2.5 million...or, as another way to look at it, three home football games.

Norman:  106 miles

Stillwater:  63 miles

Fayetteville:  111 miles

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tulsa is 7-1 against UCF in the last eight games.  UCF has 66,183 students.  Tulsa U has only 4,412 students.  So UCF is 15 times larger than Tulsa.

The mistake everyone makes in judging Tulsa U is to judge TU athletics by the number of its students. Tulsa is a pizz ant size school with 4,412 students.  Therefore, most people reason that Tulsa U must have a pizz ant quality football team?  Wrong!

Instead, judge Tulsa (and every other school) by the size of its recruiting base.  California has 40 million people.  It is 502 miles from San Francisco to San Diego in this recruiting mecca.

Texas and Oklahoma have a combined population of 33 million. It is 494 miles from Tulsa to Houston in this recruiting mecca.

Tulsa has 64 football players on its squad from Texas.  Oklahoma produces more IA college football players than New Mexico, Wyoming, and Nevada combined.  Oklahoma U has gone national in its recruiting and so has Oklahoma State but not to the extent that Oklahoma U has.  It leaves a lot of Oklahoma kids available for Tulsa to recruit, although TU is facing increasing competition for Oklahoma kids from Texas B12 and AAC schools.

Tulsa hits Oklahoma and Texas first in recruiting and then fills out the class with players from adjacent states Louisiana, Arkansas, Missouri, and Kansas.  These four states have a combined population of 17 million.

So the combined recruiting base for Tulsa is 50 million.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Image result for ucf national champions ring :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, crixus said:

Image result for ucf national champions ring :rolleyes:

Thank you for posting this.  It is the best counter to the argument presented in this thread which is entitled UCF is a garbage team and the would be a .500 team in MWC.  The ring also brings up a few points regarding the AAC.

First, the AAC has breadth to it.  UCF and Houston have played in and won NY6 Bowls.  It appears AAC has a good shot at putting a third AAC team into a NY6 Bowl, either Memphis or Cincinnati. So AAC may have three teams in NY6 Bowls, UCF, Houston, and perhaps either Memphis or Cincinnati. 

Second, the AAC has depth to it.  ECU, like Tulsa, has struggled in recent years and has a nonwinning record.  But it took a field goal as time ran out in order for #17 Cincinnati to beat 3-6 ECU.  Then, the following week, 3-7 ECU gave #20 SMU a tussle with the game decided in the final minutes, losing only 59-51.  Tulsa lost by a missed field goal to #20 SMU and #18 Memphis, and beat UCF.  There is no deadweight at the bottom half of the AAC, especially so with UConn no longer playing football in AAC.

Its been a tremendous year for the AAC.  Temple beat two P5 teams in nonconference play, Tulane is headed for its second bowl in a row, and SMU has turned its program completely around.

Third, all this is strengthening Aresco's pushing P6 status for AAC.  What Aresco is saying is that AAC Champion will always be excluded from the 4 team National Playoff....but that AAC has a chance to be automatically included as a contract conference in an 8 team national playoff, and certainly in the 6 NYD bowls involving 12 teams.

A reporter from the Daily Oklahoman asked Football Coach Les Miles a trick question some time ago when Miles coached the Oklahoma State Cowboys.  The reporter asked "Can OSU win national championships like OU?  It was a trick question.  Say no, and it creates a self inflicted negative pall over the entire football program and kills fan support.  Say yes, and it sets up a situation where OSU would be mocked and create an incentive for other teams to play their guts out and beat OSU.  So it was a trick question.

Miles thought for a while and was silent...and then he answered:  "Our goal at Oklahoma State is to win a conference championship.  And any team winning a B12 conference championship, it automatically puts that B12 conference champion in running for a national title."

With UConn gone, it is my belief that all 11 AAC teams have the capability of winning a conference title.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tulsa is a parasite. It does not contribute financially to the AAC and would  not do so in the MWC. Tulsa Guy compares his programs to UCFs, biting the hand that feeds his terrible programs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, since1670 said:

Tulsa is a parasite. It does not contribute financially to the AAC and would  not do so in the MWC. Tulsa Guy compares his programs to UCFs, biting the hand that feeds his terrible programs.

All time series:  Houston has won 24 games;  Tulsa has won 19 games.

See ya in two weeks!

Houston Student Enrollment:  45,364

Tulsa Student Enrollment:  4,412

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Tulsa Guy said:

All time series:  Houston has won 24 games;  Tulsa has won 19 games.

See ya Saturday!

does that include when UH beat Tulsa 100-6?  How about the 82-28 game?

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, RSF said:

does that include when UH beat Tulsa 100-6?  How about the 82-28 game?

Thank you for your deep interest and continuing interest in Tulsa football.  But you didn't do all your homework.

The Tulsa team came down with food poisoning at Houston, where the game was played. Tulsa players, weakened by food poisoning, were throwing up on the football field during the game.  Everyone in the stadium could see what was going on.  Still, Houston chose to run up the score.  Houston has a well deserved reputation for being a classless program running up the score, not only on Tulsa, but other teams as well.  That 100-6 score now forever haunts Houston...and not Tulsa.

A heathy Tulsa played a healthy Houston in 2007 and won 56-7. 

So try another flame...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tulsa Guy said:

 

Third, all this is strengthening Aresco's pushing P6 status for AAC.  What Aresco is saying is that AAC Champion will always be excluded from the 4 team National Playoff....but that AAC has a chance to be automatically included as a contract conference in an 8 team national playoff, and certainly in the 6 NYD bowls involving 12 teams.

With UConn gone, it is my belief that all 11 AAC teams have the capability of winning a conference title.

 

To the first paragraph, yes the AAC has been the better G5 conference over the last two seasons. To make the claim that it makes you deserving of permanent NY6 status, well ..........

Conference strength rises and falls even within a decade. Talk to me in another five years.

To the second paragraph:

No, losing UConn does not make your conference better. It means one less W for the upper tier of the league.

MW fans have been discussing for years losing UNLV, New Mexico, Sparty and at one time San Diego St was in that conversation about conference boat anchors. All getting rid of the weak teams does is cause the rest of the conference to finish around .500.

"We don't have evidence but, we have lot's of theories."

Americans Mayor

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Spaztecs said:

To the first paragraph, yes the AAC has been the better G5 conference over the last two seasons. To make the claim that it makes you deserving of permanent NY6 status, well ..........

 

Not even that long.  MWC had better overall numbers last year.

 

What Tulsa Guy, among others, have never grasped is that 'power' status, 'contract' status, is determined in the marketplace, not on the field.  And the NY6 bowls and ESPN have already made the determination that the AAC is not worthy.  That 'game-changing' TV deal is the proof.  In a way, Don Aresco screwed himself and the conference by agreeing to such a long deal.  If he really had any confidence in his ability to change things, he wouldnt have done that.  Of course, at his age he probably wasnt interested in the long term.  He wanted something he could spin to cement his legacy.

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, since1670 said:

Nothing will stop Tulsa from being a parasite. Oh, maybe bankruptcy.

https://www.city-journal.org/university-of-tulsa

Former TU President Steadman got carried away with himself, started new programs, and over committed and over spent.  Steadman, a former college scholarship basketball player, was an enthusiastic supporter of Tulsa athletics.  But Steadman badly hurt the university overall with his financial mismanagement.  Tulsa never should have gotten involved with taking on the management of the Gilcrease Museum but Steadman thought that was a plus to the university's image.  Tulsa administration has and is taking steps to bring the university's spending within the budget.  Everyone in Oklahoma knows this.  That is why Oklahoma State, University of Oklahoma, and Arkansas scheduled football games into the future with Tulsa.  Tulsa this year enrolled its largest freshman class ever.

Given its limited positives, no school has done more with less than the U of Tulsa whether academics or sports.

Given its many positives, no school has squandered its opportunities as U of Houston.  But U of Houston has Texas tax dollars to cover the tab.  Sports bankruptcy and parasite is getting you rear end excluded from the Big 12....your Texas brothers don't think much of Houston, that's for sure.

Tulsa has 14 games scheduled with B12 and SEC (Oklahoma U, Oklahoma State, and Arkansas) over the next 8 years.  But Houston has only 3 games with Texas Tech and Kansas during that same time span and no other B12 or SEC team scheduled.  Pity.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, RSF said:

Not even that long.  MWC had better overall numbers last year.

 

What Tulsa Guy, among others, have never grasped is that 'power' status, 'contract' status, is determined in the marketplace, not on the field.  And the NY6 bowls and ESPN have already made the determination that the AAC is not worthy.  That 'game-changing' TV deal is the proof.  In a way, Don Aresco screwed himself and the conference by agreeing to such a long deal.  If he really had any confidence in his ability to change things, he wouldnt have done that.  Of course, at his age he probably wasnt interested in the long term.  He wanted something he could spin to cement his legacy.

Aresco is a tireless and energetic spokesman for AAC.  AAC has four ranked teams and that is with perennial powers UCF and Houston having down years. 

Regarding marketplace by which I assume is a reference to the conference TV contract, Aresco points out that PAC makes about half of B1G....but PAC is not excluded from P5 based on money considerations.  Aresco also points out that the AAC has outperformed the old Big East which had BCS status.  None of the old Big East teams are ranked today except Cincinnati but AAC has four ranked teams.  The man is tireless and full of energy. Aresco's strategy is to win the P6 argument in the public arena with a sense of fair play....and not let P5 get away with its monopolistic powers in back room deals.

On this issue of fair play that Areco is arguing, it appears an unranked Wake Forest is headed to the Orange Bowl.  That's not fair! I am sure Aresco will hit on that.

Aresco is getting public attention on this issue, that's for sure.  Aresco sure has your attention, and that's for sure too.

P6 status not only benefits AAC, it also benefits MWC.  In the current situation, both conferences are battling for that one NY6 Bowl Spot.  But if AAC had P6 status, then MWC in most years without question would get the NY6 spot reserved for G4 conferences.

It has been forgotten but very very early on Aresco proposed urged the creation of an additional bowl, that is, NY6 would become NY7.  And so the top 13 P6 teams and a representative from the G4 would rotate among these 7 bowls.  Once every 7 years, the MWC and AAC champions would be pitted against each other....nothing wrong with that and it would be an interesting game.  Aresco has not talked about it much in a long while.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Tulsa Guy said:

 

Tulsa has 14 games scheduled with B12 and SEC (Oklahoma U, Oklahoma State, and Arkansas) over the next 8 years.  But Houston has only 3 games with Texas Tech and Kansas during that same time span and no other B12 or SEC team scheduled.  Pity.

 

When did Vanderbilt leave the SEC?  And the Pac 12, I guess doesnt count.  And Tulsa only has 12 P5 games in the next 8 years (UH has 10).  Learn to count.

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Tulsa Guy said:

Aresco is a tireless and energetic spokesman for AAC.  AAC has four ranked teams and that is with perennial powers UCF and Houston having down years. 

 

Perennial.  Thats funny.

 

5 hours ago, Tulsa Guy said:

 

Regarding marketplace by which I assume is a reference to the conference TV contract, Aresco points out that PAC makes about half of B1G....but PAC is not excluded from P5 based on money considerations.  Aresco also points out that the AAC has outperformed the old Big East which had BCS status.  None of the old Big East teams are ranked today except Cincinnati but AAC has four ranked teams.  The man is tireless and full of energy. Aresco's strategy is to win the P6 argument in the public arena with a sense of fair play....and not let P5 get away with its monopolistic powers in back room deals.

 

The Pac 12 makes 7x the money the AAC does.  Thats why they are INcluded.

The AAC never outperformed the old Big East, which had Miami, VaTech, etc.

There is no P6 argument.  

 

5 hours ago, Tulsa Guy said:

 

On this issue of fair play that Areco is arguing, it appears an unranked Wake Forest is headed to the Orange Bowl.  That's not fair! I am sure Aresco will hit on that.

 

Nobody will listen.  Nobody will care.

 

And Wake Forest is ranked currently.  The Orange Bowl can choose whomever they want to replace Clemson, if it is necessary.  Because thats who they wanted - the ACC.  Not the AAC.  More of that marketplace stuff.

 

5 hours ago, Tulsa Guy said:

 

Aresco is getting public attention on this issue, that's for sure.  Aresco sure has your attention, and that's for sure too.

 

He's getting no attention.  And I'm just having fun shooting holes in your arguments.  Fish in a barrel and all that.  It's a nice little time waster.  So thanks.

 

 

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, RSF said:

Oklahoma State, 8 games, 4 @Tulsa and 4 @Stillwater

Oklahoma, 3 games, 1 @Tulsa and 2 @Norman

Arkansas, 3 games, 1 @Tulsa and 2 @Fayetteville.

8 + 3 +3 = 14 games and not 12.

Oklahoma State and Tulsa in 2019, 2020, and 2021 are a previous contract, one game in Tulsa (2019) and two games in Stillwater (2020 and 2021).  It was at this point that Tulsa informed OSU that Tulsa would only do home and home in the future.....and OSU relented and did the 8 game deal, 4 home and 4 away.  The 8 game contract begins in 2024.

Historically, the largest home attendance for OSU have been Oklahoma U and Tulsa.  OSU, OU, and Arkansas will bring fans to Tulsa.  But don't forget Tulsa will bring fans to OSU, OU, and Arkansas.  Its a good deal for everyone around.

These games against our nearby P5 rivals are the most important games for Tulsa.  They are important for exposure in the state and region.  They are important financially.  They are important for recruiting in the state and area.

That is why I have not listed the other P5 games Tulsa has scheduled in this thread.  But, of course, they are very important too.  I am glad Houston was able to schedule PAC teams since they couldn't get close by B12 and SEC teams on the schedule as Tulsa has.

I did not find Wake Forest in the AP or Coaches Poll.

The Big East retained its BCS status after the departure of Miami, Va Tech, and I think Boston College.  It was after the ACC came back a second time to take Pitt, Syracuse, and Louisville that everything collapsed for old Big East football.

As of today, Miami, Va Tech, Boston College, Pitt, Syracuse, UConn and Louisville are not ranked.  The only former Big East school that is ranked is AAC member Cincinnati.

If PAC's TV contract is 7 times higher than ACC, then the PAC TV contract would have to be $49M annually per PAC school which is of course incorrect.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, RSF said:

Perennial.  Thats funny.

 

The Pac 12 makes 7x the money the AAC does.  Thats why they are INcluded.

The AAC never outperformed the old Big East, which had Miami, VaTech, etc.

There is no P6 argument.  

 

Nobody will listen.  Nobody will care.

 

And Wake Forest is ranked currently.  The Orange Bowl can choose whomever they want to replace Clemson, if it is necessary.  Because thats who they wanted - the ACC.  Not the AAC.  More of that marketplace stuff.

 

He's getting no attention.  And I'm just having fun shooting holes in your arguments.  Fish in a barrel and all that.  It's a nice little time waster.  So thanks.

 

 

The Pac12 makes 7 times what the AAC makes?   Not sure how you got there.  They are closer to 10 times the current AAC money in 2019, but that gap will fall to just 3X in 2020.  For the record, the Pac12 gets about 20 million a team from media deals with FOX and ESPN. They only make an extra million or two each from the Pac12 network.  That’s nowhere near 49 million each.  The Big10 doesnt  even make that much from media.  In the old BCS system, the other AQ conference teams were making 15 million each or so from media while the Big East teams only made about 4 million each.  So, a gap of 3-4X between power conferences is not unprecedented.  

That said, the difference in media pay is probably the easiest hurdle for the AAC to clear to be considered a power conference.  Major bowl access, average attendance, and autonomous powers are all much tougher hills to climb in its effort to be considered a power conference.  It’s nowhere near where it needs to be in those categories.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, CaffeinatedCoog said:

The Pac12 makes 7 times what the AAC makes?   Not sure how you got there.  They are closer to 10 times the current AAC money in 2019, but that gap will fall to just 3X in 2020.  For the record, the Pac12 gets about 20 million a team from media deals with FOX and ESPN. They only make an extra million or two each from the Pac12 network.  That’s nowhere near 49 million each.  The Big10 doesnt  even make that much from media.  In the old BCS system, the other AQ conference teams were making 15 million each or so from media while the Big East teams only made about 4 million each.  So, a gap of 3-4X between power conferences is not unprecedented.  

That said, the difference in media pay is probably the easiest hurdle for the AAC to clear to be considered a power conference.  Major bowl access, average attendance, and autonomous powers are all much tougher hills to climb in its effort to be considered a power conference.  It’s nowhere near where it needs to be in those categories.  

MWC, with Utah, BYU, and TCU, was banging on the doors for BCS status and no one thought that was unreasonable.  MWC' case was never scoffed at for being unreasonable.  So I don't think that, given what AAC has accomplished so far, that Aresco pushing the P6 narrative is unreasonable.

Aresco just stated, in a very recent interview, that a football only school would be considered for AAC membership.  While Aresco has also stated that AAC is not out inviting schools to apply to join like the B12 circus, the statement that a football only school would be considered for AAC membership is obviously aimed at BYU, Boise State, and San Diego State.  Any one of these three schools would strengthen AAC's case for P6 status.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Tulsa Guy said:

MWC, with Utah, BYU, and TCU, was banging on the doors for BCS status and no one thought that was unreasonable.  MWC' case was never scoffed at for being unreasonable.  So I don't think that, given what AAC has accomplished so far, that Aresco pushing the P6 narrative is unreasonable cause.

Aresco just stated, in a recent interview, that a football only school would be considered for AAC membership.  While Aresco has also stated that AAC is not out inviting schools to apply to join like the B12 circus, the statement that a football only school would be considered for AAC membership is obviously aimed at BYU, Boise State, and San Diego State.  Any one of these three schools would strengthen AAC's case for P6 status.

The AAC is not nearly as good as the MWC with TCU and Utah.  They don't have a program at the top as good as those teams, or remotely close actually.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...