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Tulsa Guy

Big 12 Explains Moving OSU/KSU to ESPN+. MWC TV contract implications?

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9 hours ago, Ibanez said:

Sorry, I see past his bullshit. And all of the other AAC fans who come here with their BS. 

Well, his bullshit isn't "all" bullshit; it's just "mostly" bullshit.  The AAC deal with ESPN+ and the Big12's deal are not really all that comparable.  The Big 12's deal is for Tier 3 only and, this year, it only covers 4 Big 12 teams.  So, not much stuff is actually showing up there this year, and even when they add 4 more teams next year (not including OU or UT), it still will only mean 1 football game per school per year.  Usually, that'll be the FCS game (like TCU-Arkansas Pine-Bluff although TCU is not one of the 4 teams on ESPN+ this season).  So, with virtually nothing showing up this year, the Big 12 agreed to allow the OSU-KSU game this time so as to give ESPN something that they can market this year and possibly drum up subscribers.  After all, ESPN is paying us $2.3 million per school, per year for the Tier 3 stuff - they are entitled to get something.  That's in addition to the $38.9 million the Big 12 currently gets from Tiers 1 and 2, which show up on real TV.

By contrast, the AAC's deal with ESPN+ includes over 50% of their total games.  And they'll get $5 million or so for 14 years; escalating to an average of $7 million over the full life of the deal (minus production costs).  The AAC doesn't really have 3 tiers like the P5 conferences do - that's their total deal.  Their top games will show up on other platforms, but their poor-to-average schools will be relegated to ESPN+ for most of their games.  There is a night and day difference between the two deals.  To lump them together at this stage is misleading.  The Big 12 does have an interest in seeing ESPN+ succeed - and that's why it's throwing a bone to them this year.  Over the long run, maybe it'll grow.  I might subscribe next year (when TCU joins up) because that is the only way I'll get to see our FCS game.  But there's a reason an AAC fan is touting this and not a Big 12 fan.  The AAC is very interested in seeing it succeed; the Big 12 only marginally so and only as an adjunct to its much bigger deals.

 

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10 hours ago, Jared said:

 So, with virtually nothing showing up this year, the Big 12 agreed to allow the OSU-KSU game this time so as to give ESPN something that they can market this year and possibly drum up subscribers.  After all, ESPN is paying us $2.3 million per school, per year for the Tier 3 stuff - they are entitled to get something.

The Big 12 does have an interest in seeing ESPN+ succeed - and that's why it's throwing a bone to them this year.  Over the long run, maybe it'll grow.  I might subscribe next year (when TCU joins up) because that is the only way I'll get to see our FCS game.  But there's a reason an AAC fan is touting this and not a Big 12 fan.  The AAC is very interested in seeing it succeed; the Big 12 only marginally so and only as an adjunct to its much bigger deals.

 

SEC and B1G have TV power and can flaunt it with the various broadcast outlets.  Not so the B12.  Recall that FOX dumped the B12 Championship Game that it was broadcasting every other year in conjunction with ESPN because FOX was losing money on it.  Can you envision the SEC Championship game or the B1G Championship game + tv games being dropped as what happened to B12?  B12 threw ESPN a bone?  Really?

Oklahoma State had the McNeese game and now KSU on ESPN+, which is 1/3 of OSU's home games.  My guess is you are going to see more of that for all B12 schools and see it sooner rather than later.  1/3 is not too different than AAC's 1/2.

I cited AAC and B12, the two conferences with the two newest contracts with ESPN, not for monies involved but the direction of broadcasting--from linear to digital via ESPN+.  I did not make any other comparisons including monies involved.

The Big 12 is only marginally interested in ESPN+?  Really?   All Big 12 public announcements out of the commissioner's office are totally opposite of your statement.  To repeat myself, the B12 does not have the TV cache that SEC and B1G have.   That, and throw in the fact of the Longhorn Network, the B12 has never even come close to developing a conference wide TV network that it desparately wanted as SEC, B1G, ACC, and PAC.  Big 12 simply has no bones to throw to anyone.  The B12 commissioner and the B12 Athletic Directors have been touting the ESPN+ as a "conference network" that is better than the other P4 conference networks because it allows much, much, much more programming for each and every school.

I am going to repeat something I posted previously.  Oklahoma State built a $9M studio and broadcast facilities located in T. Boone Pickens Football Stadium.  OSU was producing programs but could not get them broadcasted.  Why?  FOX Sports Southwest and FOX Sports Oklahoma carried programming from Dallas Cowboys, Texas Rangers, and the Oklahoma Sooner Sports Network.  There was very little space left for Oklahoma State and their programming.  Not true anymore with ESPN+.  Oklahoma State is absolutely delighted with ESPN+.  Oklahoma State will now have more programming available to its fans than the Longhorn Network and the OU Sports Network. 

Oklahoma State is also thrilled because now its strong wrestling program, almost totally shut out of tv broadcasts, will have each and ever wrestling match on ESPN+.

And my hope was realized. Based on an article in the Oklahoma media, all sports telecasts will be archived for later viewing.

The various media in Oklahoma have had a ton of articles regarding the shifting of OSU/KSU to ESPN+ and many articles about ESPN+.  There was one interesting story.  ESPN introduced ESPN2 but it wasn't being picked up by the various cable and satellite outlets.  So what did ESPN do?  ESPN shifted some of their top games from ESPN to ESPN2!   This shifting of the OSU/KSU game to ESPN+ is historic....it is the first true college game of national interest  from linear to digital.  As the article stated, today there is no differentiation between ESPN and ESPN2.  So ESPN is using the same strategy for ESPN+.

There is even a bigger indicator of the shift from linear to ESPN+.  Many of the better B12 basketball games have shifted to ESPN+ this season.  For example, the Georgetown at Oklahoma State basketball game will be on ESPN+.  The shift to ESPN+ is happening quicker than any of us every thought.

For the Non-P5 schools and TCU and Oklahoma State, ESPN+ is a game changer and gives all schools a more equal footing to school like Texas and Oklahoma.

SMU will benefit greatly from ESPN+, and I suspect that is the source of your angst.  ESPN+ helps close the recruiting gap between P5 and G5 schools.  ESPN+ will reduce the recruiting advantage the PAC with its conference network has over MWC currently when MWC renegotiates its tv contract.

The AAC has greatly benefited from ESPN+ and so will MWC.

It will be interesting to watch this ESPN+ play out.  I just wonder, for example, if more spaces on linear TV will become available to the Non-P5 schools as P5 games are shifted to ESPN+ similar to SEC, B1g, PAC, and ACC games shifted to their conference networks?  AAC increased its linear tv broadcast about 50% in its just completed contract and I have to think TV space made available by the conference networks played into this.  I am guessing ESPN+ will make more linear tv spots available for G5 schools.

The AAC has greatly benefited from ESPN+ and without a doubt so will MWC.  All the benefits realized by AAC and B12 from ESPN+ will also be realized by MWC.

 

 

 

 

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Guest #1Stunner
1 hour ago, Tulsa Guy said:

SEC and B1G have TV power and can flaunt it with the various broadcast outlets.  Not so the B12.  Recall that FOX dumped the B12 Championship Game that it was broadcasting every other year in conjunction with ESPN because FOX was losing money on it.  Can you envision the SEC Championship game or the B1G Championship game + tv games being dropped as what happened to B12?  B12 threw ESPN a bone?  Really?

Oklahoma State had the McNeese game and now KSU on ESPN+, which is 1/3 of OSU's home games.  My guess is you are going to see more of that for all B12 schools and see it sooner rather than later.  1/3 is not too different than AAC's 1/2.

I cited AAC and B12, the two conferences with the two newest contracts with ESPN, not for monies involved but the direction of broadcasting--from linear to digital via ESPN+.  I did not make any other comparisons including monies involved.

The Big 12 is only marginally interested in ESPN+?  Really?   All Big 12 public announcements out of the commissioner's office are totally opposite of your statement.  To repeat myself, the B12 does not have the TV cache that SEC and B1G have.   That, and throw in the fact of the Longhorn Network, the B12 has never even come close to developing a conference wide TV network that it desparately wanted as SEC, B1G, ACC, and PAC.  Big 12 simply has no bones to throw to anyone.  The B12 commissioner and the B12 Athletic Directors have been touting the ESPN+ as a "conference network" that is better than the other P4 conference networks because it allows much, much, much more programming for each and every school.

I am going to repeat something I posted previously.  Oklahoma State built a $9M studio and broadcast facilities located in T. Boone Pickens Football Stadium.  OSU was producing programs but could not get them broadcasted.  Why?  FOX Sports Southwest and FOX Sports Oklahoma carried programming from Dallas Cowboys, Texas Rangers, and the Oklahoma Sooner Sports Network.  There was very little space left for Oklahoma State and their programming.  Not true anymore with ESPN+.  Oklahoma State is absolutely delighted with ESPN+.  Oklahoma State will now have more programming available to its fans than the Longhorn Network and the OU Sports Network. 

Oklahoma State is also thrilled because now its strong wrestling program, almost totally shut out of tv broadcasts, will have each and ever wrestling match on ESPN+.

And my hope was realized. Based on an article in the Oklahoma media, all sports telecasts will be archived for later viewing.

The various media in Oklahoma have had a ton of articles regarding the shifting of OSU/KSU to ESPN+ and many articles about ESPN+.  There was one interesting story.  ESPN introduced ESPN2 but it wasn't being picked up by the various cable and satellite outlets.  So what did ESPN do?  ESPN shifted some of their top games from ESPN to ESPN2!   This shifting of the OSU/KSU game to ESPN+ is historic....it is the first true college game of national interest  from linear to digital.  As the article stated, today there is no differentiation between ESPN and ESPN2.  So ESPN is using the same strategy for ESPN+.

There is even a bigger indicator of the shift from linear to ESPN+.  Many of the better B12 basketball games have shifted to ESPN+ this season.  For example, the Georgetown at Oklahoma State basketball game will be on ESPN+.  The shift to ESPN+ is happening quicker than any of us every thought.

For the Non-P5 schools and TCU and Oklahoma State, ESPN+ is a game changer and gives all schools a more equal footing to school like Texas and Oklahoma.

SMU will benefit greatly from ESPN+, and I suspect that is the source of your angst.  ESPN+ helps close the recruiting gap between P5 and G5 schools.  ESPN+ will reduce the recruiting advantage the PAC with its conference network has over MWC currently when MWC renegotiates its tv contract.

The AAC has greatly benefited from ESPN+ and so will MWC.

It will be interesting to watch this ESPN+ play out.  I just wonder, for example, if more spaces on linear TV will become available to the Non-P5 schools as P5 games are shifted to ESPN+ similar to SEC, B1g, PAC, and ACC games shifted to their conference networks?  AAC increased its linear tv broadcast about 50% in its just completed contract and I have to think TV space made available by the conference networks played into this.  I am guessing ESPN+ will make more linear tv spots available for G5 schools.

The AAC has greatly benefited from ESPN+ and without a doubt so will MWC.  All the benefits realized by AAC and B12 from ESPN+ will also be realized by MWC.

 

The ESPN+ broadcasts look "low rent".  Poor quality.

I expect that they'll be OK for the Big 12.  But probably not the AAC.  Aresco said the plan is to keep costs down by renting equipment and using student volunteers to do the broadcasts.

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It is going to be ALL a la carte before we know it. Every studio/media outlet is going to have there own streaming service and the ONLY way for you to see their property it to sign up for the service. Pretty soon cable will no longer exist.

Conferences can just create their own streaming service and charge what they like. The Big-10 might charge $750 a year for all access (every single home football/basketball game and many games for the "minor" sports) and $25 for an individual game. The MW might charge $300 for a year an $15 for a single game. I am guessing this will happen at some point in my life time. Honestly it would be fairer and cheaper (at least for me because the only reason I have cable is for sports).  

 

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On 9/21/2019 at 12:02 PM, thedude15 said:

It is going to be ALL a la carte before we know it. Every studio/media outlet is going to have there own streaming service and the ONLY way for you to see their property it to sign up for the service. Pretty soon cable will no longer exist.

Conferences can just create their own streaming service and charge what they like. The Big-10 might charge $750 a year for all access (every single home football/basketball game and many games for the "minor" sports) and $25 for an individual game. The MW might charge $300 for a year an $15 for a single game. I am guessing this will happen at some point in my life time. Honestly it would be fairer and cheaper (at least for me because the only reason I have cable is for sports).  

 

Wasn't that basically the PAC strategy in developing its own conference TV network?  It appears that hasn't worked out so well.

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On 9/21/2019 at 11:28 AM, #1Stunner said:

The ESPN+ broadcasts look "low rent".  Poor quality.

I expect that they'll be OK for the Big 12.  But probably not the AAC.  Aresco said the plan is to keep costs down by renting equipment and using student volunteers to do the broadcasts.

Aresco indicated that outside assistance will be hired for AAC ESPN+ football games and all conference championship games excluding football and basketball which will be handled by ESPN/ABC.  My guess here is that Aresco is seeking broadcast quality as a priority over reducing expense for ESPN+ football games and olympic conference championship games.

It will be up to individual schools to decide their arrangement for broadcast facilities and equipment.  ESPN will provide some money (unknown how much as it was not publicly released) and technical advisory assistance.  UCF and Memphis, both with large entertainment industries, are pretty much already set up.

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On 9/21/2019 at 11:28 AM, #1Stunner said:

The ESPN+ broadcasts look "low rent".  Poor quality.

I expect that they'll be OK for the Big 12.  But probably not the AAC.  Aresco said the plan is to keep costs down by renting equipment and using student volunteers to do the broadcasts.

Because all of the Big 12 have already been doing their independent T3 deals - not just football and basketball, but the Olympic sports as well - with the Fox regionals (mostly), the Big 12 goes into the new ESPN+ deal with broadcast quality equipment and infrastructure already in place. And its the Olympic sports that I have been saying all along is going to bite the AAC in the ass.   Not sure where Aresco gets the idea that renting equipment saves money - its like renting vs buying a car.  After 5 years you own the car and it still works.  Rent and you have nothing but more rental bills.  I know in the case of TCU they used some student labor on their volleyball and soccer broadcasts, but I do know know if that will continue once the switchover occurs next year. 

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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On 9/21/2019 at 11:28 AM, #1Stunner said:

The ESPN+ broadcasts look "low rent".  Poor quality.

I expect that they'll be OK for the Big 12.  But probably not the AAC.  Aresco said the plan is to keep costs down by renting equipment and using student volunteers to do the broadcasts.

Do you have a link?  I have not seen anything about Aresco regarding renting, leasing, or buying broadcast equipment.  The Aresco statements I have read have been broad and general without specifics, that AAC conference officials and ESPN are working with individual schools but ultimately it is up to each school to figure out how it wants to go forward. 

Student volunteers are a must to make it work financially.  That we can all agree.

It would be nice if Aresco would be more specific about costs and the process of each school building its broadcast facilities....but he hasn't.  He has been pretty mum.

If I were an AAC AD, I would visit Memphis U and UCF as both schools have broadcast facilities in place within their communications department and visit other schools like the MAC to see what they have done and what all this stuff costs.

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On 9/21/2019 at 12:02 PM, thedude15 said:

It is going to be ALL a la carte before we know it. Every studio/media outlet is going to have there own streaming service and the ONLY way for you to see their property it to sign up for the service. Pretty soon cable will no longer exist.

Conferences can just create their own streaming service and charge what they like. The Big-10 might charge $750 a year for all access (every single home football/basketball game and many games for the "minor" sports) and $25 for an individual game. The MW might charge $300 for a year an $15 for a single game. I am guessing this will happen at some point in my life time. Honestly it would be fairer and cheaper (at least for me because the only reason I have cable is for sports).  

 

Greed exists throughout mankind.   It has already happened in your lifetime.  The University of Oklahoma charged its fans $50 to watch the South Dakota football game a couple weeks ago on PPV.

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1 hour ago, RSF said:

Because all of the Big 12 have already been doing their independent T3 deals - not just football and basketball, but the Olympic sports as well - with the Fox regionals (mostly), the Big 12 goes into the new ESPN+ deal with broadcast quality equipment and infrastructure already in place. And its the Olympic sports that I have been saying all along is going to bite the AAC in the ass.   Not sure where Aresco gets the idea that renting equipment saves money - its like renting vs buying a car.  After 5 years you own the car and it still works.  Rent and you have nothing but more rental bills.  I know in the case of TCU they used some student labor on their volleyball and soccer broadcasts, but I do know know if that will continue once the switchover occurs next year. 

If a school doubled its recruiting budget, its fans would cheer in glee.  Having the possibilities of ESPN+ for Non-P5 schools generates support from fans and is a great recruiting tool.  Recall it was the recruiting threat of the Longhorn Network that drove TAMU so beserk that the Aggies withdrew from the B12.

Tulsa ranks #2 in AAC because of its strong olympic sports program.  TU recruits nationally and internationally for its olympic sports.  ESPN+ will be a great recruiting boost for its olympic sports as well as football and basketball.

ESPN+ will be put in place for football and men's basketball.  Does each school put in the equipment and staffing for these two sports.....and then let everything sit idle for the rest of the year?  I don't think so.

Perhaps New Mexico State's AggieVision is the better comparable than Longhorn Network.

Then too, like the Longhorn network, academics and general university happenings will probably be part of ESPN+. 

Bite in the ass?  A bite in the rear end is not having a broadcast outlet like ESPN+ to compete with P5 conference networks.

With its $7M TV contract, each school should have both more money for implementing ESPN+ and still have a whole lot of money leftover for coaches salaries, recruiting costs, and athletic facilities. 

My guess is MWC is going to receive an enhanced TV contract with monies and support that will more than cover the cost of implementing ESPN+ for each MWC school.

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24 minutes ago, Tulsa Guy said:

Greed exists throughout mankind.   It has already happened in your lifetime.  The University of Oklahoma charged its fans $50 to watch the South Dakota football game a couple weeks ago on PPV.

That's nothing new.  Before all of the conference networks and all the options for showing games, a lot of fan bases paid for PPV games at $50 a pop. 

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Just now, Wyobraska said:

That's nothing new.  Before all of the conference networks and all the options for showing games, a lot of fan bases paid for PPV games at $50 a pop. 

My point is that blaming ESPN+ for increasing costs to watch college sports in not valid.  The various P5 schools realize there is money to be made and, if ESPN+ wasn't there, the individual P5 schools would jump in and charge high fees for viewing.  Just like the PAC tried to do with its conference network.  Greed abounds.

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