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Mass shooting reported in Odessa, TX: At least 30 injured, two suspects in vehicles firing randomly

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3 minutes ago, Orange said:

 

 

Which one of you is the pledge of this hipster libertarian fraternity?  I'mma guess @BSUTOP25 because he has the shittiest handle and can't read a box score.

I'm actually the newest to posting on the OT section.  Only been doing it regularly for 6 years.

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1 hour ago, happycamper said:

Nobody is saying that gun deaths aren't a problem. People are arguing that:

  • whether Rifles even should be included as part of the problem
  • draconian legislation would likely cause more gun deaths than it would solve due to resistance
  • whether we're actually experiencing more mass shootings or not

I already posted about pistols being essentially the only gun violence culprit worth talking about...

Good synopsis, one thing I would add is that we are also trying to demonstrate we are living in a really good time and that general public perception is off.  We are not in a crises, Americans are pretty safe today compared to the past.  

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4 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Good synopsis, one thing I would add is that we are also trying to demonstrate we are living in a really good time and that general public perception is off.  We are not in a crises, Americans are pretty safe today compared to the past.  

Not really.  Gun deaths are at a 20-year high.

firearm-deaths-all-ages-1999-2016b.jpg

Perhaps you're thinking of automobile deaths, something we've reached a consensus in this country about resolving:

242530A400000578-0-image-a-63_1418931014

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Just now, Orange said:

It really doesn't shock me that you don't know how to read a graph.

I’m surprised you could go a full reply without using a slur, dick.

Suicides are up, homicides are up...how is banning guns going to stop those? The majority of homicides are from handguns, same with suicides...which, according to Heller, are completely Constitutional.

Yet another swing and miss, Rush.

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1 minute ago, Orange said:

Not really.  Gun deaths are at a 20-year high.

firearm-deaths-all-ages-1999-2016b.jpg

So you're worried that someone will walk in and convince you to commit suicide? Violence is way down. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/

Burglary, theft, larceny, and property crime are nosediving.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

The murder rate per capita is far lower than it was even 15 years ago. We aren't back down to the recent minimum of 2014, but according to the FBI data, the murder rate per capita in 2017 had ceased its slight bounceback and had decreased slightly. https://www.infoplease.com/us/crime/homicide-rate-1950-2014

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/topic-pages/murder

The murder rate overall is decreasing and the murder rate in cities over 250,000 people is decreasing as well (with a much higher base rate). 

https://www.thetrace.org/2018/04/highest-murder-rates-us-cities-list/

This is your issue, you never have one thing to argue about. You move the goalposts, or change the subject entirely, to suit what I can determine is just "a left wing narrative" without any philosophical underpinning. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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18 minutes ago, Orange said:

Not really.  Gun deaths are at a 20-year high.

firearm-deaths-all-ages-1999-2016b.jpg

Perhaps you're thinking of automobile deaths, something we've reached a consensus in this country about resolving:

242530A400000578-0-image-a-63_1418931014

Your bottom chart refutes your claim that gun deaths are at a 20 year high.  Even in your top chart the increase in gun deaths is clearly driven by suicide rather than homicide.

v0icAvfW.jpg

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1 hour ago, happycamper said:

Nobody is saying that gun deaths aren't a problem. People are arguing that:

  • whether Rifles even should be included as part of the problem
  • draconian legislation would likely cause more gun deaths than it would solve due to resistance
  • whether we're actually experiencing more mass shootings or not

I already posted about pistols being essentially the only gun violence culprit worth talking about...

There's a flaw in the rifle stats, actually it's more of that we're not asking the right question or comparing apples to apples.

We're talking about these mass shooting terrorism events, right? We all agree the gang deaths, accidental deaths, crimes of passion, etc. are in a different category. Saying something like 80% of guns used in crimes are not legal really isn't the most helpful stat.  Especially when many of these mass shooter guys seem to get their weapons legally and it doesn't seem like many of these mass shooter terrorists are holding up liquor stores, etc.  The gun crimes need to be parsed out.  It is wholly unhelpful to meaning conversation about mass shootings to lump all gun crimes together. The motivations are so completely different.

So, what's the percentage of these mass shooting terrorist events where a semi-auto rifle like an AR is utilized?

Way more than 3% it seems. Why the AR-15?  

Many of you guys and gals that are knowledgeable about guns tell us a minimally trained shooter with other weapons could do more damage than these AR-15, semi-auto rifle guys, but here we are again with the AR.

Is it possible the psychology of the aesthetics and marketing of these semi-auto rifles plays a part? 

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16 minutes ago, MetropolitanCowboy said:

If you ban guns, suicides aren’t going to stop, people will just use the noose, the muffler, Hari Kari, or something similar, unfortunately.

As evidenced by Japan and South Korea, the two first world countries that are 1 and 2 in suicide rates.  They hang or jump.  They also have near 0 gun deaths but suicide per capita eclipses ours 

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13 minutes ago, toonkee said:

There's a flaw in the rifle stats, actually it's more of that we're not asking the right question or comparing apples to apples.

We're talking about these mass shooting terrorism events, right? We all agree the gang deaths, accidental deaths, crimes of passion, etc. are in a different category. Saying something like 80% of guns used in crimes are not legal really isn't the most helpful stat.  Especially when many of these mass shooter guys seem to get their weapons legally and it doesn't seem like many of these mass shooter terrorists are holding up liquor stores, etc.  The gun crimes need to be parsed out.  It is wholly unhelpful to meaning conversation about mass shootings to lump all gun crimes together. The motivations are so completely different.

So, what's the percentage of these mass shooting terrorist events where a semi-auto rifle like an AR is utilized?

Way more than 3% it seems. Why the AR-15?  

Many of you guys and gals that are knowledgeable about guns tell us a minimally trained shooter with other weapons could do more damage than these AR-15, semi-auto rifle guys, but here we are again with the AR.

Is it possible the psychology of the aesthetics and marketing of these semi-auto rifles plays a part? 

BsflOOs.jpg

v0icAvfW.jpg

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5 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

BsflOOs.jpg

Thank you, that's my point.  Why do they almost always uses the "cool" one to shoot up the wal-mart, or the garlic festival, or the music festival, or the pedestrian mall?

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5 minutes ago, toonkee said:

Thank you, that's my point.  Why do they almost always uses the "cool" one to shoot up the wal-mart, or the garlic festival, or the music festival, or the pedestrian mall?

Only 340 people were killed on average each year from 2007-2017 using rifles (ALL rifles, not just the scary looking ones).  There are bigger fish to fry and more lives to be saved outside of the irrational fear of scary guns.

https://fee.org/articles/are-ar-15-rifles-a-public-safety-threat-heres-what-the-data-say/

v0icAvfW.jpg

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12 minutes ago, toonkee said:

There's a flaw in the rifle stats, actually it's more of that we're not asking the right question or comparing apples to apples.

We're talking about these mass shooting terrorism events, right? We all agree the gang deaths, accidental deaths, crimes of passion, etc. are in a different category. Saying something like 80% of guns used in crimes are not legal really isn't the most helpful stat.  Especially when many of these mass shooter guys seem to get their weapons legally and it doesn't seem like many of these mass shooter terrorists are holding up liquor stores, etc.  The gun crimes need to be parsed out.  It is wholly unhelpful to meaning conversation about mass shootings to lump all gun crimes together. The motivations are so completely different.

So, what's the percentage of these mass shooting terrorist events where a semi-auto rifle like an AR is utilized?

Way more than 3% it seems. Why the AR-15?  

Many of you guys and gals that are knowledgeable about guns tell us a minimally trained shooter with other weapons could do more damage than these AR-15, semi-auto rifle guys, but here we are again with the AR.

Is it possible the psychology of the aesthetics and marketing of these semi-auto rifles plays a part? 

That's the thing, we are not.  Every time somebody like me tries to focus the discussion on that others bring up gun violence as a whole, because the numbers are bigger.  Because when you weigh costs and effects of the 100-300 people a year killed by rifle to the consequences of things like mandatory buy backs, an Idea that is now mainstream, you look stupid.  If weapons like the AR 15 are banned people will use semi automatic shotguns are likely do waaaay worse damage.  The AR is not a hyper effective killing tool compared to other weapons on the market, the only difference is those weapons have wood stocks so they look less scary.

Rifle deaths are incredibly rare, so it depends on what you want to give up.  These assholes who want to shoot up a place like a school would do far more damage with weapons other than AR.  The big black scary gun with glorified .22 round.

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50 minutes ago, happycamper said:

So you're worried that someone will walk in and convince you to commit suicide? Violence is way down. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/

Burglary, theft, larceny, and property crime are nosediving.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

The murder rate per capita is far lower than it was even 15 years ago. We aren't back down to the recent minimum of 2014, but according to the FBI data, the murder rate per capita in 2017 had ceased its slight bounceback and had decreased slightly. https://www.infoplease.com/us/crime/homicide-rate-1950-2014

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/topic-pages/murder

The murder rate overall is decreasing and the murder rate in cities over 250,000 people is decreasing as well (with a much higher base rate). 

https://www.thetrace.org/2018/04/highest-murder-rates-us-cities-list/

This is your issue, you never have one thing to argue about. You move the goalposts, or change the subject entirely, to suit what I can determine is just "a left wing narrative" without any philosophical underpinning. 

Having lost multiple friends and family members to suicide, I am astonished that you would consider suicide a "non-violent" death.

I move the goalposts???  Dude, you have a +++++ing burglary/property crime graph in a gun debate.

 

You're so +++++ing stupid.

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10 minutes ago, toonkee said:

Thank you, that's my point.  Why do they almost always uses the "cool" one to shoot up the wal-mart, or the garlic festival, or the music festival, or the pedestrian mall?

Because of the fear factor.  Democrats and the media have "sexed" up the big black gun.  If these shooters started using other more lethal weapons because the AR 15 is banned, there would be no decrease in the death toll of mass shootings.  You may see a few right wing crazies get into shoot outs with local police leaving corpses everywhere.  To me the optic of the government vs the people being the new mass killing trend is terrifying.  Maybe you agree.

The huge focus on rifles and semi automatics when 1/3 of owned guns are semi automatic is ridiculous.

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1 hour ago, Orange said:

 

 

Which one of you is the pledge of this hipster libertarian fraternity?  I'mma guess @BSUTOP25 because he has the shittiest handle and can't read a box score.

Lol — Go ahead and keep making little quips about the <10 second screen shot and commentary I made while trolling and triggering your delicate ass, that’s all ya got. I’m looking forward to triggering another meltdown from you soon.

In the meanwhile, we’ll continue to laugh at your desperate attempt to sell the weak gun homicide epidemic narrative by padding statistics with suicides and accidental deaths. You’re weak son, essentially the radical authoritarian left’s version of @Nevada Convert

bsu_retro_bsu_logo_helmet.b_1.jpg

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5 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

That's the thing, we are not.  Every time somebody like me tries to focus the discussion on that others bring up gun violence as a whole, because the numbers are bigger.  Because when you weigh costs and effects of the 100-300 people a year killed by rifle to the consequences of things like mandatory buy backs, an Idea that is now mainstream, you look stupid.  2. If weapons like the AR 15 are banned people will use semi automatic shotguns are likely do waaaay worse damage.  The AR is not a hyper effective killing tool compared to other weapons on the market, the only difference is those weapons have wood stocks so they look less scary.

1. Rifle deaths are incredibly rare, so it depends on what you want to give up.  These assholes who want to shoot up a place like a school would do far more damage with weapons other than AR.  The big black scary gun with glorified .22 round.

1. Rifle deaths are not extremely rare when we're talking about terrorist mass shooting event though.  It is meaningless to lump those deaths in with "all gun deaths". If other people are doing that to skew the argument than that's what they're doing.  I'm not. 

2. You have no idea if that's true or not. That might depends on what the remaining guns look like.  Like you said, the aesthetics seem to play some part.  These dudes aren't operating on some methodical level in most cases. Lot of them are playing dress-up.

I didn't say nuthin about no buybacks or any "solution".  I put some food for thought out there.

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