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Finally a leftist big govt. pro tax plan I can agree with

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Just now, Orange said:

And you were incorrect with that correction.  Pork and chicken diets are not more sustainable than a vegetarian diet.

You just aren't accepting the simple idea that calories are what determine how much food something has. That seems like a ridiculous hill to die on, but hey, he disagreed with you once so everything he posts must be WROOOONNNNGGG. I mean you've gone to law school and he's an anthropologist and wilderness survival guide, what possible knowledge could he have on food efficiency?

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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13 minutes ago, happycamper said:

No, you said curttail hydrocarbons. How do you expect that travel isn't affected by that?

I said carbon footprint in relation to food.  I'm not talking about travel.  You're just wrong about what transpired in the convo.

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Yes, it did. 2 million years ago was the Miocene. The 40% oxygen, world jungle, forest fire climate was a reference to the Cretaceous. I kinda figured that you'd be at least passingly familiar with earth climatological history given all the studies you're pulling up, but you just are not. 

Yes. Saying we can do it is saying that it's easy. It is not something that is really possible.

You're right, I have not memorized the oxygen content and precise flora and fauna species alive at that time.  If you're mentioning the Cretaceous, I don't know why that's better, considering humans didn't live then, and couldn't.  My original point grows stronger by the minute.

So is it not "really possible" or "not possible"?

And nowhere else in the +++++ing world does someone saying "it's possible" = "it's easy."  Just in this forum, on this thread, with your reply.  LITERALLY NO ONE ELSE ON THE WORLD EQUATES THOSE TWO PHRASES.

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Yes, it does. There are transoceanic currents that would provide an enormous amount of energy if we could get turbines to work based off of them. I'm making it for two reasons; it would be a ludicrously large engineering challenge, and it would defeat its own purpose (if you dam those oceanic currents and prevent cold pacific water from mixing with warm atlantic water, you're going to melt both of the ice caps). 

Uh, I'm not proposing that engineering solution.  You are.  Again, I never said we should do that, and I have no clue where it comes from.  Yes, I support a solution that doesn't include a 500-trillion-dollar turbine dam in the ocean.  :rolleyes:

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Dude, I have zero bitterness with you. You just don't posit ideas that are thought out, you throw out exaggerations that sink any point you're trying to make, and you take it personally when people don't immediately believe every word you say. I mean throughout this argument I've dropped little hints as to how you could support your points more effectively. 

lol and you talk about condescension in your next section...

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As to the bolded part... my man, you are not an ally. You are exhibiting more toxic masculinity than most on this forum and you have a white savior complex. If you were a little more informed on racial politics, you'd realize that the language and criticisms I'm using are not coming from the right. You, as a white man, questioned sean's latino-ness because he had the audacity to not fall in line politically. You, as a cishet, talk about other posters fellating each other. You, as a white man, condescendingly tell women that they're just too stupid to know what their own interests are. You're a liberal, yes. You are absolutely not woke and you don't seem to care to be. 

I didn't question his latino-ness, I called him a racist for saying Omar should go back to where she came from.  And I stand by that.

What woman did I tell was too stupid?  The only woman I've had a negative interaction with here is @Broncomare, and she's incredibly stupid.  I mean, WEAPONS-GRADE stupid.  Sure, I shit on her.  She spouts off about how I have a little dick (so she imagines -- sorta weird she immediately went to my penis size the first time I spoke with her), and her views are patently racist and pro kids-in-cages.  Am I supposed to treat her nicely and pat her head because she's a woman?  THAT sounds a lot more like misogyny than anything I've displayed.  

Making jokey remarks about people fellating each other doesn't have any bearing on people's support for causes that further the rights of oppressed peoples.  It's just some weak shit you try to use to discredit me.  You're trying to muddy the waters with that weak shit.  

 

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9 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

That is not what your link said and study said, kid.  You lumped in beef and dairy.  

And you compared only lettuce to chicken, fish and pork.  There are very few studies that actually separate pork and chicken from beef.  You seem to think vegetarians just munch on lettuce all day, and that's not remotely true.

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10 minutes ago, happycamper said:

You just aren't accepting the simple idea that calories are what determine how much food something has. That seems like a ridiculous hill to die on, but hey, he disagreed with you once so everything he posts must be WROOOONNNNGGG. I mean you've gone to law school and he's an anthropologist and wilderness survival guide, what possible knowledge could he have on food efficiency?

I don't give a shit what he does, the peer-reviewed study I linked to contradicts him.

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2 minutes ago, Orange said:

I said carbon footprint in relation to food.  I'm not talking about travel.  You're just wrong about what transpired in the convo.

You're right, I have not memorized the oxygen content and precise flora and fauna species alive at that time.  If you're mentioning the Cretaceous, I don't know why that's better, considering humans didn't live then, and couldn't.  My original point grows stronger by the minute.

So is it not "really possible" or "not possible"?

And nowhere else in the +++++ing world does someone saying "it's possible" = "it's easy."  Just in this forum, on this thread, with your reply.  LITERALLY NO ONE ELSE ON THE WORLD EQUATES THOSE TWO PHRASES.

Uh, I'm not proposing that engineering solution.  You are.  Again, I never said we should do that, and I have no clue where it comes from.  Yes, I support a solution that doesn't include a 500-trillion-dollar turbine dam in the ocean.  :rolleyes:

lol and you talk about condescension in your next section...

I didn't question his latino-ness, I called him a racist for saying Omar should go back to where she came from.  And I stand by that.

What woman did I tell was too stupid?  The only woman I've had a negative interaction with here is @Broncomare, and she's incredibly stupid.  I mean, WEAPONS-GRADE stupid.  Sure, I shit on her.  She spouts off about how I have a little dick (so she imagines -- sorta weird she immediately went to my penis size the first time I spoke with her), and her views are patently racist and pro kids-in-cages.  Am I supposed to treat her nicely and pat her head because she's a woman?  THAT sounds a lot more like misogyny than anything I've displayed.  

Making jokey remarks about people fellating each other doesn't have any bearing on people's support for causes that further the rights of oppressed peoples.  It's just some weak shit you try to use to discredit me.  You're trying to muddy the waters 

 

I'm stupid because I don't believe the same way you do?  That's all you do, is insult people that do not agree with you, rather than have a meaningful conversation.  I insulted you because right out of the gate you insulted me.  Apparently, I hit a nerve...................

 

 

 

 

down in a hole.jpg

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Just now, Broncomare said:

I'm stupid because I don't believe the same way you do?  That's all you do, is insult people that do not agree with you, rather than have a meaningful conversation.  I insulted you because right out of the gate you insulted me.  Apparently, I hit a nerve...................

No, you're just stupid.  Sorry to have to be the one to tell you.  I dismiss you like most here dismiss @bluerules or @Nevada Convert or other idiots.  

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Just now, Orange said:

No, you're just stupid.  Sorry to have to be the one to tell you.  I dismiss you like most here dismiss @bluerules or @Nevada Convert or other idiots.  

Yep, I really hit a nerve..............

 

 

 

 

down in a hole.jpg

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4 minutes ago, Orange said:

I don't give a shit what he does, the peer-reviewed study I linked to contradicts him.

No, it does not.  Your study did not separate chicken and pork from beef, mine did.  All your study did was show a point we already agreed on, in page 1.  I also gave you another link that separated chicken and pork from beef.  Do you read anything?

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2 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

No, it does not.  Your study did not separate chicken and pork from beef, mine did.  All your study did was show a point we already agreed on, in page 1.  I also gave you another link that separated chicken and pork from beef.  Do you read anything?

The article I posted absolutely parsed out chicken and pork from beef in the graph, halfway down.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth

Lamb, beef, pig, poultry, all have orders of magnitude more greenhouse gasses emitted in the production of said product as compared to, say, tofu, legumes, etc. 

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30 minutes ago, Orange said:

The article I posted absolutely parsed out chicken and pork from beef in the graph, halfway down.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth

Lamb, beef, pig, poultry, all have orders of magnitude more greenhouse gasses emitted in the production of said product as compared to, say, tofu, legumes, etc. 

And more compared to lettuce, eggplants etc...

I don't know single vegetarian that consumes only those products lower than pork and chicken.  Do you?  The vegetarian diet also consists of dairy products.  The simple fact your carbon foot print will not be altered in any meaningful way if you remove pork and chicken from your diet .  Much less your FIRST claim in the thread that it would do 10X as much for environment than using public transportation instead of driving.

You lumped in chicken and pork right there with beef multiple times on page 1.  That is on you, not me.

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Also lol at the claim soy is an environmental bargain.  Your tofu and soy products sourced from farms in the developing world in fragile critical ecosystems is hardly better for the environment than bacon just because it has a lower carbon footprint.

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10 minutes ago, Orange said:

I said carbon footprint in relation to food.  I'm not talking about travel.  You're just wrong about what transpired in the convo.

No, you explicitly brought up hydrocarbons.

10 minutes ago, Orange said:

You're right, I have not memorized the oxygen content and precise flora and fauna species alive at that time.  If you're mentioning the Cretaceous, I don't know why that's better, considering humans didn't live then, and couldn't.  My original point grows stronger by the minute.

Humans "couldn't" live in the cretaceous?

10 minutes ago, Orange said:

So is it not "really possible" or "not possible"?

I mean, if you wanted to create enough reservoirs to have enough storage to power the entire grid demand on fully electric heating, then it's possible. 

At that point just go back to coal; the climate consequences will be less severe.

10 minutes ago, Orange said:

And nowhere else in the +++++ing world does someone saying "it's possible" = "it's easy."  Just in this forum, on this thread, with your reply.  LITERALLY NO ONE ELSE ON THE WORLD EQUATES THOSE TWO PHRASES.

I mean, a lot of people do. There are elementary problems, which if you work are solvable, and there are problems that are not elementary.

10 minutes ago, Orange said:

Uh, I'm not proposing that engineering solution.  You are.  Again, I never said we should do that, and I have no clue where it comes from.  Yes, I support a solution that doesn't include a 500-trillion-dollar turbine dam in the ocean.  :rolleyes:

It's called an analogy. I'm pointing out how ludicrous "just have storage!" is.

I'm aware that you aren't proposing an engineering solution. You aren't proposing any solutions. You spout something that sounds nice and then you wear ignorance as an armor when your ideas are criticized. 

10 minutes ago, Orange said:

lol and you talk about condescension in your next section...

I didn't question his latino-ness, I called him a racist for saying Omar should go back to where she came from.  And I stand by that.

What woman did I tell was too stupid?  The only woman I've had a negative interaction with here is @Broncomare, and she's incredibly stupid.  I mean, WEAPONS-GRADE stupid.  Sure, I shit on her.  She spouts off about how I have a little dick (so she imagines -- sorta weird she immediately went to my penis size the first time I spoke with her), and her views are patently racist and pro kids-in-cages.  Am I supposed to treat her nicely and pat her head because she's a woman?  THAT sounds a lot more like misogyny than anything I've displayed.  

Making jokey remarks about people fellating each other doesn't have any bearing on people's support for causes that further the rights of oppressed peoples.  It's just some weak shit you try to use to discredit me.  You're trying to muddy the waters with that weak shit.  

 

Right, it's totally okay for you to be a little bit racist and a little bit homophobic and a little bit misogynist because, hey, you're on the right side of history and the other guys are worse anyway right? All those poc and LBGT and women are happy to have an ally like you.

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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1 hour ago, Lester_in_reno said:

THIS! ^

 

but I am sure the biggest companies and smartest people they have are working on the next battery breakthrough.

They are, but batteries are a tough nut to crack. Especially rechargable ones. I'll explain in terms even @Orange might be able to understand. A lithium ion battery will lose up to 45% of it's storage capacity after 20 charge/recharge cycles. Nickel Cadmium loses up to 60%. Lead acid batteries are the most efficient with a 27% loss, but with them the trade off is weight and bulk. All three have issues with thermal runaway. The iron ion battery that I mentioned previously has some promise. During small scale tests it's only losing around 15%, but it's propensity for screaming down the thermal runaway road is greater than the other three. There have been some brilliant engineers who've had their asses kicked by the battery problem and it's going to be some time before it gets figured out.

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2 hours ago, Orange said:

Isn't it weird how there was no parade of "WE OWNED YOU!!!" and "stop it, he's already dead!!!" memes along with "damn, I feel sorry for @TheSanDiegan" posts following this post that basically summarizes my thesis in this thread?

 

These guys (specifically @thelawlorfaithful, @halfmanhalfbronco and @happycamper don't react to ideas.  They react to a poster's reputation.  That's the definition of small-mindedness.

Nobody, well at least none of the three you mentioned give a damn about a players reputation. We’ll argue with anyone. It’s not your reputation, but the things you say and your ideas that are getting so totally pieced up in this thread. I’m sorry you’re being outclassed and schooled on literally almost every point you’ve tried to make. I too wish we could wave a magic wand and the world would all love vegetables and there would be a magic icebox that could refrigerate solar and wind energy until we need to use it, but alas... 

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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1 hour ago, happycamper said:

No, you explicitly brought up hydrocarbons.

Humans "couldn't" live in the cretaceous?

I mean, if you wanted to create enough reservoirs to have enough storage to power the entire grid demand on fully electric heating, then it's possible. 

At that point just go back to coal; the climate consequences will be less severe.

I mean, a lot of people do. There are elementary problems, which if you work are solvable, and there are problems that are not elementary.

It's called an analogy. I'm pointing out how ludicrous "just have storage!" is.

I'm aware that you aren't proposing an engineering solution. You aren't proposing any solutions. You spout something that sounds nice and then you wear ignorance as an armor when your ideas are criticized. 

Right, it's totally okay for you to be a little bit racist and a little bit homophobic and a little bit misogynist because, hey, you're on the right side of history and the other guys are worse anyway right? All those poc and LBGT and women are happy to have an ally like you.

I didn't even utter the word "hydrocarbons" on this thread.

No, humans civilization would be brought to its knees if earth were suddenly thrust into the cretaceous-like conditions.  This should be obvious to all above a  6th grade science level.

Again, I didn't claim to have the answers for storing green energy, I said it's possible.  People ARE working on solving this problem, even if you dismiss it as unsolvable, in all your grandeur.  Sorry I don't have a nobel-worthy answer for you on the MWC Board, idiot.

"A lot of people do" say that "possible" = "easy"?  What's "a lot of people", Donald Trump?  Do define terms.

You aren't criticizing my ideas, you're basically calling me stupid for not having an engineering background.

We're all a little bit racist/homophobic/misogynist, but our policy positions absolutely are more important, yes.

 

Feel free to have the last word.  You're boring me with this endless "I WORK IN ENGINEERING!!!" show-off bullshit.

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55 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

Nobody, well at least none of the three you mentioned give a damn about a players reputation. We’ll argue with anyone. It’s not your reputation, but the things you say and your ideas that are getting so totally pieced up in this thread. I’m sorry you’re being outclassed and schooled on literally almost every point you’ve tried to make. I too wish we could wave a magic wand and the world would all love vegetables and there would be a magic icebox that could refrigerate solar and wind energy until we need to use it, but alas... 

I don't think you've ever put forth a meaningful challenge to any of my ideas.  You're basically a flamethrower.  

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2 minutes ago, Orange said:

I don't think you've ever put forth a meaningful challenge to any of my ideas.  You're basically a flamethrower.  

You haven’t put forth a meaningful idea that requires a requisite response. That’s not my fault. Or when you have, as in this thread, I generally let people more informed than me say their piece. I’ve been pieced up by these two as well. I know my limits. Maybe you should learn yours, tuck your tail, tip your cap, learn how to take a loss, with the promise that next time you won’t be such an easy target. You’ll come more prepared, less ignorant.

Or just keep doing like you do. Either way suits me.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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