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Stand Your Ground and emotional policymaking

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https://www.nber.org/papers/w18187

Our results indicate that Stand Your Ground laws are associated with a significant increase in the number of homicides among whites, especially white males. According to our estimates, between 28 and 33 additional white males are killed each month as a result of these laws. We find no consistent evidence to suggest that these laws increase homicides among blacks. Auxiliary analysis using data from the Supplemental Homicide Reports indicates that our results are not driven by the killings of assailants. 

In another thread I mentioned that too often we legislate with emotion, and not facts.  "Stand Your Ground" is a good example of this.  In states where you have a duty to retreat when confronted with a threat, more people tend to survive attacks.  Conversely, in a state with "stand your ground" laws, homicides increase markedly (by about 7% or so) and homicide rates among the male population increase by more than 20%.

So why do people support SYG?  Simple: It's about honor, and appearances.  Nobody wants to look like a coward, so we give people the option to act as if we're a medieval society whose most important virtue is honor, and not preserving life.  In a society where a duty to retreat exists, people tend to survive such encounters.

SYG is a classic vestige of the white male love-affair with guns and John Wayne movies.  It's emotional policymaking.

Where else do we legislate emotionally?  I'd say abortion laws, particularly in red states.  We want to "preserve life" that doesn't yet exist, even if it creates untold misery, particularly for women, and the children they cannot afford to have.

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8 minutes ago, Orange said:

https://www.nber.org/papers/w18187

Our results indicate that Stand Your Ground laws are associated with a significant increase in the number of homicides among whites, especially white males. According to our estimates, between 28 and 33 additional white males are killed each month as a result of these laws. We find no consistent evidence to suggest that these laws increase homicides among blacks. Auxiliary analysis using data from the Supplemental Homicide Reports indicates that our results are not driven by the killings of assailants. 

In another thread I mentioned that too often we legislate with emotion, and not facts.  "Stand Your Ground" is a good example of this.  In states where you have a duty to retreat when confronted with a threat, more people tend to survive attacks.  Conversely, in a state with "stand your ground" laws, homicides increase markedly (by about 7% or so) and homicide rates among the male population increase by more than 20%.

So why do people support SYG?  Simple: It's about honor, and appearances.  Nobody wants to look like a coward, so we give people the option to act as if we're a medieval society whose most important virtue is honor, and not preserving life.  In a society where a duty to retreat exists, people tend to survive such encounters.

SYG is a classic vestige of the white male love-affair with guns and John Wayne movies.  It's emotional policymaking.

Where else do we legislate emotionally?  I'd say abortion laws, particularly in red states.  We want to "preserve life" that doesn't yet exist, even if it creates untold misery, particularly for women, and the children they cannot afford to have.

If somebody breaks into my house when I’m home, as far as I’m concerned they’re in my home to hurt me and/or my daughter.  So I will stand my ground to protect my child at all costs.  If you want to steal my shit?  Fine.  Do it when I’m not home.  I have insurance.  Doing it when I’m there raises the stakes.  

I’m sure your response is going to be most intruders aren’t armed. You’re probably right.  An unarmed intruder can still kidnap, rape and murder my child.  So they’re a danger to me and my offspring.  

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3 minutes ago, mugtang said:

If somebody breaks into my house when I’m home, as far as I’m concerned they’re in my home to hurt me and/or my daughter.  So I will stand my ground to protect my child at all costs.  If you want to steal my shit?  Fine.  Do it when I’m not home.  I have insurance.  Doing it when I’m there raises the stakes.  

I’m sure your response is going to be most intruders aren’t armed. You’re probably right.  An unarmed intruder can still kidnap, rape and murder my child.  So they’re a danger to me and my offspring.  

Isn't that the Castle Doctrine, not Stand-Your-Ground?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law

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6 minutes ago, mugtang said:

If somebody breaks into my house when I’m home, as far as I’m concerned they’re in my home to hurt me and/or my daughter.  So I will stand my ground to protect my child at all costs.  If you want to steal my shit?  Fine.  Do it when I’m not home.  I have insurance.  Doing it when I’m there raises the stakes.  

I’m sure your response is going to be most intruders aren’t armed. You’re probably right.  An unarmed intruder can still kidnap, rape and murder my child.  So they’re a danger to me and my offspring.  

We're not talking about the same things.  I support shooting a nighttime burglar, provided you've surprised him/her and you have the clear upper-hand (as well as a background of dozens of hours of training with your weapon).  

That said, fleeing to avoid danger is almost ALWAYS the method that has the greatest likelihood of resulting in a positive outcome.  If you have an opportunity even with a nighttime burglar to run and seek help, it's your best option for survival.  Better to be alive and a pussy, than to have you AND your kid both die.

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Just now, Orange said:

We're not talking about the same things.  I support shooting a nighttime burglar.  

That said, fleeing to avoid danger is almost ALWAYS the method that has the greatest likelihood of resulting in a positive outcome.

Yeah @CV147 corrected me above. 

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I personally think it's reasonable that one should try to retreat safely. If someone could not retreat safely then deadly force should be used.

Like if I was afraid to turn my back and was afraid to walk backwards (due to obstacles or a crowd of people), then I'd should have the right to defend myself.

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1 minute ago, CV147 said:

I personally think it's reasonable that one should try to retreat safely. If someone could not retreat safely then deadly force should be used.

Like if I was afraid to turn my back and was afraid to walk backwards (due to obstacles or a crowd of people), then I'd should have the right to defend myself.

I'm sure anyone can manufacture some sort of weird scenario where backing away is awkward or difficult, but even that doesn't change the stats.

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Just now, Orange said:

I'm sure anyone can manufacture some sort of weird scenario where backing away is awkward or difficult, but even that doesn't change the stats.

OK, but I was agreeing with you that someone should try to retreat safely first. If they can't, then they can't.

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If I remember correctly, Stand-Your-Ground says you don't even need to try to retreat.

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2 minutes ago, CV147 said:

If I remember correctly, Stand-Your-Ground says you don't even need to try to retreat.

Correct.  It's a macho-man law.

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