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Guest #1Stunner

The New Mexico Lobos are the biggest underachievers in the MWC.

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3 hours ago, alum93 said:

I think our basketball team would be a huge addition and help with conference ranking to MWC, but that is for another day.  For now, indy is where it will be for the foreseeable future.  It could always be worse.  I could be talking football on the Big Sky forum somewhere. Man, don't want to even go there.  Good luck against BYU this year, not that you guys need it.  

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ADVANCED ANALYSIS OF COLLEGE BASKETBALL



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Program ratings help.gif

All data since 1997
        kenpom NCAA tourney
  Team Conf Rtg Best Worst Median Top 10 Top 25 Top 50 CH F4 S16 R1
1 Duke ACC +47.02 1 2010 19 2012 4 20 23 23 3 5 17 23
2 Kentucky SEC +45.07 1 2015 78 2008 8 15 20 21 2 6 15 21
3 Kansas B12 +37.04 1 2008 25 2000 7 16 23 23 1 5 14 23
4 North Carolina ACC +34.45 1 2009 137 2002 9 14 18 20 3 8 13 20
5 Arizona P12 +32.65 2 2014 94 2019 19 6 17 20 1 2 12 20
6 Michigan St. B10 +31.64 1 2000 50 1997 10 12 17 23 1 8 14 22
7 Villanova BE +30.03 1 2018 91 1998 28 6 11 15 2 3 6 16
8 Louisville ACC +29.86 1 2014 133 2001 19 8 15 20 1 3 8 17
9 Florida SEC +29.56 1 2006 108 1997 17 9 15 21 2 4 9 17
10 Texas B12 +28.78 3 2006 117 1998 27 5 11 20 0 1 6 19
11 Ohio St. B10 +27.20 1 2011 155 1998 19 6 13 17 0 3 6 15
12 Gonzaga WCC +25.75 1 2017 150 1997 24 7 14 22 0 1 10 21
13 UCLA P12 +25.70 4 2008 144 2004 35 3 8 14 0 3 11 16
14 Maryland B10 +25.22 3 2002 134 2012 26 3 11 18 1 2 6 15
15 Syracuse ACC +25.19 3 2010 56 2002 30 4 10 19 1 3 10 17
16 Wisconsin B10 +25.11 2 2015 95 1998 16 8 16 21 0 3 10 21
17 Virginia ACC +23.95 1 2019 104 2009 51 5 7 11 1 1 3 10
18 Indiana B10 +22.97 3 2013 209 2009 34 3 9 15 0 1 4 14
19 Connecticut Amer +22.66 2 2009 179 2018 26 6 11 15 4 5 9 14
20 Oregon P12 +22.43 9 2002 159 2009 45 2 4 12 0 1 6 11
21 Purdue B10 +21.94 5 2018 155 2006 30 5 9 17 0 0 8 16
22 Memphis Amer +21.83 2 2008 161 2018 49 4 5 12 0 1 4 10
23 Illinois B10 +21.74 2 2005 125 2016 36 5 11 14 0 1 4 13
24 Michigan B10 +21.53 4 2013 146 2001 47 3 8 13 0 2 5 10
25 Xavier BE +21.48 12 1998 81 2005 31 0 11 16 0 0 7 17
26 Oklahoma B12 +21.03 5 2002 144 2011 35 4 8 15 0 2 6 17
27 Florida St. ACC +20.98 14 2019 134 2001 38 0 3 14 0 0 3 8
28 West Virginia B12 +20.71 5 2010 192 2002 33 3 10 14 0 1 8 12
29 Notre Dame ACC +20.66 9 2015 108 1999 36 1 6 15 0 0 3 12
30 Cincinnati Amer +20.58 2 2002 141 2007 27 4 11 19 0 0 2 18
31 Miami FL ACC +19.90 13 2013 110 2004 47 0 3 12 0 0 3 9
32 Stanford P12 +19.88 2 2001 112 2019 40 5 8 13 0 1 5 12
33 Marquette BE +19.81 11 2002 113 1999 36 0 6 13 0 1 4 13
34 Oklahoma St. B12 +19.57 4 2004 98 2016 38 3 7 13 0 1 3 14
35 Pittsburgh ACC +19.54 3 2009 227 2018 28 4 11 13 0 0 5 13
36 Georgetown BE +19.32 4 2007 124 2004 44 2 7 12 0 1 3 10
37 Tennessee SEC +19.19 10 2019 159 1997 36 2 6 12 0 0 6 13
38 N.C. State ACC +18.92 9 2004 110 2008 48 1 3 13 0 0 3 10
39 Iowa St. B12 +18.60 10 2000 159 1998 64 1 7 11 0 0 4 11
40 LSU SEC +18.40 11 2006 232 2011 70 0 4 7 0 1 3 7
  Team Conf Rtg Best Worst Median Top 10 Top 25 Top 50 CH F4 S16 R1
41 USC P12 +18.31 12 2002 220 2012 57 0 2 8 0 0 2 8
42 Iowa B10 +17.85 14 1997 174 2010 46 0 7 12 0 0 1 8
43 Washington P12 +17.81 14 2005 181 2001 66 0 4 8 0 0 4 9
44 Creighton BE +17.69 15 2013 116 2010 51 0 2 11 0 0 0 12
45 Missouri SEC +17.64 6 2009 192 2015 54 2 4 10 0 0 2 11
46 Alabama SEC +17.55 18 2005 100 2009 62 0 2 6 0 0 1 7
47 Butler BE +17.53 12 2010 145 2005 36 0 7 14 0 2 5 15
48 Vanderbilt SEC +17.29 16 2012 155 2019 50 0 3 12 0 0 2 8
49 Baylor B12 +17.23 8 2010 236 2005 80 1 5 11 0 0 4 8
50 Clemson ACC +17.12 11 1997 164 2000 45 0 7 12 0 0 2 7
51 Mississippi St. SEC +16.83 14 2004 256 2013 77 0 3 9 0 0 0 7
52 Kansas St. B12 +16.64 6 2010 161 2000 57 1 3 9 0 0 2 9
53 Providence BE +16.43 24 2004 162 2000 69 0 2 7 0 0 1 7
54 Minnesota B10 +16.33 4 1997 192 2016 52 1 2 11 0 1 1 8
55 Arkansas SEC +16.29 20 2006 134 2003 54 0 2 11 0 0 0 10
56 Wichita St. Amer +15.97 6 2014 189 2001 64 2 7 10 0 1 3 8
57 Wake Forest ACC +15.90 5 1997 259 2011 60 3 6 9 0 0 1 8
58 Texas A&M SEC +15.85 7 2007 213 2002 89 1 4 9 0 0 3 8
59 Utah P12 +15.80 7 1998 302 2012 45 4 5 13 0 1 4 11
60 Texas Tech B12 +15.42 5 2019 239 2013 80 1 2 8 0 1 3 7
61 Georgia SEC +15.35 16 2003 205 2005 73 0 2 6 0 0 0 6
62 California P12 +15.27 13 1997 244 2018 60 0 3 10 0 0 1 9
63 Virginia Tech ACC +14.77 13 2019 234 2001 84 0 1 7 0 0 1 4
64 BYU WCC +14.60 10 2010 279 1997 50 1 4 12 0 0 1 10
65 Georgia Tech ACC +14.34 8 2004 174 2012 77 1 3 7 0 1 1 5
66 Temple Amer +14.33 4 2000 150 2014 59 1 6 10 0 0 2 12
67 Seton Hall BE +14.33 26 2018 117 2013 76 0 0 4 0 0 1 7
68 South Carolina SEC +14.31 19 2006 209 2013 70 0 3 7 0 1 1 4
69 Auburn SEC +14.30 4 1999 234 2011 88 1 3 5 0 1 3 5
70 Mississippi SEC +14.16 17 1998 147 2006 60 0 3 9 0 0 1 8
71 Arizona St. P12 +13.92 15 2009 230 2012 70 0 1 6 0 0 0 4
72 UNLV MWC +13.26 29 2011 248 2017 79 0 0 7 0 0 1 8
73 VCU A10 +12.97 18 2013 218 1998 68 0 2 7 0 1 1 11
74 San Diego St. MWC +12.50 8 2011 275 1999 78 1 2 8 0 0 2 9
75 St. John's BE +12.40 7 1999 211 2016 79 1 1 5 0 0 1 6
76 Saint Mary's WCC +12.24 15 2017 315 2001 65 0 2 9 0 0 1 8
77 Nebraska B10 +12.18 39 2008 159 2000 82 0 0 3 0 0 0 2
78 Boston College ACC +11.87 12 2001 261 2012 77 0 3 7 0 0 1 8
79 Dayton A10 +11.84 26 2010 172 2018 64 0 0 7 0 0 1 8
80 Colorado P12 +11.72 34 2003 216 2007 72 0 0 2 0 0 0 6
  Team Conf Rtg Best Worst Median Top 10 Top 25 Top 50 CH F4 S16 R1
81 New Mexico MWC +11.53 20 2012 188 2019 88 0 3 10 0 0 0 8
82 Utah St. MWC +10.85 21 2005 142 1999 88 0 3 8 0 0 0 10
83 Penn St. B10 +10.82 19 2018 227 2004 101 0 1 5 0 0 1 2
84 Saint Joseph's A10 +10.60 3 2004 189 2019 79 1 3 8 0 0 2 7
85 Northwestern B10 +10.27 38 2017 257 2000 122 0 0 3 0 0 0 1
86 Tulsa Amer +10.17 7 2000 211 2006 85 1 2 5 0 0 1 6
87 TCU B12 +10.02 18 1998 265 2013 126 0 2 4 0 0 0 2
88 Nevada MWC +9.66 20 2004 270 2015 106 0 2 5 0 0 2 7
89 SMU Amer +9.18 11 2017 283 2008 130 0 2 4 0 0 0 2
90 Northern Iowa MVC +8.97 18 2015 228 2001 95 0 1 4 0 0 1 7
91 Davidson A10 +8.94 11 2008 232 2001 119 0 1 3 0 0 1 9
92 Houston Amer +8.54 12 2019 230 1998 132 0 2 2 0 0 1 3
93 Saint Louis A10 +8.26 14 2012 289 2015 106 0 2 3 0 0 0 6
94 Rhode Island A10 +8.22 20 1997 251 2005 115 0 1 4 0 0 1 5
95 Oregon St. P12 +7.48 64 2016 264 2017 115 0 0 0 0 0 0 1
96 UAB CUSA +7.43 46 2004 196 2017 95 0 0 1 0 0 1 5
97 George Washington A10 +7.42 38 2005 293 2019 105 0 0 5 0 0 0 6
98 Washington St. P12 +7.41 10 2008 216 2002 124 1 1 3 0 0 1 2
99 Boise St. MWC +7.22 47 2015 214 2005 122 0 0 2 0 0 0 1
100 Richmond A10 +7.21 38 2004 278 2007 99 0 0 3 0 0 1 4
101 DePaul BE +7.20 30 2000 233 1997 150 0 0 2 0 0 0 2
102 Rutgers B10 +7.12 37 1999 279 2016 120 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
103 Illinois St. MVC +6.89 43 1998 237 2011 102 0 0 3 0 0 0 2
104 Massachusetts A10 +6.89 28 1998 236 2019 125 0 0 3 0 0 0 3
105 Old Dominion CUSA +6.78 37 2010 276 2013 106 0 0 2 0 0 0 6
106 Missouri St. MVC +6.77 21 1999 255 2015 89 0 1 3 0 0 1 1
107 Southern Illinois MVC +6.64 16 2007 223 2015 124 0 1 5 0 0 2 6
108 Kent St. MAC +6.58 14 2002 211 2018 99 0 1 2 0 0 1 5
109 Fresno St. MWC +6.54 30 2001 207 2009 106 0 0 1 0 0 0 3
110 Colorado St. MWC +6.39 22 2013 265 2008 108 0 1 1 0 0 0 3
111 Akron MAC +6.16 45 2007 255 2018 108 0 0 1 0 0 0 3
112 New Mexico St. WAC +6.08 53 2019 271 2005 98 0 0 0 0 0 0 10
113

Western Kentucky

Program rankings show nmsu behind most MWC teams.  

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3 hours ago, alum93 said:

Not buying it.  We both suck.  I know the in state history much better than you, most likely.  And there was a time where NMSU beating UNM in football was a huge deal because of the overall record.  It hasn't been that way for 10 years, and heck you could even go back 20 years.  UNM is 13-8 going back to 1998,  5-5 going back to 2009.  That is not the definition of "no in state competition" by any means.  If you go back to the 1930s and 40s, well that's a different story.  But that has no relevance on modern day college sports either.  Last 10 years or 20 years, take your pick, the teams more years than not have been evenly matched.  I don't think going back 20 years has any relevance either, but it just shows the dominance has been gone for several decades.  Last 10 years is probably a better metric for current status of the in state rivalry.  Last 3 years is even better because it's reflective of more current players and coaches.  NMSU is 2-1.  I am referring to actual head to head competition in response to Stunner's post by the way, not comparing overall records against other teams.  I assume that is what he meant by in state competition, but i could be wrong.

nmsu has lost 5 of the last 7 vs UNM football.  Before that nmsu beat Locksley 3 times.  Big deal.  Locksley won 3 games in his years here, and couldn't even beat nmsu.

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33 minutes ago, stchas said:

nmsu has lost 5 of the last 7 vs UNM football.  Before that nmsu beat Locksley 3 times.  Big deal.  Locksley won 3 games in his years here, and couldn't even beat nmsu.

You say UNM won 5 of 7.  i say NMSU won 5 of  last 10.  i say NMSU won 2 of last 3.  However you want to slice and dice the particular year, it's been more competitive both the last 10 years and last 20 years than the previous 80.  Heck, 13-8 over 21 years.  2 decades is an eternity in college football.   I don't care who the coach was at either school.  Coaches come and go.  It's been nice to see a decent amount of wins and split the last 10 years.  Until one school gets significantly better, you will continue to see good competitive games.  This year should be no different in Albq.  Put it another way, if you are expecting a lopsided game or blowout,  you are probably going to be disappointed.  However you want to use that to judge Davie or Martin is up to you.  

And the point wasn't to trash talk.  It was to answer Stunner's own "no in state" competition with facts about football and basketball and current status of both schools.  I could go back 30 years, but it has no relevance.  After that, you are on your own.  Didn't start watching the rivalry games until 1989.  For what it's worth,  agree that Locks was an absolute disaster and Long was the real deal.  Both are gone and now you are rolling with Davie.  From the outside, he looked like he had it going in the right direction before falling flat last 2 years.  And i won't pretend to know any details about your current team except that you brought in quite a few JC kids and replaced both coordinators.  Probably not a good combination, but we'll know soon enough right?

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15 hours ago, madmartigan said:

Oregon and Indiana produce a decent amount of HS football talent. Touche on Nebraska. Also, the state of New Mexico is poor. 

And endowment is irrelevant to athletics since in every case I've ever heard of, that money is devoted solely to academics.

BTW, there's no better example of how little football means to UNM fans than that only a couple have come in here to say their school shouldn't drop the sport.

Boom goes the dynamite.

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If UNM had more money, Davie would be gone which would be huge for the program.  When everyone knows that he would be gone if UNM wasn't broke, it really makes it a tough year for everyone involved.  Davie should have quit and went back to broadcasting.  Not that he is any good at that either.  

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3 hours ago, alum93 said:

I honestly can't tell when he is being sarcastic or serious.  I am sure it bugs the heck out of BYU fans though that you can beat them on a regular basis in football.  

YBU's football problems could be easily fixed. Just fire the athletic director and, in turn, the head coach and hire the best applicant for each job regardless of whether they're LDS.

Boom goes the dynamite.

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Just now, SleepingGiantFan said:

And endowment is irrelevant to athletics since in every case I've ever heard of, that money is devoted solely to academics.

BTW, there's no better example of how little football means to UNM fans than that only a couple have come in here to say their school shouldn't drop the sport.

UNM shouldn't drop football. The university has never shown a commitment to football. Every time we have a period of success the university finds a way to phuck it up. Lobo fans see this and just give up. Now UNM is stuck financially and things will only get worse. Krebs has done a ton of damage that will take time to recover from. Hopefully he has some dirt on the Clintons, and New Mexico taxpayers won't be on the hook for his room and board.

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5 hours ago, alum93 said:

Not buying it.  We both suck.  I know the in state history much better than you, most likely.  And there was a time where NMSU beating UNM in football was a huge deal because of the overall record.  It hasn't been that way for 10 years, and heck you could even go back 20 years.  UNM is 13-8 going back to 1998,  5-5 going back to 2009.  That is not the definition of "no in state competition" by any means.  If you go back to the 1930s and 40s, well that's a different story.  But that has no relevance on modern day college sports either.  Last 10 years or 20 years, take your pick, the teams more years than not have been evenly matched.  I don't think going back 20 years has any relevance either, but it just shows the dominance has been gone for several decades.  Last 10 years is probably a better metric for current status of the in state rivalry.  Last 3 years is even better because it's reflective of more current players and coaches.  NMSU is 2-1.  I am referring to actual head to head competition in response to Stunner's post by the way, not comparing overall records against other teams.  I assume that is what he meant by in state competition, but i could be wrong.

everytime you post you give more evidence of UNM's underachieving.

 

 

Probably not by design, but whatever.

 

 

 

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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Stunner, nice troll, four pages! Serious answer is, while yes, UNM is the flagship school as a Tier-1 research establishment, politically, the Ags and the Lobos are nearly even in-state. In a state that is dependent on federal spending, oil and gas and ag. The latter two have good years and bad years. The current governor is doing everything she can to damage the oil and gas cash cow, soooooo I won't be expecting education at any level in NM to be getting more funding soon.

   To be fair, the Leg spends what it can and already funds UNM Athletics quite a bit more than NMSU. The difference, which makes UNM a mid-MWC player is in fundraising; people are actually, given the economic conditions, pretty generous.

Drop football? Not yet, but pay attention. I think we'll overperform a bit this year, the schedule is in our favor, but next year it's brutal. We'll see.

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1 hour ago, RSF said:

everytime you post you give more evidence of UNM's underachieving.

 

 

Probably not by design, but whatever.

 

 

 

I am responding to the in state competitiveness and Stunner's comments in particular and you are referring to the overall programs.  We aren't really disagreeing more so than talking different topics.

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I’ve been to every state west of the Mississippi River except for New Mexico. The only three areas I’m even aware of in New Mexico are Albuquerque, Santa Fe, and the area the Abomb was developed, Alamogordo? Other than that I know nothing about New Mexico. I never hear any promotions to visit New Mexico. 

I would think they would have a hard time drawing out of state students much less good athletes. 

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1 hour ago, soupslam1 said:

I’ve been to every state west of the Mississippi River except for New Mexico. The only three areas I’m even aware of in New Mexico are Albuquerque, Santa Fe, and the area the Abomb was developed, Alamogordo? Other than that I know nothing about New Mexico. I never hear any promotions to visit New Mexico. 

I would think they would have a hard time drawing out of state students much less good athletes. 

Although there's a lot of nothing in NM, there's also some cool things to see. Unfortunately, Mrs. SGF refuses to go there so I haven't been in three decades.

The Four Corners area in far northwest NM is awesome because of the Native American dwellings built into the side of mountains. Gotta get back there before I'm six feet under. Way underrated IMO is Carlsbad Caverns. I've been to several underground caves but none are close to CC. To me, it's as mind blowing as the Grand Canyon albeit for a shorter period of time.

I also liked Santa Fe. However, if I want that type of vibe, Sedona, AZ is closer. Albuquerque? Uh . . . they filmed Breaking Bad there?

Boom goes the dynamite.

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3 hours ago, bsu_alum9 said:

 

 

As I am sure  you are aware endowments are not generally used for sports related expenditures. My statement pertained to other types, of expenditures.  Primarily academic ones. 

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Start winning and the town will support you?  Sounds like a great fanbase.  It's amazing you don't do better in football with that support.  Welcome to the ABQ fishbowl.

UNM has roughly twice the budget of NMSU.  Yet you are saying to fund UNM even more, specifically by taking away the pittance that NMSU receives and UNM will suddenly be a FB powerhouse?

The biggest money revenue game for UNM, the one that dictates their attendance numbers for the year are the rivalry games with NMSU.  But yeah, let's remove their FB program.  Great idea.

Anyone can pick and choose stats, time frames, websites or any other "metric" to prove their point.  But the rivalry between NMSU and UNM is very important for the state and and fans.  That's a fact.

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Guest #1Stunner
33 minutes ago, PojoPops said:

Start winning and the town will support you?  Sounds like a great fanbase.  It's amazing you don't do better in football with that support.  Welcome to the ABQ fishbowl.

UNM has roughly twice the budget of NMSU.  Yet you are saying to fund UNM even more, specifically by taking away the pittance that NMSU receives and UNM will suddenly be a FB powerhouse?

The biggest money revenue game for UNM, the one that dictates their attendance numbers for the year are the rivalry games with NMSU.  But yeah, let's remove their FB program.  Great idea.

Anyone can pick and choose stats, time frames, websites or any other "metric" to prove their point.  But the rivalry between NMSU and UNM is very important for the state and and fans.  That's a fact.

Sorry, but your take is all wrong.

The University of New Mexico is the flagship of the State.   It needs to be funded at a much higher level than it is currently....  Dreamstyle Stadium is an embarrassment!!   And Bob Davie?!?!?!?!?

The State needs to get its act together and start funding Lobos athletics.

And it's clear that NMSU can't find a home for football, so their program might need to be shut down, and their budget diverted over to the Lobos Nation.

Can you imagine if Lobos gear was worn with pride throughout the entire State?. 

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3 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

Sorry, but your take is all wrong.

The University of New Mexico is the flagship of the State.   It needs to be funded at a much higher level than it is currently....  Dreamstyle Stadium is an embarrassment!!   And Bob Davie?!?!?!?!?

The State needs to get its act together and start funding Lobos athletics.

And it's clear that NMSU can't find a home for football, so their program might need to be shut down, and their budget diverted over to the Lobos Nation.

Can you imagine if Lobos gear was worn with pride throughout the entire State?. 

No i can't imagine it.  What i do know is i rarely see Lobo gear,  almost never, in the southern part of the state.  As to be expected.  

You seem to imply there is a mythical fund source sitting around somewhere that simply hasn't been tapped into.  Good luck finding the pot of gold.  Until then, i see us playing the annual rivalry games for many years to come.  Enjoy!

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4 minutes ago, Bob said:

There are a crazy amount of D-1 football players produced by Utah. It's quite impressive, actually. Lots of gigantic inbred Utahans and Samoans  

The poly pipeline has been a lifeblood for Utah programs. 

There are only two things I can't stand in this world: people who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch. 

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