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TheSanDiegan

A DIY Study on Correlating Gun Violence Everyone Can Do

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40 minutes ago, TheSanDiegan said:

Gawd you're colossally retarded and/or horrendously illiterate.

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Linky for stinky

You have no idea what you are talking about.  You can post all the links you want but a gun that can hold a group at 100 yards most often can't do the same at 1000.

An AR-15 that shoots 1/8 minute of angle at 100 yards would be lucking to put 1 in 10 shots on a 6 foot by 10 foot target at 1000 yards.  You can't even tell me why because you have no clue.

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On 8/10/2019 at 6:24 PM, bluerules009 said:

You have no idea what you are talking about.  You can post all the links you want but a gun that can hold a group at 100 yards most often can't do the same at 1000.

An AR-15 that shoots 1/8 minute of angle at 100 yards would be lucking to put 1 in 10 shots on a 6 foot by 10 foot target at 1000 yards.  You can't even tell me why because you have no clue.

You keep mentioning an AR, even though I never once have - I explicitly told you that grouping was shot with a bolt-action .308.

Drinking the leaded paint again, blu?

And yes, I understand ballistics (again, taught the subject to SOs, f*cktard). And I'm guessing since our respective paths in life resulted in me earning a math degree and you cooking meth at some degree, I probably understand the subject a wee bit better than your paint sniffing ass.

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21 minutes ago, TheSanDiegan said:

You keep mentioning an AR, even though I never once have - I explicitly told you that grouping was shot with a bolt-action .308.

Drinking the leaded paint again, blu?

And yes, I understand ballistics (again, taught the subject to SOs, f*cktard). And I'm guessing since our respective paths in life resulted in me earning a math degree and you cooking meth to some degree, I probably understand the subject a wee bit better than your paint sniffing ass.

Tell me why an AR  and a 308 would have the same problem at a 1000 yards and a 330 lapua and a 50 cal wouldn't then?

Then tell what you could do to fix the 308 so it could be accurate at 1000 and why you couldn't do the same for the AR?

If you can't answer that really one simple shooting question you have proven yourself ignorant.

 

We won't even talk about how you adjust for wind, heat, cold or anything difficult because you can't tell me.

 

Not to mention without googling it you had no idea spin or parallax were or why they were an issue.    Or why sights matter at longer ranges.  Even a gun capable of shooting accurately at 1000 yards will not be effective if it doesn't have the right sights.

SHooting at 100 yards accurately any 6 year old could do with 5 minutes instruction.   Not to mention you just went up there with your pencil and punched a couple holes.

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On 8/11/2019 at 11:20 AM, bluerules009 said:

Tell me why an AR  and a 308 would have the same problem at a 1000 yards and a 330 lapua and a 50 cal wouldn't then?

Then tell what you could do to fix the 308 so it could be accurate at 1000 and why you couldn't do the same for the AR?

If you can't answer that really one simple shooting question you have proven yourself ignorant.

To begin with, wtf is a "330 lapua?" I assume you meant to say the .338 Laupua? :huh: 

Maybe there is a .330 Lapua out there somewhere (there's a .300), but if so, I'm unaware of it. Then again, I don't shoot as often as I used to and haven't posted regularly on a firearms forum (calguns.net) for years.

So you're asking, why do rounds that were designed to have a much greater effective range have a much greater effective range than rounds that weren't designed for the same purpose? :blink: Lulz. What's next - what color was George Washington's white horse? But to answer your question, again, it's simply an issue of ballistics - faster, heavier rounds with a higher rotational velocity retain more energy over distance and thus have a flatter trajectory (in general). Dude, it's physics, not magic.

To your second question, are we speaking of the AR platform in general, or with regards to a specific caliber? Because if the former, I would push back and say that by swapping uppers and switching to a round with superior ballistics (e.g., 6.5 Creedmoor), combined with a free floated match grade barrel, I imagine such an AR build could outperform the .308 (NOTE: I did have to look up BC charts to compare the respective ballistics). But if we're limiting the discussion to .223, even match grade ammo will go transonic before the .308.

And to extend the 'working range' of the .308, I would think the same general approach you might take in any caliber build (e.g., free float a longer barrel with a tighter twist and marry it to match grade ammo) would work, though tbh I don't know why you couldn't take the same approach with an AR build. 

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2 hours ago, TheSanDiegan said:

To begin with, wtf is a "330 lapua?" Do you mean to say the .338 Laupua? :huh: 

Maybe there is a .330 Lapua out there somewhere (there's a .300), but if so, I'm unaware of it. Then again, I don't shoot as often as I used to and haven't posted regularly on a firearms forum (calguns.net) for years.

 

Yes you found a typo, good job!

2 hours ago, TheSanDiegan said:

But to answer your question, why do rounds that were designed to have a much greater effective range have a much greater effective range? :blink: Lulz. What's next - what color was George Washington's white horse? But to answer your question, again, it's simply an issue of terminal ballistics - faster, heavier rounds with a higher rotational velocity retain more energy over distance and thus have a flatter trajectory. Dude, it's physics, not magic.

 

 

Wrong

If that were true a 223 with your regular ball ammunition would shoot fine at a 1000 yards and it doesn't  No matter what barrel you use.

You have no understanding of what you talk about.  

 

2 hours ago, TheSanDiegan said:

To your second question, are we speaking of the AR platform in general, or with regards to a specific round (read: .223)? Because if the former, I would push back and say that by swapping uppers and switching to a round with superior ballistics (e.g., 6.5 Creedmoor), combined with a free float match grade barrel, such an AR build could outperform the .308 (NOTE: I did have to look up BC charts to compare the respective ballistics). But if we're limiting the discussion to .223, even match grade ammo will go transonic before the .308.

Creedmore is an AR 10 platform not AR 15.

You could build no AR 15, 223 platform that would outperform a 308 at a 1000 yards.   Again you are clueless and have no idea why which is funny as shit.  HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

2 hours ago, TheSanDiegan said:

And to extend the 'working range' of the .308, I would think the same general approach you might take in any caliber build (e.g., free float a longer barrel with a tighter twist and marry it to match grade ammo) would work, though tbh I don't know why you couldn't take the same approach with an AR build. 

None of those things you suggest matter more than a few inches in a group at a 1000 yards.   I am talking about the difference of even being on the paper and not being within 6 feet of your target if you don't know a couple basic things.

 

You have no experience other than as a board warrior with long range shooting.  You are a joke.

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1 minute ago, bluerules009 said:

Creedmore is an AR 10 platform not AR 15.

Read your own quote, dipshit:

On 8/11/2019 at 11:20 AM, bluerules009 said:

Tell me why an AR  and a 308 would have the same problem at a 1000 yards and a 330 lapua and a 50 cal wouldn't then?

Then tell what you could do to fix the 308 so it could be accurate at 1000 and why you couldn't do the same for the AR?

You really need your own subforum just so you can argue with yourself.

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3 minutes ago, bluerules009 said:

You could build no AR 15, 223 platform that would outperform a 308 at a 1000 yards.   Again you are clueless and have no idea why which is funny as shit.  HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

Again, you might want to try actually reading the post, numbnuts:

3 hours ago, TheSanDiegan said:

But if we're limiting the discussion to .223, even match grade ammo will go transonic before the .308.

F*ck you're illiterate.

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5 minutes ago, bluerules009 said:

You have no experience other than as a board warrior with long range shooting.  You are a joke.

Again: I've posted a pic of my best grouping.

Pic of your best grouping or you're full of shit.

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3 minutes ago, bluerules009 said:

It isn't my fault you don't understand the subject.   Good job on the typo though!   HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

Just like I don't understand anything about correlation, amirite?

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1 minute ago, TheSanDiegan said:

Again: I've posted a pic of my best grouping.

Pic of your best grouping or you're full of shit.

You posted a target with some holes in it. 

I have no idea how far away or what pencil you used to punch those holes.

 

From your exhibited knowledge in this thread i can tell you know nothing about shooting.

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1 hour ago, bluerules009 said:

You posted a target with some holes in it. 

I have no idea how far away or what pencil you used to punch those holes.

 

From your exhibited knowledge in this thread i can tell you know nothing about shooting.

I'm not sure whether to be surprised, or not surprised at all, that you're so delusional you think I went to the trouble of staging a grouping would do anything to try to impress you.  There is nothing I have stated that was not factually accurate, nor have you been able to refute a single thing. 

You, on the other hand, keep arguing with yourself. Reading your posts is like watching this gif over and over:

tenor.gif

Pro Tip: If you can find the first posting of that grouping pic in 2009 (with a caliper measuring the group), you'll know one of my aliases I've used on other fora and will be able to view hundreds of posts I made there regarding such topics as reloading the .308.

 

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1 hour ago, TheSanDiegan said:

I'm not sure whether to be surprised, or not surprised at all, that you're so delusional you think I went to the trouble of staging a grouping would do anything to try to impress you.  There is nothing I have stated that was not factually accurate, nor have you been able to refute a single thing. 

You, on the other hand, keep arguing with yourself. Reading your posts is like watching this gif over and over:

tenor.gif

Pro Tip: If you can find the first posting of that grouping pic in 2009 (with a caliper measuring the group), you'll know one of my aliases I've used on other fora and will be able to view hundreds of posts I made there regarding such topics as reloading the .308.

 

 

I don't think you staged it.   There is not much skill in a group at 100ish yards.  

Just pointing out how little value it would be to post a picture of a target.

When you do something that requires skill, you will have a whole lot more education on the subject of shooting.  You don't even know what you don't know.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, bluerules009 said:

I don't think you staged it.   There is not much skill in a group at 100ish yards.  

Just pointing out how little value it would be to post a picture of a target.

When you do something that requires skill, you will have a whole lot more education on the subject of shooting.  You don't even know what you don't know.

Growing up my late uncle would take me camping in the high desert. We would hunt/dress/cook/eat rabbit. And when I was a teenager, county animal control used to have a $50/head bounty on yotes. We'd hunt them from the bed of a pickup on the border trail. Not an easy target to hit. I bet that yote you claimed to have hit at 1100 yards had no clue what was coming. Try hitting one hauling ass through chaparral brush at 1/20th that distance.

But please, by all means, enlighten me. I'd be more than happy if you wanted to switch from zero-calorie bloviating to actually telling me something of substance I don't already know. If you perceive a lack of knowledge on my part, then you must also perceive an empty cup to fill with yours. So let's hear it. Honestly blu, I'd be happy to expand my base of knowledge, even if it came from you. ;)

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BTW, f*ck me if this isn't #MWCBoarding at its finest... 

- A 2 1/2-page left-turn tangent based on one of @bluerules009's rando baseless ad hominems? Check

- Resulting in a deep-dive discussion on something probably of interest to 5-10% of the board? Check.

- Two people who are pretty much complete polar opposites of each other talking about possibly the one thing in which they both share an interest? Check.

 

 

God bless the internets, God bless America, and God bless the MWC Board.  :rock:

 

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28 minutes ago, TheSanDiegan said:

Growing up my late uncle would take me camping in the high desert. We would hunt/dress/cook/eat rabbit. And when I was a teenager, county animal control used to have a $50/head bounty on yotes. We'd hunt them from the bed of a pickup on the border trail. Not an easy target to hit. I bet that yote you claimed to have hit at 1100 yards had no clue what was coming. Try hitting one hauling ass through chaparral brush at 1/20th that distance.

But please, by all means, enlighten me. I'd be more than happy if you wanted to switch from zero-calorie bloviating to actually telling me something of substance I don't already know. If you perceive a lack of knowledge on my part, then you must also perceive an empty cup to fill with yours. So let's hear it. Honestly blu, I'd be happy to expand my base of knowledge, even if it came from you. ;)

I made $55K in 1978 shooting and trapping coyotes and bobcats as well as muskrats.  

I shoot 100+ coyotes a year for fur.   Calling them in is fun.

I have shot more running coyotes than you could ever imagine.

Now tell me what weapon could i use without much skill that i could hit a running coyote within range about 90% of the time?   I will give you a clue, i often call coyotes when chukar hunting.

 

The 1100 yard shot was a standing shot.   I could never hit a coyote running at that range.  You are right they are about the coyote being most difficult rifle shot you can make, they know how to use cover.

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1 hour ago, bluerules009 said:

I made $55K in 1978 shooting and trapping coyotes and bobcats as well as muskrats.  

I shoot 100+ coyotes a year for fur.   Calling them in is fun.

I have shot more running coyotes than you could ever imagine.

Now tell me what weapon could i use without much skill that i could hit a running coyote within range about 90% of the time?   I will give you a clue, i often call coyotes when chukar hunting.

 

The 1100 yard shot was a standing shot.   I could never hit a coyote running at that range.  You are right they are about the coyote being most difficult rifle shot you can make, they know how to use cover.

If I was coyote hunting now, I'd want a .223. If I were hunting quail I'm shooting birdshot. What's "within range" when you're coyote hunting? 

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1 hour ago, TheSanDiegan said:

If I was coyote hunting now, I'd want a .223. If I were hunting quail I'm shooting birdshot. What's "within range" when you're coyote hunting? 

Within range is dependent on what gun you have.   A 223 is about the worst possible gun you could use for coyote hunting unless you are spending a lot of money on reloads and using frangible bullets because otherwise the bullet will go through the coyote opening a big hole on the opposite side.  Making the hide much less valuable.

The best gun for calling coyotes is a shotgun with #4 buck.  Within range is up to 80 yards.   Doesn't matter if the coyote is running or if you are any kind of shot, you will get him.  You will hit him with multiple 24 caliber pellets that won't go through the body.  My personal record is 5 coyotes killed in one sitting.  They were racing each other trying to get to me to eat that wailing rabbit.   Greed is always a killer.

Otherwise for sport when i specifically go coyote hunting, i usually us a 6.5 creedmoor with 100 grain frangible jacketed boat tail rounds.  Accurate at any kind of range, far past what i can shoot.  Plus you deliver all the bullet energy to the coyote as the bullet does not exit the other side.  It isn't like you are going to eat the meat so a frangible round is much more deadly and preserves the value of the hide.  Which last year were selling for about an $80 average.    

There are jacketed frangible rounds for a 308, you would be better off using them than your 223.

 

By the way the best gun for almost every use is a shotgun.   The military uses rifles because they have range, the individual can carry more ammo and the ammo is cheaper.  Plus they are using heavy weapon machine guns for fire support.     My competition shotgun has a 17 round tube.  With 3 inch # 4 buck that is  41, 24 caliber pellets every time i pull the trigger and a pump shotgun can fire faster than an semi auto.   So in less than 20 seconds i could put 738 pellets down range.   Then i can detach the tube and put on another one just like you can change magazines on your AR.  No semi auto rifle can do anything close to that in a minute.   Not to mention there is a miniscule chance of jamming the gun unlike a semi auto AR with a big magazine which is just a jam waiting to happen.

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, bluerules009 said:

Within range is dependent on what gun you have.   A 223 is about the worst possible gun you could use for coyote hunting unless you are spending a lot of money on reloads and using frangible bullets because otherwise the bullet will go through the coyote opening a big hole on the opposite side.  Making the hide much less valuable.

The best gun for calling coyotes is a shotgun with #4 buck.  Within range is up to 80 yards.   Doesn't matter if the coyote is running or if you are any kind of shot, you will get him.  You will hit him with multiple 24 caliber pellets that won't go through the body.  My personal record is 5 coyotes killed in one sitting.  They were racing each other trying to get to me to eat that wailing rabbit.   Greed is always a killer.

Otherwise for sport when i specifically go coyote hunting, i usually us a 6.5 creedmoor with 100 grain frangible jacketed boat tail rounds.  Accurate at any kind of range, far past what i can shoot.  Plus you deliver all the bullet energy to the coyote as the bullet does not exit the other side.  It isn't like you are going to eat the meat so a frangible round is much more deadly and preserves the value of the hide.  Which last year were selling for about an $80 average.    

There are jacketed frangible rounds for a 308, you would be better off using them than your 223.

 

By the way the best gun for almost every use is a shotgun.   The military uses rifles because they have range, the individual can carry more ammo and the ammo is cheaper.  Plus they are using heavy weapon machine guns for fire support.     My competition shotgun has a 17 round tube.  With 3 inch # 4 buck that is  41, 24 caliber pellets every time i pull the trigger and a pump shotgun can fire faster than an semi auto.   So in less than 20 seconds i could put 738 pellets down range.   Then i can detach the tube and put on another one just like you can change magazines on your AR.  No semi auto rifle can do anything close to that in a minute.   Not to mention there is a miniscule chance of jamming the gun unlike a semi auto AR with a big magazine which is just a jam waiting to happen.

40g varmint rounds. 

Re: #4 buck, I figured from your question you were using a shotty. An old Mexican friend used to reach out for small game with his 870. 

I've never shot the 6.5 Creedmoor and in fact think it was on here I first heard about it (maybe from you, even?). 

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