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retrofade

An interaction with my new neighbor today...

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5 hours ago, renoskier said:

Are we talking Vallejo today or Vellejo 40+ years ago?

I was never there 40 years ago but 20 years ago, I can say wholeheartedly, it was as much of a shithole as it is now. 

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28 minutes ago, Joe from WY said:

I was never there 40 years ago but 20 years ago, I can say wholeheartedly, it was as much of a shithole as it is now. 

It's safe to say that the schools in Vallejo were racially segregated "before busing".

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12 hours ago, Orange said:

I think things like busing are complicated issues, and you don't.  That's the difference between us.  School integration is a necessary prerequisite to healing the racial divide in this country, and busing is intended to accomplish that.  It brings with it short-term racial animus and anger, but in the longer term, the goal is to expose more of our students to other cultures and people so we can learn that, generally speaking, we're all the same.

If you stay hold up in your white school, with white friends, and vice-versa, none of that will happen.

It is posts like this that make it abundantly clear that you really have no life experiences to draw on.  With you, it is never about things you experienced.  You just parrot back the ivory tower ramblings of your college professors' programming.

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2 hours ago, renoskier said:

It's safe to say that the schools in Vallejo were racially segregated "before busing".

Vallejo is a complicated place, racially.  There were always large black and hispanic communities.  In the 80s, there was a large influx of filipinos and quite a few polys.  I think the busing started in the early 70s.  My sister had to be picked up from school several times in the mid 70s due to race riots.  By the time I was in high school in the late 80s, things were more of a simmer.  Still, a fight could start simply by accidentally knocking shoulders with a black kid as you passed in the hall.  The black kids in my high school were super aggressive.  I remember once walking down the hallway when someone started slapping me in the back of the head.  I turned around and this black girl (we later were friends) was screaming at me not to call her that (she thought I called her the N word).  I heard who said it, but racial slurs were common place and I did not even think about it.  I told her it wasn't me but she kept trying to take swings at me.  I pushed her away from me and kept walking.  Several black kids then pushed me against the wall and held my arms down so she could swing away.  My friends tried to get me out but got pulled away.  Then a huge kid (he was black too) came and grabbed me and carried me out. The kicker is that the dean (also black) blamed me for starting the fight.

These were not isolated events.  I could write about many of them.  My best friend was a good baseball player.  He got jumped by several black kids after gym class for fielding a ball at short stop and throwing the kid out.  I don't want to over state it.  These things were not daily, but they certainly were weekly across the school.  Looking back decades later, I can understand what was going on and I don't harbor any resentment.  I for sure had resentment when I was 15 years old and trying to make sure I did not literally rub shoulders with the wrong person.  It is why I laugh at people like Orange who spout off stuff they read in a social studies text or something they heard some ivory tower professor say.  Real kids have to deal with these policies and experiments.  I can only imagine what it must have been like to attend high school in Richmond, El Cerrito, or East Palo Alto at the time.

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6 minutes ago, BYUcougfan said:

Vallejo is a complicated place, racially.  There were always large black and hispanic communities.  In the 80s, there was a large influx of filipinos and quite a few polys.  I think the busing started in the early 70s.  My sister had to be picked up from school several times in the mid 70s due to race riots.  By the time I was in high school in the late 80s, things were more of a simmer.  Still, a fight could start simply by accidentally knocking shoulders with a black kid as you passed in the hall.  The black kids in my high school were super aggressive.  I remember once walking down the hallway when someone started slapping me in the back of the head.  I turned around and this black girl (we later were friends) was screaming at me not to call her that (she thought I called her the N word).  I heard who said it, but racial slurs were common place and I did not even think about it.  I told her it wasn't me but she kept trying to take swings at me.  I pushed her away from me and kept walking.  Several black kids then pushed me against the wall and held my arms down so she could swing away.  My friends tried to get me out but got pulled away.  Then a huge kid (he was black too) came and grabbed me and carried me out. The kicker is that the dean (also black) blamed me for starting the fight.

These were not isolated events.  I could write about many of them.  My best friend was a good baseball player.  He got jumped by several black kids after gym class for fielding a ball at short stop and throwing the kid out.  I don't want to over state it.  These things were not daily, but they certainly were weekly across the school.  Looking back decades later, I can understand what was going on and I don't harbor any resentment.  I for sure had resentment when I was 15 years old and trying to make sure I did not literally rub shoulders with the wrong person.  It is why I laugh at people like Orange who spout off stuff they read in a social studies text or something they heard some ivory tower professor say.  Real kids have to deal with these policies and experiments.  I can only imagine what it must have been like to attend high school in Richmond, El Cerrito, or East Palo Alto at the time.

So...you think segregated is better?

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35 minutes ago, renoskier said:

So...you think segregated is better?

I don't know that I have the answer.  At the time, it was just what I knew.  I can tell you I would not let my own kids be in that situation if I could at all avoid it.  Those tough neighborhoods developed some really predatory behaviors in those kids.  I was not prepared to deal with it.  Most kids are not prepared to deal with it.  I don't think you would let your kids be in those situations if you could avoid it.  It all sounds like sound social policy until it is you or your kids that become part of the experiment.  Trust me, it does not feel like Orange's "short-term racial animus" when it is you or your kids.

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57 minutes ago, BYUcougfan said:

Vallejo is a complicated place, racially.  There were always large black and hispanic communities.  In the 80s, there was a large influx of filipinos and quite a few polys.  I think the busing started in the early 70s.  My sister had to be picked up from school several times in the mid 70s due to race riots.  By the time I was in high school in the late 80s, things were more of a simmer.  Still, a fight could start simply by accidentally knocking shoulders with a black kid as you passed in the hall.  The black kids in my high school were super aggressive.  I remember once walking down the hallway when someone started slapping me in the back of the head.  I turned around and this black girl (we later were friends) was screaming at me not to call her that (she thought I called her the N word).  I heard who said it, but racial slurs were common place and I did not even think about it.  I told her it wasn't me but she kept trying to take swings at me.  I pushed her away from me and kept walking.  Several black kids then pushed me against the wall and held my arms down so she could swing away.  My friends tried to get me out but got pulled away.  Then a huge kid (he was black too) came and grabbed me and carried me out. The kicker is that the dean (also black) blamed me for starting the fight.

These were not isolated events.  I could write about many of them.  My best friend was a good baseball player.  He got jumped by several black kids after gym class for fielding a ball at short stop and throwing the kid out.  I don't want to over state it.  These things were not daily, but they certainly were weekly across the school.  Looking back decades later, I can understand what was going on and I don't harbor any resentment.  I for sure had resentment when I was 15 years old and trying to make sure I did not literally rub shoulders with the wrong person.  It is why I laugh at people like Orange who spout off stuff they read in a social studies text or something they heard some ivory tower professor say.  Real kids have to deal with these policies and experiments.  I can only imagine what it must have been like to attend high school in Richmond, El Cerrito, or East Palo Alto at the time.

This closely resembles my experience in East Texas in the mid 90s

And as for my experience, I would change your statement about aggressive black kids to this: there were many aggressive kids who were black. 

I don't have a statistical or empirical derivation of behaviors from that time so going on anecdote isn't a good idea for the sweeping statements.

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7 hours ago, AndroidAggie said:

This closely resembles my experience in East Texas in the mid 90s

And as for my experience, I would change your statement about aggressive black kids to this: there were many aggressive kids who were black. 

I don't have a statistical or empirical derivation of behaviors from that time so going on anecdote isn't a good idea for the sweeping statements.

That is fair.

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21 hours ago, Joe from WY said:

holed*

Also, I take it you've never been to Vallejo if you're talking about "white schools" and "white friends". 

I realize you're way too +++++ing stupid and/or intellectually dishonest to admit this, but my statement was about busing in general, not just Vallejo.  Congrats on your internet contrarian badge for the week, tho.

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Guest #1Stunner
10 hours ago, BYUcougfan said:

Vallejo is a complicated place, racially.  There were always large black and hispanic communities.  In the 80s, there was a large influx of filipinos and quite a few polys.  I think the busing started in the early 70s.  My sister had to be picked up from school several times in the mid 70s due to race riots.  By the time I was in high school in the late 80s, things were more of a simmer.  Still, a fight could start simply by accidentally knocking shoulders with a black kid as you passed in the hall.  The black kids in my high school were super aggressive.  I remember once walking down the hallway when someone started slapping me in the back of the head.  I turned around and this black girl (we later were friends) was screaming at me not to call her that (she thought I called her the N word).  I heard who said it, but racial slurs were common place and I did not even think about it.  I told her it wasn't me but she kept trying to take swings at me.  I pushed her away from me and kept walking.  Several black kids then pushed me against the wall and held my arms down so she could swing away.  My friends tried to get me out but got pulled away.  Then a huge kid (he was black too) came and grabbed me and carried me out. The kicker is that the dean (also black) blamed me for starting the fight.

These were not isolated events.  I could write about many of them.  My best friend was a good baseball player.  He got jumped by several black kids after gym class for fielding a ball at short stop and throwing the kid out.  I don't want to over state it.  These things were not daily, but they certainly were weekly across the school.  Looking back decades later, I can understand what was going on and I don't harbor any resentment.  I for sure had resentment when I was 15 years old and trying to make sure I did not literally rub shoulders with the wrong person.  It is why I laugh at people like Orange who spout off stuff they read in a social studies text or something they heard some ivory tower professor say.  Real kids have to deal with these policies and experiments.  I can only imagine what it must have been like to attend high school in Richmond, El Cerrito, or East Palo Alto at the time.

But...but....

@Orange said you have lived a sheltered life among rich white people.... How can your story be true!?!

If you had lived in rural Oregon growing up, maybe you'd have ground to talk ...

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4 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

But...but....

@Orange said you have lived a sheltered life among rich white people.... How can your story be true!?!

If you had lived in rural Oregon growing up, maybe you'd have ground to talk ...

Well @Orange grew up in a really white area, so he probably just assumes everybody else did too. 

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10 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

Well @Orange grew up in a really white area, so he probably just assumes everybody else did too. 

Why tf are you playing into their game of "yOu greW  uP in a wHitE aRea so YoUr opIniOn sucKs" game?

Because I live in a white state, it means that there is no credence to the idea that putting children in integrated schools is good for the country?

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43 minutes ago, Orange said:

Why tf are you playing into their game of "yOu greW  uP in a wHitE aRea so YoUr opIniOn sucKs" game?

Because I live in a white state, it means that there is no credence to the idea that putting children in integrated schools is good for the country?

Not playing any game, just pointing out that you assume everybody here is from a very white area, and it’s probably because you are from one. No need to turn in to an emotional wreck over an observation. 

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