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Rocket

Trump Vetoes Bipartisan Bill stopping arms sales to Saudi Arabia

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On 7/26/2019 at 2:37 PM, Uncle Juan said:

This is a win for us. We get $10 billion, the Saudis get weapons they can't maintain or deploy competently. 

Realistically the Saudis would get their asses kicked by Iran in a one on one conflict. Their only saving grace is the UAE. While the UAE is militarily incompetent themselves, the Saudis are on a whole other level of shitty.

This^^^. My brother works for Lockheed.  He was in Saudi, UAE and most recent Bahrain.  Trying to teach any of them(according to him) how to maintain the weapons systems we have sold them is damn near impossible.  He firmly believes the time (14 years) spent in the middle east has been a complete waste of time  (on the educational front). Sure , we ( the military) make good money on some older equipment sold to them. But they lack the ability to use it efficiently. Once again , this is his opinion.

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6 hours ago, sebasour said:

There was quite a bit of backlash when Reagan did it back in the 80's. Selling arms to The Saudi's has never been a popular thing among Americans, this isn't specifically a Trump thing.

You are correct in pointing out some Liberal hypocrisy over this though. They largely did ignore Obama's dealings with them (which I believe were the most weapon sales to The Saudis in US history)

 

8 hours ago, PokeTransplant said:

First time I can remember a bi-partisan effort to stop those sales.  Maybe similar legislation made to previous presidents desk, but I don't have that information.  Maybe you have a source?  My point is that this has been happening for a long time and the first time I can remember a bill being offered to stop this, it gets shut down by the president.  That is why it is a concern, he had an opportunity to stop it and didn't.

Maintaining good relations with the Saudi royal family has been a high bipartisan priority since FDR and King  Abdul Aziz ibn Saud made their Faustian bargain in 1945:  The U.S. would shield the Saudi kingdom’s tyranny from criticism in exchange for a share of oil revenues and Riyadh’s political loyalty (and American arms sales).  

The relationship has continued this way in the decades since, and will still do so. The U.S. has covered up a long history of Saudi crimes and conspiracies; during the Cold War it used the Saudis to spread extremist jihadi ideologies to counter secular Arabs that tilted towards Moscow. More recently, the Saudi regime was not freelancing when it cultivated the likes of Osama bin Laden: He was part of a Saudi-U.S.-Pakistani effort to recruit, arm, and finance fanatical Muslims from around the world to undermine the progressive secular regime in Afghanistan. 

With regards to the attempt to cut off arms sales in the 80s, that owed itself to pressure from the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). Congress opposed arms sales to Saudi Arabia, even as administrations (Democratic and Republican) favored them. AIPAC dropped its objections to weapons sales after the 1990 Iraqi invasion of Kuwait and the establishment of secret contacts between Israel and Gulf countries. And business went back to usual. 

There have been other issues with the Saudis too. Most notably the 1973 Oil Crisis and the incident surrounding the 1980 film "Death of a Princess". Honestly, it doesn't matter what party the administration in power is from; post-1945 they all play ball with the Saudis. And it's not like KSA only recently became some kind of barbaric, medieval backwater. It's always been that way. I've been anti-Saudi for a long, long time, and I'm probably among the most ardent anti-Saudi people I know. Definitely the most anti-Saudi person on this board. So when people get outraged now, out of the blue, and bemoan the "horror" that Trump would sell weapons to the Saudis, it really comes across as naked and shallow "teams and shit"-esque partisanship more than anything else to me. 

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14 hours ago, DestinFlPackfan said:

This^^^. My brother works for Lockheed.  He was in Saudi, UAE and most recent Bahrain.  Trying to teach any of them(according to him) how to maintain the weapons systems we have sold them is damn near impossible.  He firmly believes the time (14 years) spent in the middle east has been a complete waste of time  (on the educational front). Sure , we ( the military) make good money on some older equipment sold to them. But they lack the ability to use it efficiently. Once again , this is his opinion.

A friend in the NG recently spent a year in the Ukraine trying to teach them how to use American supplied weapons. He had the same experience. He pretty much gave up. 

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9 hours ago, Joe from WY said:

 

Maintaining good relations with the Saudi royal family has been a high bipartisan priority since FDR and King  Abdul Aziz ibn Saud made their Faustian bargain in 1945:  The U.S. would shield the Saudi kingdom’s tyranny from criticism in exchange for a share of oil revenues and Riyadh’s political loyalty (and American arms sales).  

The relationship has continued this way in the decades since, and will still do so. The U.S. has covered up a long history of Saudi crimes and conspiracies; during the Cold War it used the Saudis to spread extremist jihadi ideologies to counter secular Arabs that tilted towards Moscow. More recently, the Saudi regime was not freelancing when it cultivated the likes of Osama bin Laden: He was part of a Saudi-U.S.-Pakistani effort to recruit, arm, and finance fanatical Muslims from around the world to undermine the progressive secular regime in Afghanistan. 

With regards to the attempt to cut off arms sales in the 80s, that owed itself to pressure from the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). Congress opposed arms sales to Saudi Arabia, even as administrations (Democratic and Republican) favored them. AIPAC dropped its objections to weapons sales after the 1990 Iraqi invasion of Kuwait and the establishment of secret contacts between Israel and Gulf countries. And business went back to usual. 

There have been other issues with the Saudis too. Most notably the 1973 Oil Crisis and the incident surrounding the 1980 film "Death of a Princess". Honestly, it doesn't matter what party the administration in power is from; post-1945 they all play ball with the Saudis. And it's not like KSA only recently became some kind of barbaric, medieval backwater. It's always been that way. I've been anti-Saudi for a long, long time, and I'm probably among the most ardent anti-Saudi people I know. Definitely the most anti-Saudi person on this board. So when people get outraged now, out of the blue, and bemoan the "horror" that Trump would sell weapons to the Saudis, it really comes across as naked and shallow "teams and shit"-esque partisanship more than anything else to me. 

You obviously have a way deeper understanding of the relationship between the Saudi’s and the US than most on this board or most Americans. Thanks for the education. 

 

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If it were true, the most ardent anti-saudi then why so quiet about it? Where's the outrage? A Republican white guy that allows the killing of an American employed journalist by bonesaw, hey no problemo, normal business as usual. Sure sure Benghazi! Email! sure sure

The hate all starts in the house with parents. Say it isn't so. 🖕

 

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Rocket said:

If it were true, the most ardent anti-saudi then why so quiet about it? Where's the outrage? A Republican white guy that allows the killing of an American employed journalist by bonesaw, hey no problemo, normal business as usual. Sure sure Benghazi! Email! sure sure

The hate all starts in the house with parents. Say it isn't so. 🖕

 

Your gibberish makes no sense to anyone except you in your warped mind. 

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4 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

Your gibberish makes no sense to anyone except you in your warped mind. 

... and the innocent civilians being slaughtered in Yemen, are they in my "warped mind" or are they enabled by a monster like yourself?

 

 

 

 

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Teams and shit, Iran isn't OUR enemy. It's been said that sanctions are an act of war though, economic terrorism. Ever since we fausted with SA we've been gansta, taking people's oil.

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Akkula said:

Yeah,  that is what we said when we were giving the Taliban and Al Qaeda weapons in the 80's to fight Russians. 

Yeah or giving Al Qaeda weapons, money, and logistics to fight the Assad government in Syria under the last administration. 

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10 hours ago, Rocket said:

Teams and shit, Iran isn't OUR enemy. It's been said that sanctions are an act of war though, economic terrorism. Ever since we fausted with SA we've been gansta, taking people's oil.

Thank you Ilhar and Oblama. Iran is our enemy in no uncertain terms.

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14 hours ago, Rocket said:

...? A Republican white guy that allows the killing of an American employed journalist by bonesaw...

 

 

He "allowed it?"  Did they seek his approval before they hacked that terrorist to death?

"Don't underestimate Joe Biden's ability to F@*k things up."

Barack Obama

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9 hours ago, Akkula said:

Yeah,  that is what we said when we were giving the Taliban and Al Qaeda weapons in the 80's to fight Russians. 

Ah the cycle keeps repeating itself.

Both Sunni & Shia muslims hate Israel.  Given that the majority of middle eastern countries that surround Israel is mostly Sunni-based, doesn't it make sense to keep the Sunni faction's eyes on Iran?

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8 minutes ago, Jalapeno said:

Ah the cycle keeps repeating itself.

Both Sunni & Shia muslims hate Israel.  Given that the majority of middle eastern countries that surround Israel is mostly Sunni-based, doesn't it make sense to keep the Sunni faction's eyes on Iran?

You write the most impenetrable garbage in your posts.  WTF does your first clause have to do with your second here?

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