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Tulsa Guy

Pistols Firing: The Big 12 may want an expanded playoff

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43 minutes ago, RSF said:

Wrong again.  Rose Bowl paid 6.5 million per team.  The Fiesta Bowl that year also paid 3 million per team, the Cotton Bowl 3.1, the Orange Bowl 4.2, the Sugar 4.15.

 

 

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-12-01-sp-1411-story.html

https://www.nytimes.com/1993/12/31/sports/college-football-after-nine-new-year-s-day-games-will-there-be-one-champion-two.html

I cannot find a link with the TV money for the first SEC game and was relying on my memory for the $3M.  Anyway, SEC expanding to 12 has led to today's crazy football world where TV money is everything.  And that, in turn, set off the expansion craze.  The bigger the TV audience, the bigger are the conference's TV money.

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1 hour ago, FresnoFacts said:

Good reminder. The problem was the WAC went past 12 to 16 by adding Tulsa, Rice, etc.

The WAC-10 should have only added UNLV and TCU in 1996 and stopped at 12.

 

Yeah, the WAC 16 was too much.  But honestly, I'm not sure in mid 1990's that a very mediocre TCU would have the 12 team cut.  And its certainly why TCU didnt make the initial MWC cut.  It wasnt until 1997 that things bottomed out and the reversal of fortune began.  Even after the 1998 season when TCU squeaked its way into the Sun Bowl (helped, ironically, by the coming WAC/MWC split) it was impossible to foresee how badass TCU would become.

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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57 minutes ago, RSF said:

Wrong again.  Rose Bowl paid 6.5 million per team.  The Fiesta Bowl that year also paid 3 million per team, the Cotton Bowl 3.1, the Orange Bowl 4.2, the Sugar 4.15.

 

 

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-12-01-sp-1411-story.html

https://www.nytimes.com/1993/12/31/sports/college-football-after-nine-new-year-s-day-games-will-there-be-one-champion-two.html

Good links to bowl payouts.  But unless we can find a link with the first SEC bowl payout, we cannot compare the Rose BOwl payout versus SEC Championship game payout.  The bowl payout figures in your links I think include other monies than just TV, for example, money from ticket sales and corporate sponsorships.  My reference is to TV money only.  This is what I remember from the Daily Oklahoman.  For example, Oklahoma U earns $6M from ticket sales for a home football game (which includes required donations to buy season tickets).

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10 minutes ago, RSF said:

Yeah, the WAC 16 was too much.  But honestly, I'm not sure in mid 1990's that TCU would have made that cut.  And its certainly why TCU didnt make the initial MWC cut.  It wasnt until 1997 that things bottomed out and the reversal of fortune began.  Even after the 1998 season when TCU squeaked its way into the Sun Bowl (helped, ironically, by the coming WAC/MWC split) it was impossible to foresee how badass TCU would become.

The gossip back then was that TCU/Rice/SMU wanted to be a package deal to any conference that took any of them. Supposedly the WAC decided to take those 3 plus Houston. But Houston declined so Tulsa was #16 to get the other 3 for a Texas based pod.

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5 minutes ago, RSF said:

But honestly, I'm not sure in mid 1990's that TCU would have made that cut.

Not a chance.  Our football brand at that time was abysmal.  But we would have ended up in the then-new C-USA as we ultimately did 5 years later and could have been positioned for a similar historical trend.  But it goes to show that the answer to all of these questions is to upgrade one's football performance.  If Tulsa wants to improve its status, play better football.  If the AAC wants to attain P6 status, play better football.  If the MWC schools want to position themselves better for future realignment scenarios, play better football.  If BYU wants to make it to a P5 conference, play better football.  If TCU wants to avoid being relegated for the umpteenth time, play good football.  It's that simple.

I favor an 8-team CFP because I think it would give the Frogs a far better chance of making it than we had in 2014.  I don't think though that  the Big 12 will ever favor it unless and until the SEC and the Big 10 also favor it and it would clearly yield more money.  The current system is more like an Invitational which automatically favors bluebloods and the decision-makers will always find a reason to leave the TCU's out if they can.  And any MWC school too.

The Gang of 5 thang was 21 years ago.  Yeah, at the time, it seemed bad, but looking back, it wasn't even close to the worst realignment relegation that's ever happened to the Frogs.  And it's maybe not even in the Top 10.

 

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10 minutes ago, Tulsa Guy said:

Good links to bowl payouts.  But unless we can find a link with the first SEC bowl payout, we cannot compare the Rose BOwl payout versus SEC Championship game payout.

That's not my problem.  You're the one making specious, inaccurate and flat out wrong assertions with nothing to back it up..

 

 

7 minutes ago, FresnoFacts said:

The gossip back then was that TCU/Rice/SMU wanted to be a package deal to any conference that took any of them. Supposedly the WAC decided to take those 3 plus Houston. But Houston declined so Tulsa was #16 to get the other 3 for a Texas based pod.

Basically.  TCU was not yet in 'get off your ass and do something' mode, and wanted to stick to the familiar.  That came after we went 1-10 in 1997.  that's when the Adminstration started shaking the money tree and the deep pocketed alums started responding.  Above the table, this time.  :P

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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1 minute ago, FresnoFacts said:

The gossip back then was that TCU/Rice/SMU wanted to be a package deal to any conference that took any of them. Supposedly the WAC decided to take those 3 plus Houston. But Houston declined so Tulsa was #16 to get the other 3 for a Texas based pod.

Winning football certainly turns on the TV sets.  But recognizing the TV audience, B1G invited Rutgers....and also Maryland.  Neither school is exactly a stellar football program but they do turn on the TV sets. 

Darn you Houston!  Tulsa was involved with the formation of a new conference prior to the WAC-16 invitation which became CUSA.  But all's well that ends well.

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3 minutes ago, Jared said:

Not a chance.  Our football brand at that time was abysmal.  But we would have ended up in the then-new C-USA as we ultimately did 5 years later and could have been positioned for a similar historical trend.  But it goes to show that the answer to all of these questions is to upgrade one's football performance.  If Tulsa wants to improve its status, play better football.  If the AAC wants to attain P6 status, play better football.  If the MWC schools want to position themselves better for future realignment scenarios, play better football.  If BYU wants to make it to a P5 conference, play better football.  If TCU wants to avoid being relegated for the umpteenth time, play good football.  It's that simple.

I favor an 8-team CFP because I think it would give the Frogs a far better chance of making it than we had in 2014.  I don't think though that  the Big 12 will ever favor it unless and until the SEC and the Big 10 also favor it and it would clearly yield more money.  The current system is more like an Invitational which automatically favors bluebloods and the decision-makers will always find a reason to leave the TCU's out if they can.  And any MWC school too.

The Gang of 5 thang was 21 years ago.  Yeah, at the time, it seemed bad, but looking back, appenit wasn't even close to the worst realignment relegation that's ever hed to the Frogs.  And it's maybe not even in the Top 10.

 

There is nothing in your post that I would disagree with.  But TCU made the hire of the century with Gary Patterson and it was he who took TCU to Big 12 and P5 promised land.  TCU made a football coaching hire equivalent to Notre Dame hiring Knute Rockne.

For Tulsa, it all worked out and, looking back, the WAC-16 split could be called a blessing in disguise although it put Tulsa's football program at jeopardy at the time. 

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8 minutes ago, RSF said:

That's not my problem.  You're the one making specious, inaccurate and flat out wrong assertions with nothing to back it up..

So you cannot split the tv money separately out of the bowls?  Your assertions have nothing to back it up then.

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2 minutes ago, Tulsa Guy said:

There is nothing in your post that I would disagree with.  But TCU made the hire of the century with Gary Patterson and it was he who took TCU to Big 12 and P5 promised land.  TCU made a football coaching hire equivalent to small Catholic Notre Dame hiring Knute Rockne.  Notre Dame had previously been denied admission to B1G.

For Tulsa, it all worked out and, looking back, the WAC-16 split could be called a blessing in disguise although it put Tulsa's football program at jeopardy at the time. 

 

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3 hours ago, Tulsa Guy said:

MWC fans should be angry with the PAC.  When the PAC 12 invited the four Big 12 schools, they were turned down.  So PAC then invited Colorado and Utah separately and this got BYU to pull out of MWC and go independent.  So the PAC invitation to B12 cost the MWC two schools, Utah and BYU.

Actually CU was not a backup plan. They were a part of the original invite that went out to CU and the Big 12 south minus Baylor.  

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2 hours ago, FresnoFacts said:

Good reminder. The problem was the WAC went past 12 to 16 by adding Tulsa, Rice, etc.

The WAC-10 should have only added UNLV and TCU in 1996 and stopped at 12.

That means the breakup was Tulsa's fault.

A 12-team WAC with those schools would have been outstanding at that point in time. 

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1 hour ago, Joe from WY said:

A 12-team WAC with those schools would have been outstanding at that point in time. 

MWC's problems are deep.  Oklahoma, with 4 million people, is the smallest state in the AAC geography.  But Oklahoma  would be the 3rd largest state in the MWC behind California and Colorado.  SEC and B1G are at 14 teams.  ACC is at 14 teams plus Notre Dame.  PAC-12 invited 4 Big 12 teams and would have been 16 teams if the invitation was accepted.  So it is very difficult to say that 16 teams were too many.  When you have a conference with states like Wyoming with 500,000 people, that conference is not going to have a TV audience of any substance.

With hindsight, Tulsa and the Texas schools were being hurt badly by the WAC-16 as these four schools were being taken out of the heavily populated areas into an area featuring low populations and late night starts which are TV killers.  Just look at Boise State's dismal tv ratings and that pretty much sums up MWC's primary issue, the lack of a TV audience.

The claim that Tulsa and the Texas schools hurt the WAC-16 is really the opposite.  The MWC states, with their low populations and late TV starts, were hurting Tulsa and the Texas schools much more.

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46 minutes ago, Did I hear a WOOSH? said:

Of course the big 12 wants an expanded playoff.  Every conference does.  Bigger playoff = more money and more chances for your school to get in, whether its a two-loss Alabama, a one-loss Stanford, or an undefeated UCF or Western Michigan.

More TV money, more chances for your school to get in.  Its that simple.

The concept of 4 teams for the National Playoff was doomed from the start. 

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26 minutes ago, Tulsa Guy said:

 

With hindsight, Tulsa and the Texas schools were being hurt badly by the WAC-16 as these four schools were being taken out of the heavily populated areas into an area featuring low populations and late night starts which are TV killers. 

The claim that Tulsa and the Texas schools hurt the WAC-16 is really the opposite.  The MWC states, with their low populations and late TV starts, were hurting Tulsa and the Texas schools much more.

Funny, we only had a couple late games in all of our years in the WAC and MWC.  And one of those was in Hawaii.  Didnt seem to hurt us.

 

And yes, the eastern schools were a detriment to the conference.  It was too unwieldy and on the field mediocrity would have been an upgrade.  Which is why we did something about it.  Sorry if you cant handle that.

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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6 hours ago, Tulsa Guy said:

All the conferences were expanding at the time of the Denver Airport meeting driven by SEC going to 12 and establishing a conference championship game that paid out more than the Rose Bowl, the highest paying bowl at that time.  Every conference realized they had to expand their TV audience except one conference, the soon to be MWC.  The PAC was sitting next door with 10 teams needing two more teams to go to 12.  There in that Denver Airport room sat Utah U and BYU.  I cannot comprehend that the Presidents of CSU, WY, and AFA could did not grasp the situation at the time.  Did CSU, WY, and AFA really believe that Utah U and BYU were going to be satisfied in the MWC?

It’s pretty much known, but kept super secret around here, that Utah being in the same quadrant as Tulsa would’ve been the kill shot to keep them from jumping to the Pac 12.  Damn Denver Airport meeting and those guys trying to keep traditional rivalries intact. I mean we could’ve been cheering for a +++++ing tv network this whole time instead of our alma mater. 

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38 minutes ago, woo pig sooie said:

Access seed my Arkansas ***! You want P5 money play a P5 schedule. Until the you will get nothing and like it

You got bitch slapped by North Texas.

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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