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G5 financial problems, UConn and the G5

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https://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/mike-bianchi-commentary/os-sp-ucf-uconn-usf-aac-football-spending-20190703-6e5oco3egbcq7mz2celrengmba-story.html

 

A very incisive article by Mike Bianchi on G5 funding and how it relates to UConn and the G5 as a whole.

If what he says is probable then G5 leagues like the MWC, AAC and the 3 dwarfs (MAC, CUSA, SB) may require massive financial adjustments or the leagues may need to consolidate and establish financial limit.

Express your opinion.

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Hashed and rehashed ad nauseum here. Simple answer is creation of best of the rest conference which if properly composed might have a chance to gain power status.

Everybody else is doomed to eventual minor-major status. Even that will probably be temporary only.

Boom goes the dynamite.

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15 minutes ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

Hashed and rehashed ad nauseum here. Simple answer is creation of best of the rest conference which if properly composed might have a chance to gain power status.

Everybody else is doomed to eventual minor-major status. Even that will probably be temporary only.

THink it's going to come to that point in some fashion - One major two or four division G5 conference where one team gets into the final bowl party - Of course to do this it's going to mean the MAC, Sunbelt & CUSA are basically left for dead along with some of the MWC & AAC merging into this new super G5 - It's going to be worse for more G5's if the B12 gets absorbed and has some left over's that will combine with the better options of the MWC & AAC to create a new entity, that for the most part will be a second class citizen conference when against the new P4 conferences 

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I think the P5 will weed out who among them doesn't want to compete and those schools will drop down to the newly created G5/Top tier FCS league.  I don't know if any G5 teams can move up at this point.  I know few if any teams that are P5 will want to do that, but some may be forced by their financial situation.  

I hate to say it, but the gap between P5 and G5 is greater than ever.  I just don't see how a lot of the athletic programs can make it work with the current funding levels.  Even some P5s are in serious financial trouble and look at the money they get.  

Maybe they can figure out a way to do it just for football or something.  I don't know.  This just doesn't feel sustainable for a lot of G5s and like I have written about before, where do you draw the lines with public funding, student fees, etc. 

I don't know if a Best of the Rest solves anything.  Maybe one or two schools could move up from it, but most won't.  I feel like the Big 12 not finding any schools to move the needle the last go around was a bad sign for any non P5 school.  

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35 minutes ago, dudleyDgroot said:

That will be the eventual demise of College Athletics as we know it....I will have no desire to contually watch Alabama play Auburn and LSU.....

I rarely watch P5 games. I watch the MWC, some AAC and a few MACsunbeltPatriot games.

Watching AAA pro teams doesn't hold my interest.

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Over a short period from 1979 to 1984 the number of D-1 teams went from 140 to 110. A big change in that time was that the Ivy, Southland, and Southern conferences were forced to drop down due to seating capacity and attendance requirements. 

My guess is that this type of rearranging will occur again and about 30 schools from the G5 drop down to FCS. Many believed that the MAC would be forced to follow the Ivy League to 1-aa back in 1981. They’ve been hanging on for the last few decades but it just seems like a matter of time until their eventual demotion. https://www.nytimes.com/1981/12/05/sports/ivy-league-is-forced-to-lose-major-team-football-status.html

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1 hour ago, Wyobraska said:

 

I don't know if a Best of the Rest solves anything.  Maybe one or two schools could move up from it, but most won't.  I feel like the Big 12 not finding any schools to move the needle the last go around was a bad sign for any non P5 school.  

Agree here - Any "best of the rest" will still be seen as tossing a bone to the have-nots as an appeasement at best even though the reality is that the have-nots just took another major hit to any hope of equal footing..........and eventually the G5 will become a lower division or be left behind when the powers move to create a super level of football schools & conferences 

Still think that 4 power conferences/divisions could emerge with 4 conference/division champions making a 4 team semi final, then a final between the two winners

Conferences could just be the new "divisions" so there would be a PAC.....SEC......B10......ACC division ...............that's an easy setup with easy 4 team playoff & two team championship game 

 

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26 minutes ago, SDSUfan said:

I rarely watch P5 games. I watch the MWC, some AAC and a few MACsunbeltPatriot games.

Watching AAA pro teams doesn't hold my interest.

I;m about the same - I really only watch MWC games first & foremost ..........then some Big Sky, Pac12 & maybe once in a while a B12 game..........Can't get into the SEC, ACC or much else out there 

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What the article so nicely ignores is that UCF, et al, are already in the same financial boat as UConn.  All subsidize their athletic depts in one or more ways to shocking levels - student fees, direct or indirect school support, state money among them.  UConn is just the most egregious in terms of total dollars.  But others arent that far behind.  So the real question is 'how long and how much are they willing to put up with?'.

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This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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10 hours ago, UNLV2001 said:

Agree here - Any "best of the rest" will still be seen as tossing a bone to the have-nots as an appeasement at best even though the reality is that the have-nots just took another major hit to any hope of equal footing..........and eventually the G5 will become a lower division or be left behind when the powers move to create a super level of football schools & conferences 

Still think that 4 power conferences/divisions could emerge with 4 conference/division champions making a 4 team semi final, then a final between the two winners

Conferences could just be the new "divisions" so there would be a PAC.....SEC......B10......ACC division ...............that's an easy setup with easy 4 team playoff & two team championship game 

 

4 P5 conferences with 16 teams.  64 total teams, each conference has a championship.  4 team playoff.  G5 has 65-70 teams with 4-5 conferences, same thing.  4 teams make a playoff.  The money between P5 and G5 does not make for a competitive field for FBS long term.  It's always been that way, but has gotten worse with the huge ESPN type agreements with conferences.  I give it 10 more years max where you see 130+ teams at the same level.

Basketball is a completely different story and requires much less resources.  That's why a school with an enrollment with a few thousand students can compete with the best programs in the nation without going into massive debt.  

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23 minutes ago, alum93 said:

4 P5 conferences with 16 teams.  64 total teams, each conference has a championship. 

Hear it a lot, even believed it at one time.  What I never hear is how you get the pieces in place in a way that even remotely works.  You currently have 65 P5 schools (including ND).

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This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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36 minutes ago, RSF said:

Hear it a lot, even believed it at one time.  What I never hear is how you get the pieces in place in a way that even remotely works.  You currently have 65 P5 schools (including ND).

64 teams plus Notre Dame.  The landscape has included "plus Notre Dame" for many years.  I think it is easy to make an argument that a school like Kansas (or fill in the blank on a similar school) should not be included in a P5 football conversation.  Recall that when it looked like the B12 was about to collapse, every school had a conference home except for Kansas.  A blue blood basketball program had no home because their FB team stunk.

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10 minutes ago, PojoPops said:

64 teams plus Notre Dame.  The landscape has included "plus Notre Dame" for many years.  I think it is easy to make an argument that a school like Kansas (or fill in the blank on a similar school) should not be included in a P5 football conversation.  Recall that when it looked like the B12 was about to collapse, every school had a conference home except for Kansas.  A blue blood basketball program had no home because their FB team stunk.

Repeated exactly what I said, then doesnt answer the how. Dropping 1 (or more) school isnt the issue.  It's one issue, but not THE issue.  And no, every school did not have a home.

 

 

16x4 is a nice, neat arrangement.  Getting to 4 conferences with 16 each....not so much.

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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19 minutes ago, RSF said:

Repeated exactly what I said, then doesnt answer the how. Dropping 1 (or more) school isnt the issue.  It's one issue, but not THE issue.  And no, every school did not have a home.

 

 

16x4 is a nice, neat arrangement.  Getting to 4 conferences with 16 each....not so much.

Are you trying to say from a competitive standpoint that it wouldn't be fair to teams in say the SEC compared to the Pac 12 so you want a more balanced approach to the conferences?

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9 minutes ago, Wyobraska said:

Are you trying to say from a competitive standpoint that it wouldn't be fair to teams in say the SEC compared to the Pac 12 so you want a more balanced approach to the conferences?

What I'm saying is to move the schools as they currently exist from Point A to Point B in order to get to 4x16 is not only a logistical nightmare but would require ignoring several practical realities - starting with the Big 10 and SEC would only be interested in expanding with certain schools, some of which are not legally available for another 20 odd years.  SEC, for instance, doesnt need/want UT (who make more than anybody in their current situation), but they may be the only one.  Everybody east of the Rockies has interest in different ACC schools, who arent available, while nobody really wants to join the Pac 12 anymore.  And the ACC will, like the Big East before them, wait in perpetuity for Notre Dame.

 

Simple, huh?

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This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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20 minutes ago, RSF said:

What I'm saying is to move the schools as they currently exist from Point A to Point B in order to get to 4x16 is not only a logistical nightmare but would require ignoring several practical realities - starting with the Big 10 and SEC would only be interested in expanding with certain schools, some of which are not legally available for another 20 odd years.  SEC, for instance, doesnt need/want UT (who make more than anybody in their current situation), but they may be the only one.  Everybody east of the Rockies has interest in different ACC schools, who arent available, while nobody really wants to join the Pac 12 anymore.  And the ACC will, like the Big East before them, wait in perpetuity for Notre Dame.

 

Simple, huh?

No one said it was simple and I never said I had the answers or the "how".  Just agreeing that on paper, a move like this appears to be logical.  And to say the SEC doesn't "want" UT is ridiculous.  Any conference would take UT at the drop of a hat.  They are just about the biggest fish in any pond.  Same for ND.

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Of course it's not simple.  Schools like Kansas provide value to the Big12, even if they have a shitty football program.  But there are at least a dozen schools in the P5 that have crappy football programs, and crappy BB programs.  So they offer little value. That won't change the fact that the bullshit about "tradition" et al will be the argument used to keep them part of the pig trough of revenue. 

In pro leagues it became apparent that unless caps and revenue sharing were implemented, there would be a revolving door of some teams who would have to bow out due to finances.  Only so many teams can be winners.  And many fan bases are fickle.  Not every fan base can support a team that hasn't sniffed winning a championship in forty plus years like the Toronto Maple Leafs or the Boston Red Socks had before they succeeded. But efforts to allow these teams to attain parity helps them through the tough times.  No such structure exits in CFB. 

One of the biggest problems with CFB is the tight clique mentality and the control over the process by schools that put their self interest paramount over the league.

The best thing division 1 can do is reform the entire league and dismiss the "tradition" nonsense.  Keep schools playing each other regionally so travel costs are contained, instead of some conferences with long distance travel necessary.  And above all, give equal access to all members of the league regarding the playoffs/championship and recruiting.  If that means cutting division 1A to 8 conferences from 10 plus indy's, so be it.  And eliminate the independents.  Join a conference or piss off. 

Studies have suggested if an 8 or more team playoff were instituted in Division 1A, it would make a ton of money.  So get away from 4 team BS and open it up to 8 conference champions or all conference champions plus some at large.  I'd say get away from the whole bowl debacle too, as it's a money grab for the bowl organizers from the schools, but they could still exist outside the playoffs, and potentially in the semis, and finals as they are now - though I'd love to see the costs involved each school had to pay out to attend these bowls.

Put caps on spending in areas, like coaching and other areas that create unfair advantages for rich schools over smaller ones. Limit pilfering coaches from other schools, as it sets programs back.  Reform the recruiting debacle and perhaps make it more like a draft, based on the student athlete's area of study they wish to pursue.  It's the only way to help bring about some form of parity among the schools.  When all schools in the league are on a level playing field, then it will grow the sport and fan interest.  Keep it where it is now and many will tune out. 

The media rights issues are the biggest stopgap.  Eventually it needs to revert back to a tier 1 media package league wide, with other tiers available to conference and schools.  But the only way to really shake it up is to force conferences to be chosen from league schools in the area instead of cherry picked schools as it is now.  So you could see a future conference with Florida State, Florida and UCF together.  Or ND, Ohio State and perhaps Eastern Michigan in the same conference.  The key would be how to determine division 1A status.  I think that might begin with stadium size.  30,000 minimum. Maybe 35K  Any school without a stadium of 35 k within a very specific time frame would not be considered for the restructure of 1A and 1.

Just spit-balling here, but change is needed and will be coming.

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8 conferences of 12 would be 96 schools.

Currently there are 88 schools using FB stadiums of 35K or higher. That would give 8 schools a certain length of time to get their stadiums up to 35K as a minimum requirement

Also means C-USA, MAC & SunBelt would have to revert back to FCS.  Along with a number of MWC schools unless they upgrade, pronto.

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BCS is to Football what Fox News is to Journalism

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