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youngredbullfan

Trump: Democratic Congresswomen should go back where they came from

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2 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

The problem is that the Democrats have called everyone and anyone racist so much lately, that it is sort of getting a Boy Who Cried Wolf effect.

 

The other side of that argument is that there were wolves stalking in the distance all along.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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1 minute ago, smltwnrckr said:

The other side of that argument is that there were wolves stalking in the distance all along.

Yeah...I'm referring to the almost daily news headline accusing some politician or celebrity of being a racist, or doing something racist.

When Trump makes a tweet that is clearly racist, it has less of a reaction, because we've all been bombarded by it..... 

I mean, just a few days ago, we all heard how Nancy Pelosi was racistly targeting the same politicians. 

 

But, maybe you are correct, and the racism is rampant and everyone is guilty.

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1 minute ago, smltwnrckr said:

I was responding to the inquiry about how we, as a voting populace, and more importantly as conservatives (assumed, as lawlor posted it), put a stop to the speech acts of a racist president. The answer to that question is to not vote for him. That is the place that conservatives are in, right now. And it's a place they put themselves in by voting for the dude, who everyone has known is a racist scumbag for years and years, because it's fun to own the libs. The more they continue to put the responsibility on the Democrats to make them vote for someone who is not a racist, the more they delay an ideological and political reckoning. 

It's interesting how much Trump supporters and Trump apologists like to talk about how elections have consequences. You know, because Obama said it and they got all mad about it when he said it. So now that the libs are mad, the right gets to say it. In your face!! Problem is, elections do have consequences and conservatives are seeing them now as well. The GOP through the primary process knowingly chose a petulant, sexist, racist man child to lead their party in the general election. In order to do so, they had to betray the ideological principles on which they claimed their party was build, as well as occasionally betray general principles of public decency and morality. Whether they did that to win, or they won in spite of that, is an unanswerable question. But they are now facing the consequences of that election - either continue supporting this guy or or allow your longstanding political and ideological enemies to take the reins of power and pick the scraps off of your faction's political corpse. Elections do have consequences, and that is a consequence that some of us (who would have supported a GOP candidate who actually cared about liberty and the constitution against Hilary) predicted.

Imagine where we would be right now if the GOP would have run a reasonable, principled candidate against Hilary - someone who actually cared about the principles that the GOP claimed were most important. Let's say they had lost that election despite having rallied around those principles. The GOP would almost certainly still have the house, would have made gains in 2018. They'd still have the Senate. And right now, they would be able to run someone who represents those supposed principles against a universally unlikable woman who had won despite being the least-liked presidential candidate in history. They'd have a shot to usher in 8 years of a GOP president (new blood) buttressed by a clear set of principles and strategies and by the predictable fatigue over 12 years of a Democrat presidency. And that's not even looking at where they would be had they won the election with said reasonable person.

 

Of course.  I couldn't understand how Trump won.  How did he win in the primary, where I think the GOP did have someone like you describe above; certainly someone more so than Trump.  How did Trump win in the general?  I've come to the conclusion that enough voters had enough of the establishment and were fine blowing it up.  An establishment that is dirty and ugly as shyt on the inside but full of BS decorum on the outside.

It's been remarkably fascinating to watch Trump play in this swamp.  I'm not saying he's intentional about it, because I don't want to believe he's smart enough to accomplish what he's accomplishing.  I don't like it, quite honestly.  It's extremely embarrassing to watch our elected officials, the press and much of America act like they're acting anymore.

I'm a firm believer of personal responsibility.  The only words and actions I can control are my own.  This board is a microcosm of America.  You see how some act on this board, right?  Who do you credit for that?  Trump?  Or them?  I think Trump is being extremely transparent.  He's bringing out the ugly transparency of others.  Others on capital hill, others across America and others on this board.  We've got congresswomen calling others in their own party racists now.  Holy shyt!  Not one, not two, but three, just in the last few weeks.  Is that Trumps fault?  Or theirs, individually?

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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45 minutes ago, alum93 said:

Yes, most people with common sense see the racism - even on this forum.

Not going to defend Trump, but.......  you can't help it.  Cheers.  There are millions and millions that love him, no doubt.  Fortunately, the country is split 50/50 and it will be another close election decided by a few thousand in 2 or 3 critical states, economy and all.

Calling him stupid is not good emough for you

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21 minutes ago, Orange said:

In addition to you not having any idea what the word "infers" means, at what point did Trump accuse AOC of being racist?  Or how are you assuming she was racist?  Can any of you old, white men respond to racism accusations without being irrational?

You've got "teams and shyt" stuck so far up your ass.  That's all.

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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8 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

Yeah...I'm referring to the almost daily news headline accusing some politician or celebrity of being a racist, or doing something racist.

When Trump makes a tweet that is clearly racist, it has less of a reaction, because we've all been bombarded by it..... 

I mean, just a few days ago, we all heard how Nancy Pelosi was racistly targeting the same politicians. 

 

But, maybe you are correct, and the racism is rampant and everyone is guilty.

I was one of the people who at least partially bought in (and continue to do so) to the narrative that the Trump phenomenon is a reaction to left-wing identity politics. But I have to say, it's hard to argue right now for what you are saying - that the Trump presidency isn't a culmination of deep-seeded racism seething under the surface in the rural and conservative parts of this country. I'm not saying it's the case, but it's pretty hard to argue against it. Most of those arguments are like yours - just words, without any real evidence. The people who argue that this is, and always has been, a logical result of right-wing racism have an increasing heap of evidence to back their argument. 

Just sayin'

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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21 minutes ago, Orange said:

None of the GOP's policies for our nation strike me as forward-thinking (who cares about the debt?  Spend more!  Who cares about the climate?  Next quarter's gas prices matter more!  Drill baby drill!)  So I don't know why their campaign strategies would be any different.

Cutting govt budgets is now racist.

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2 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

I was one of the people who at least partially bought in (and continue to do so) to the narrative that the Trump phenomenon is a reaction to left-wing identity politics. But I have to say, it's hard to argue right now for what you are saying - that the Trump presidency isn't a culmination of deep-seeded racism seething under the surface in the rural and conservative parts of this country. I'm not saying it's the case, but it's pretty hard to argue against it. Most of those arguments are like yours - just words, without any real evidence. The people who argue that this is, and always has been, a logical result of right-wing racism have an increasing heap of evidence to back their argument. 

Just sayin'

I guess I don't see all of the racism that you and others claim.  The shyt under Obama was much worse than what I've see these first 2 1/2 years of Trump.  And I don't blame Obama personally for his term.  He did say some racially charged shyt but again, our responses to it were our faults, not his.  And, I'm not going to  enter some stupid argument about whether Obama said some racially charged shyt, cause I'm sure some on this board will want to challenge that.  

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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5 minutes ago, pokebball said:

Of course.  I couldn't understand how Trump won.  How did he win in the primary, where I think the GOP did have someone like you describe above; certainly someone more so than Trump.  How did Trump win in the general?  I've come to the conclusion that enough voters had enough of the establishment and were fine blowing it up.  An establishment that is dirty and ugly as shyt on the inside but full of BS decorum on the outside.

It's been remarkably fascinating to watch Trump play in this swamp.  I'm not saying he's intentional about it, because I don't want to believe he's smart enough to accomplish what he's accomplishing.  I don't like it, quite honestly.  It's extremely embarrassing to watch our elected officials, the press and much of America act like they're acting anymore.

I'm a firm believer of personal responsibility.  The only words and actions I can control are my own.  This board is a microcosm of America.  You see how some act on this board, right?  Who do you credit for that?  Trump?  Or them?  I think Trump is being extremely transparent.  He's bringing out the ugly transparency of others.  Others on capital hill, others across America and others on this board.  We've got congresswomen calling others in their own party racists now.  Holy shyt!  Not one, not two, but three, just in the last few weeks.  Is that Trumps fault?  Or theirs, individually?

To your first point - that may be the case, but as I stated before, elections have consequences. People got their wish - they put the craziest mother-effer in the room into the oval office. Now they get to stay on this roller coaster ride, with their hands in the air, or they get to tell the carny at the lever that they'd like to get off now.

As for personal responsibility, I agree. And that responsibility includes taking responsibility for their own voting decisions. I see a lot of people, even those who don't like Trump but dislike the Democrats even more, skirting their own personal responsibility for what we are seeing right now. I actually don't blame Trump for most of this. In the words of Chris Rock, "That Tiger didn't go crazy! That tiger went tiger!" I blame the people who continue to either support him or continue to let him go Tiger in hopes that this whole mess will pass by with minimal foundation damage. But when people look at their ballots, they are ultimately asking themselves - does this person represent my values and will this person best carry those values with them as they legislate and/or govern? At the end of the day, those who vote for Trump are ultimately saying that is the guy who does that the best. This is the guy who best represents my values. So, if Trump does win a second term, I hope at the very least the people who have been shrugging their shoulders and skirting their own responsibility over the election of Trump and the embrace of Trumpism by the GOP will finally take responsibility for all of this. Then we can have the actual conversations we probably should be having right now as a country. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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Guest #1Stunner
27 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

I was one of the people who at least partially bought in (and continue to do so) to the narrative that the Trump phenomenon is a reaction to left-wing identity politics. But I have to say, it's hard to argue right now for what you are saying - that the Trump presidency isn't a culmination of deep-seeded racism seething under the surface in the rural and conservative parts of this country. I'm not saying it's the case, but it's pretty hard to argue against it. Most of those arguments are like yours - just words, without any real evidence. The people who argue that this is, and always has been, a logical result of right-wing racism have an increasing heap of evidence to back their argument. 

Just sayin'

I don't see the Trump Presidency as a expression of racism at all...

Trump's election is pretty easy to see, IMO.

 

Trump won because we won a few Midwest States on razor thin margins.   Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, etc...

Well, the white people (not necessarily racist) that voted for Trump in those States, simply voted for him because they hadn't recovered from the recession, 10 years earlier.   They were all unemployed, or underemployed.   Mostly high school grads that had lost jobs to China, or construction jobs what were now competing with lower wage Latin American workers who entered their market.

Trump promised them he'd fix it all.

The end.

 

The rest of the Republicans just voted for him because they like Republican policies more than Democratic ones (normal stuff like Supreme Court Justices, Abortion, lower taxes, etc)

 

In response to Trump winning, Democrats are so confounded why this guy won, that their only explanation is that it must be either Russia or Racism.

 

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34 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

The other side of that argument is that there were wolves stalking in the distance all along.

nonsense...PERIOD!

 

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”

-Richard Feynman

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."

-P.J. O’Rourke

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6 minutes ago, pokebball said:

I guess I don't see all of the racism that you and others claim.  The shyt under Obama was much worse than what I've see these first 2 1/2 years of Trump.  And I don't blame Obama personally for his term.  He did say some racially charged shyt but again, our responses to it were our faults, not his.  And, I'm not going to  enter some stupid argument about whether Obama said some racially charged shyt, cause I'm sure some on this board will want to challenge that.  

You use Obama as an example of how Trump isn't racist, but then say you don't want to turn this into a tit-for-tat discussion about whether anything Obama actually said comes close to what Trump is saying or doing. I don't want to have that conversation either, but I think it's weird to say the first then the other.

The fact is that he just tweeted something that is overtly racist, and no one with any power on the right seems to care. A lot of people are tacitly defending him by pointing out how bad the Democrats are. So when people on the left say Trump is a racist, and his supporters are all racist, while I don't necessarily agree universally, what am I supposed to say to counter that argument?

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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1 hour ago, smltwnrckr said:

Refuse to vote for him and actively encourage others to do the same.

Tacit support is still support. Fact is, it seems the right has a choice to make - support a stone-cold racist for judges and teams and shit, or face whatever nightmare they believe will come to pass if the Democrats are elected. 

One of the most endearing things about the last wave of conservatism in the GOP was its embrace of Goldwater's loss as a significant moment for the movement. Whether it was actually the case, or if it is some retroactive identity construction, that story was meant to say something about conservatives - that principles mattered most, and even a political loss at one point or another could turn into long-term success if that loss helped a group identify and organize around what really matters. The GOP seems to be in the absolute opposite place now. Winning in lieu of principles, instead of principles in lieu of winning. 

I mean, unless those principles actually are...

 

22 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

Vote third party and let the chips fall where they may.

Am I supposed to go banging on doors for the Democrats or what? I didn’t vote for Trump, I left the party the day he was nominated. If pointing out reality, that we don’t live in some Orwellian nightmare, that he’s a racist authoritarian idiot that doesn’t wield his power in racist authoritarian ways, that the structure of our system has proven to be much more durable than the people running around with their hair on fire seem to think and that says something they should pay attention to; if that’s tacit support then I’m sorry. I’m not sure what more you want me to do to serve “muh principles”.

I voted against Trump twice last time, that’s more than almost everyone here that hates him. I had 1000 anti-Trump screeds here and elsewhere. And you know what, I lost and life moved on. I’ll try again in 2024. But if you think I’m gonna start advocating for awful ideas, or run around like chicken little over things I don’t see as the coming of the 4th Reich, I can’t help you. Muh principles won’t allow it.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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6 minutes ago, SDSUfan said:

nonsense...PERIOD!

OK...

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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It's not "racist" to point out to these to America hating harpies that the door is open and if they are so miserable here, they can and perhaps should avail themselves of the opportunity to emigrate to another society more in line with their deeply held beliefs. It's good advice for anyone who has immigrated here and finds America intolerably racist.  Native born folks too!

 

 

Yet...they keep coming and once here don't leave.   Weird

 

 

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”

-Richard Feynman

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."

-P.J. O’Rourke

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1 minute ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

Am I supposed to go banging on doors for the Democrats or what? I didn’t vote for Trump, I left the party the day he was nominated. If pointing out reality, that we don’t live in some Orwellian nightmare, that he’s a racist authoritarian idiot that doesn’t wield his power in racist authoritarian ways, that the structure of our system has proven to be much more durable than the people running around with their hair on fire seem to think and that says something they should pay attention to; if that’s tacit support then I’m sorry. I’m not sure what more you want me to do to serve “muh principles”.

I voted against Trump twice last time, that’s more than almost everyone here that hates him. I had 1000 anti-Trump screeds here and elsewhere. And you know what, I lost and life moved on. I’ll try again in 2024. But if you think I’m gonna start advocating for awful ideas, or run around like chicken little over things I don’t see as the coming of the 4th Reich, I can’t help you. Muh principles won’t allow it.

Hey man, I know and believe your frustrations. I'm not calling you a Trump supporter, even. And I was really trying to echo the sentiments you already stated about voting for a third party. You're probably more tied up about a lot of this than many on the left are.

But here we are. Seems pretty clear that the country is going to have to make a decision between what is worse - racism or socialism. It is what it is. I'm not sure what the right is supposed to do about it. But they are the ones who are going to have to deal with this mess in one way or another.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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Guest #1Stunner
7 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

Hey man, I know and believe your frustrations. I'm not calling you a Trump supporter, even. And I was really trying to echo the sentiments you already stated about voting for a third party. You're probably more tied up about a lot of this than many on the left are.

But here we are. Seems pretty clear that the country is going to have to make a decision between what is worse - racism or socialism. It is what it is. I'm not sure what the right is supposed to do about it. But they are the ones who are going to have to deal with this mess in one way or another.

 

Only problem I have is when the charge of "Racism" isn't clearly defined.

I mean, I asked the question the other day on here, and a response was that white people are racist and wear boat shoes to weddings.   That's doesn't help....   Need to hear a specific explanation of what is racist.  Not a generalized charge of "white privilege".

 

If by Racist Laws vs Socialist Laws, I'd have to see what you are referring to.   Maybe the position that detaining and/or deporting undocumented immigrants is racist?  Is that the policy?

Other than that, I'd have to hear how the Republican Tax Policy, Health Care Policy, Trade Policy, etc = Racist.

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51 minutes ago, pokebball said:

Of course.  I couldn't understand how Trump won.  How did he win in the primary, where I think the GOP did have someone like you describe above; certainly someone more so than Trump.  How did Trump win in the general?  I've come to the conclusion that enough voters had enough of the establishment and were fine blowing it up.  An establishment that is dirty and ugly as shyt on the inside but full of BS decorum on the outside.

It's been remarkably fascinating to watch Trump play in this swamp.  I'm not saying he's intentional about it, because I don't want to believe he's smart enough to accomplish what he's accomplishing.  I don't like it, quite honestly.  It's extremely embarrassing to watch our elected officials, the press and much of America act like they're acting anymore.

I'm a firm believer of personal responsibility.  The only words and actions I can control are my own.  This board is a microcosm of America.  You see how some act on this board, right?  Who do you credit for that?  Trump?  Or them?  I think Trump is being extremely transparent.  He's bringing out the ugly transparency of others.  Others on capital hill, others across America and others on this board.  We've got congresswomen calling others in their own party racists now.  Holy shyt!  Not one, not two, but three, just in the last few weeks.  Is that Trumps fault?  Or theirs, individually?

Spare me this "blowing up the establishment" bullshit.

Trump was elected based off of nativism (a polite way of referring to racism). Period.  He started with the wall, the "rapists and criminals" line, and he's carried that football all the way down the field.  Immigration and nationalism is basically his one and only issue, and he's stoking the racists.  Nothing more, nothing less. 

And the GOP is now the party of racists, because NONE of the Republicans in Congress called him out on this the day he tweeted it.  It's now too late.   We know your party is cowardly.

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15 minutes ago, SDSUfan said:

It's not "racist" to point out to these to America hating harpies that the door is open and if they are so miserable here, they can and perhaps should avail themselves of the opportunity to emigrate to another society more in line with their deeply held beliefs. It's good advice for anyone who has immigrated here and finds America intolerably racist.  Native born folks too!

 

 

Yet...they keep coming and once here don't leave.   Weird

 

 

Just stop.

He's telling American-born congresswomen to "go back to your country".

Do you REALLY not get how that's racist?

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