Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

smltwnrckr

Evangelicals and the Trump Presidency

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

Everyone can also see the quotes you left out wherein you insult me first. Did you do that on purpose? Or do you just have a problem using the technology properly? 

Honest. LOL.

I can post it all again.  I think people are bored now, they can read it for themselves or the whole conversation I posted.  They can see all you had was post after post of personal insults without any substance.

It is all there, you know it and I know it.  That's all that matters to me.  As I know, that you know, that i owned you yet again and you had to co opt my arguments.  hA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

So what GOVERNMENT POLICY are you advocating that would be Christian?  Can you be specific?

According to @bluerules009, that would be any law government dreams up.  Death camps? I guess so, because if government makes it happen, than God ordained it.  That's also why blues is so supportive of all of our divinely ordained government bureaucracy and taxes.

But seriously, any real Christian would be welcoming and provide assistance where needed.  That's like the basic tenet of all of Jesus' teachings, isn't it? For a government policy, maybe worker visas for everyone who can come here and pays taxes?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

OK, but....

You didn't answer my question.

I've seen all kinds of statements that enforcing the border, and putting illegal immigrants in holding cells and deporting them isn't Christian (usually a criticism from non-religious people).

So what GOVERNMENT POLICY are you advocating that would be Christian?  Can you be specific?

At the risk of going back to the OP, the more relevant question might be why evangelicals have flagged immigration as a central issue to their political identity and how a Trumpian approach is consistent with the Christian faith. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

I read criticisms that enforcing the borders of the US is "not Christian".... 

So....that begs the question.  What is the Christian thing to do about the floods of migrants coming into the US?

Simply let all undocumented migrants enter the US without legally immigrating to the US???   Why do you believe that is a more Christian approach?  (I'm curious to hear your opinion). 

 

If it's simply an issue about having more holding cells and officers to deport undocumented migrants (to stop overcrowding), then I guess the most Christian thing is for our government to like quadruple ICE or something?   Would be less overcrowding?

And of course this begs the question.  Is the border situation a state issue or a church issue?

The World Needs More Cowboys!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, bsu_alum9 said:

Not just the LDS church either.  Muhammed married a 9 year old.  Brigham Young impregnated a 16 year old when he was in his late 40s.  Saint Timothy in the new testament says women should be silent and not allowed to teach or assume authority over a man.  The old testament basically codified women being slaves to men. In Scientology, Ron L Hubbard at age 35, married a 22 year old while still married to his first wife, who wrote, 

Then he traded her in for a third wife who was 21 when he was 41.   

Back in the day, everyone was doing this, including the churches

The World Needs More Cowboys!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, bluerules009 said:

So now you agree with me.  HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! 

This is +++++ing hilarious.  HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

You can't admit you were wrong earlier but now you steal my points.  HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

I was going to mention this but was pretty certain you'd catch it :) 

The World Needs More Cowboys!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, pokebball said:

I was going to mention this but was pretty certain you'd catch it :) 

Now you're just feeding the troll. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

OK, but....

You didn't answer my question.

I've seen all kinds of statements that enforcing the border, and putting illegal immigrants in holding cells and deporting them isn't Christian (usually a criticism from non-religious people).

So what GOVERNMENT POLICY are you advocating that would be Christian?  Can you be specific?

Is the separation of church and state Christian?

The World Needs More Cowboys!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, pokebball said:

And of course this begs the question.  Is the border situation a state issue or a church issue?

I don't think there is any question, it's a state issue. Churches function outside of a framework that has interest in national borders. Or at least they should.

But it's also clear that the state is acting in a way that is clearly un-Christian. Which is why it's weird that the Evangelicals are backing the policy wholeheartedly.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, pokebball said:

Back in the day, everyone was doing this, including the churches

Agreed.

But that was then, this is now and it's decades past time for the criminal justice system to come down hard on politically-connected men who pray on women. England has allowed members of the House of Lords to get away with that for decades and maybe that's OK there since Lords hasn't had any real power in my lifetime. However, America should be better than that and we can start by bringing Jeffrey Epstein, Bill Clinton and Donald Trump to justice.

Boom goes the dynamite.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

OK, but....

You didn't answer my question.

I've seen all kinds of statements that enforcing the border, and putting illegal immigrants in holding cells and deporting them isn't Christian (usually a criticism from non-religious people).

So what GOVERNMENT POLICY are you advocating that would be Christian?  Can you be specific?

I know you didn't ask me but.....................:P

 

I'm not against detaining those who enter the US illegally. However, the idea of treating them inhumanly in order to deter others from coming here strikes me as un christian like.

 

People, not a fan.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest #1Stunner
23 minutes ago, bsu_alum9 said:

According to @bluerules009, that would be any law government dreams up.  Death camps? I guess so, because if government makes it happen, than God ordained it.  That's also why blues is so supportive of all of our divinely ordained government bureaucracy and taxes.

But seriously, any real Christian would be welcoming and provide assistance where needed.  That's like the basic tenet of all of Jesus' teachings, isn't it? For a government policy, maybe worker visas for everyone who can come here and pays taxes?

 

22 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

At the risk of going back to the OP, the more relevant question might be why evangelicals have flagged immigration as a central issue to their political identity and how a Trumpian approach is consistent with the Christian faith. 

 

Yeah.... I know what the Evangies have done....  

But the Liberals have brought Christianity into the immigration debate as well ("That's not what Jesus would do!!!").   I mean, Buttagieg brought that exact line to the Democratic debate, and it was loudly applauded.

What I get frustrated with is WHAT SPECIFICS do the Democrats want the immigration policy to be that would be "Christian".   "Be welcoming and provide assistance" is not a specific plan.   What SPECIFIC policy do they want our border patrol to execute to be "Christian"?    

Why do Democrats dodge saying what they want done....  Democrats running for President are very vague on this, and only criticize the Trump approach.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, bluerules009 said:

Romans 13, he stated that everyone must “obey the laws of our government, because God has ordained the government for his purposes.”

Only the good governments right?  Clearly we can name governments, and individuals who lead them at different times (and i won't mention his name), that we wouldn't want to "obey"....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest #1Stunner
4 minutes ago, azgreg said:

I know you didn't ask me but.....................:P

 

I'm not against detaining those who enter the US illegally. However, the idea of treating them inhumanly in order to deter others from coming here strikes me as un christian like.

 

Please provide specifics.

You want them detained...for like how long?  Where?  What conditions?  (like in a Hotel, or in a Holding Cell?) 

Until what?   then what do you think should be done with them?   Where do you want them to go after their detention?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, bsu_alum9 said:

According to @bluerules009, that would be any law government dreams up.  Death camps? I guess so, because if government makes it happen, than God ordained it.  That's also why blues is so supportive of all of our divinely ordained government bureaucracy and taxes.

But seriously, any real Christian would be welcoming and provide assistance where needed.  That's like the basic tenet of all of Jesus' teachings, isn't it? For a government policy, maybe worker visas for everyone who can come here and pays taxes?

I just gave you a bible verse to prove that using the bible to argue is stupid.

I didn't write the bible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, smltwnrckr said:

It's worth clarifying that we're talking about a consistent, continued sycophant level support by evangelicals. They're arguably his most ardent supporters, apologists and defenders. So the people talking about binary choices, the worse of two evils, pragmatism, etc are confused, disingenuous or didn't read the source material in the op.

LOL, you’re not reading carefully enough to see it. I’ll copy and paste to help you out. It blows my mind that people aren’t understanding this. 

OK, we went through the lesser of two evils voting scenario. Now that the 2016 election is over and they got Trump, why would they remain so passionately loyal to him? They should be just fine with swapping Trump out with any normal GOP candidate right? Here’s your answer:

“But also very importantly, once the election is over, they wouldn’t just swap Trump with a generic moral Republican if they could. They very much love his passion and charisma and ability to excite people in a crowd (evangelicals love that shit), they love the way he fights the good fight on issues they strongly believe in like no other Republican has ever done with such passion fought so hard on not to mention with backbone like no other politician ever, they love his energy, and they are in the honesty on fulfilling campaign promises to be HUGE. What good is a ‘moral’ Mitt Romney in there if he flip flops on issues and/or doesn’t get anything done? No, they’re very much impressed with this man to further their agenda as much of a flawed man that he is. And it’s the only logical and prudent move that they have, as strange as it might be. 

 

kat.jpg

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

 

 

Yeah.... I know what the Evangies have done....  

But the Liberals have brought Christianity into the immigration debate as well ("That's not what Jesus would do!!!").   I mean, Buttagieg brought that exact line to the Democratic debate, and it was loudly applauded.

 What I get frustrated with is WHAT SPECIFICS do the Democrats want the immigration policy to be that would be "Christian".   "Be welcoming and provide assistance" is not a specific plan.   What SPECIFIC policy do they want our border patrol to execute to be "Christian"?    

 Why do Democrats dodge saying what they want done.... I Democrats running for President are very vague on this, and only criticize the Trump approach.

 

The Democrats are not a specific political movement/coalition based on making the government policies of the United States more Christian. I think that's a different conversation than the larger immigration one. Like I stated, this thread - or at least my interest in it - is about Evangelicals and their relationship to the Trump Presidency. Immigration is a big part of that. I know I can't control where it's going, but I just want to bring that back up.

If you're arguing that Democrats haven't done a lot to solve immigration problems, I don't think anyone would disagree with you. If you're arguing that the party out of power is criticizing the party in power without offering comprehensive solution, I don't think anyone would disagree with you. If you're arguing that Trump's policies are good because, well, at least he's doing something and the Democrats aren't, I think it's a dubious position to take. I felt the same way about Obamacare when it was passed.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Nevada Convert said:

LOL, you’re not reading carefully enough to see it. I’ll copy and paste to help you out. It blows my mind that people aren’t understanding this. 

OK, we went through the lesser of two evils voting scenario. Now that the 2016 election is over and they got Trump, why would they remain so passionately loyal to him? They should be just fine with swapping Trump out with any normal GOP candidate right? Here’s your answer:

“But also very importantly, once the election is over, they wouldn’t just swap Trump with a generic moral Republican if they could. They very much love his passion and charisma and ability to excite people in a crowd (evangelicals love that shit), they love the way he fights the good fight on issues they strongly believe in like no other Republican has ever done with such passion fought so hard on not to mention with backbone like no other politician ever, they love his energy, and they are in the honesty on fulfilling campaign promises to be HUGE. What good is a ‘moral’ Mitt Romney in there if he flip flops on issues and/or doesn’t get anything done? No, they’re very much impressed with this man to further their agenda as much of a flawed man that he is. And it’s the only logical and prudent move that they have, as strange as it might be. 

 

That doesn't deal with the fundamental problem that the things he is fighting for, and the way he is fighting, are counter to the supposed point of evangelical Christianity. There is one issue that he champions that is arguably an Christian issue - abortion. And it's clear that issue hinges on the courts, and is there a person in the world who would argue that Trump's court selections are uniquely good? If anything, the argument has been that they've been surprisingly good in that they are basically the people any other GOP president would choose. 

The question is not whether the evangelicals are selling out their values for political victories. The question is why, and what the long-term impacts will be for the movement itself. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...