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Tulsa Guy

Dallas Morning News on Big 12 Expansion

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On ‎6‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 2:23 PM, SalinasSpartan said:

Larry Scott probably fantasizes about Washington St. no longer being able to fund athletics at the P5 level. There are a handful of MWC schools that he would likely trade Wazzu for in a heartbeat. 

A handful? As in more than 1? Like who? 

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2 hours ago, Jalapeno said:

I'd be disappointed if the current Big 12 schools meshed as well as the old Big 8 schools did.

Fify...

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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1 hour ago, alum93 said:

I don't see a P5, especially out west, ever voluntarily moving to a G5 conference under any circumstance.  Washington State got as high as 10 last year i believe.  In the last 4 years they have won 9,8,9, and 11 games in 2018.  They have also gone bowling in 5 of the last 6 years.  

 

Who knew a pirate could coach football so well? The patch alone seems like a serious handicap.

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On 6/16/2019 at 3:55 PM, Cincy said:

Cue a BOR thread. 

Kansas

K/State

Iowa State

TCU

Texas Tech

Fresno State

Boise State

SUDS

Nevada

UNLV

Air Force

We need @FresnoFanatic to weigh in here. He always delivered with expansion scenarios.

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23 hours ago, East Coast Aztec said:

Kansas or Iowa State bring next to nothing to the Big Ten.

Iowa State yes, but not Kansas.

1. Unlike with ISU, there is no current B1G member in the state of Kansas, nor in Missouri for that matter.

2. Lawrence is only an hour drive to Kansas City, a metro area with two million people.

Boom goes the dynamite.

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21 hours ago, East Coast Aztec said:

That market was already accounted for by Texas, with OU overlapping.  TCU was the best program available at that time after Mizzou and Aggie left.

 

Don't misinterpret what I am saying, TCU is doing well, as is Utah.  But they aren't really pushing the conference forward like a USC or Texas can, hence they are more of a zero-sum addition.  Much better than goddamn Rutgers...

This ain't worth arguing over as I have no dog in this hunt... however UU brought an entire incremental Fan Base of approx 2M+ Utah & Mormon base of regular UU watching fans.  TCU's was maybe 250k incrementally.  The larger Value Added by each in their respective COnferences... competitive Excellence, national Rankings & Respect, and great Quality of Depth to each Conference.  Nobody can argue UU's value to the Pee12 when their support is wanning & their Big Dogs (USC, Stanford, UCLA) are dragging butt... nor TCU's VALUE-Add while UT's & Baylor's Fball has been  dragging butt in maniacal state of Texas Fball. 

Anyway, not sure why you're so interested in knocking UU & TCU's contributions to their respective P5 conferences???  Think SDSU coulda done more/better?

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3 hours ago, Jalapeno said:

I'd be surprised if the current Big 12 schools meshed as well as the old Big 8 schools did.

I think when you had Nebraska leave for Big 10 everyone started looking at themselves and their situations in the Big 12. Its no secret that Texas has created some enemies in the Big 12 with one of them being Oklahoma. To me I still think there is a greater chance for Texas to go independent in football than possibly moving to a new conference. But if networks come forward with money to tantalize another realignment situation I think we will see it, if they don't I think the conferences are stable for a bit except maybe minor moves. For example schools moving up to I-A football or moving down. 

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30 minutes ago, RAMification said:

This ain't worth arguing over as I have no dog in this hunt... however UU brought an entire incremental Fan Base of approx 2M+ Utah & Mormon base of regular UU watching fans.  TCU's was maybe 250k incrementally.  The larger Value Added by each in their respective COnferences... competitive Excellence, national Rankings & Respect, and great Quality of Depth to each Conference.  Nobody can argue UU's value to the Pee12 when their support is wanning & their Big Dogs (USC, Stanford, UCLA) are dragging butt... nor TCU's VALUE-Add while UT's & Baylor's Fball has been  dragging butt in maniacal state of Texas Fball. 

Anyway, not sure why you're so interested in knocking UU & TCU's contributions to their respective P5 conferences???  Think SDSU coulda done more/better?

I also think Utah was in the right place at the right time for the invite to the Pac-12.

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21 hours ago, UofMTigers said:

^ this is a good year to play @Ole Miss as they're beatable...hope you guys can pull out the W

I looked up what they did in 2018 to non P5 schools, all wins of course.  76-41 Southern Illinois, 38-17 Kent State, 70-21 Louisiana Monroe.  We play them late in the season when they are in the middle of SEC games, between  Auburn and LSU.  Hopefully the score isn't too bad.  Cash the check and enjoy the mid major games.  

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25 minutes ago, wolfpack1 said:

I think when you had Nebraska leave for Big 10 everyone started looking at themselves and their situations in the Big 12. Its no secret that Texas has created some enemies in the Big 12 with one of them being Oklahoma. To me I still think there is a greater chance for Texas to go independent in football than possibly moving to a new conference. But if networks come forward with money to tantalize another realignment situation I think we will see it, if they don't I think the conferences are stable for a bit except maybe minor moves. For example schools moving up to I-A football or moving down. 

Texas wasn't the only Big 12 school that didn't want equal revenue sharing.  The other Big 12 schools were Texas A&M, Oklahoma, and Nebraska.

57 minutes ago, RAMification said:

This ain't worth arguing over as I have no dog in this hunt... however UU brought an entire incremental Fan Base of approx 2M+ Utah & Mormon base of regular UU watching fans.  TCU's was maybe 250k incrementally.  The larger Value Added by each in their respective COnferences... competitive Excellence, national Rankings & Respect, and great Quality of Depth to each Conference.  Nobody can argue UU's value to the Pee12 when their support is wanning & their Big Dogs (USC, Stanford, UCLA) are dragging butt... nor TCU's VALUE-Add while UT's & Baylor's Fball has been  dragging butt in maniacal state of Texas Fball. 

 Anyway, not sure why you're so interested in knocking UU & TCU's contributions to their respective P5 conferences???  Think SDSU coulda done more/better?

If you combine the Wahsatch & Front Ranges of both Utah and Colorado, that duo has the highest number of population (CO 5.6M + UT 3.1M) behind just the LA schools & Bay Area ahead of Washington state & Dallas Metroplex.  If you throw in about another 150K people between those two states, they will pass the 9 county Bay Area's population and be #2 behind the LA area.  In terms of population, the Pac-12 did a solid job in that case but those TV revenue numbers are a different animal.

Colorado should have more than one P5 team if you look at states like Alabama, South Carolina, Iowa, Oklahoma, Kentucky, and Mississippi which Colorado has more population than each of those states and have more than one P5 team.  Utah at this point should have only one P5 team and the Utes have taken that spot.  That is why I believe it's only a matter of time before CSU is a P5 school.

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21 hours ago, wolfpack1 said:

However also remember wherever Oklahoma goes, Oklahoma St is going to follow.

Unlike the situation in just about all other states, Oklahoma U and Okla St U are joined at the hip and have a close relationship.  Whoever wants OU is also going to have to take OSU.  OSU handed OU all its negotiation powers to OU when the Big 12 was formed.  OSU did it a second time with the expansion talk of going from 10 to 12. OU always kept OSU appraised of the situation.  I am not an "insider."  Rather, all this was pubished in the Oklahoma media.  Whoever wants OU, they are going to have to take OSU too.  The current OSU President got his Bachelors from OSU and his law degree from OU.

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FWIW, the Longhorns have and will continue to oppose expansion and will not vote for any school whatsoever.  This info was published in the Daily Oklahoman.  (Sooner Nation officials leak like a sieve to Daily Oklahoman).  It takes an 8-2 vote to approve expansion and the B12 couldn't come up with 8 votes.  Although OU President Boren led the charge for expansion, many OU supporters were against expansion including OU's big gun who drives all academic and athletic fund raisers, Barry Switzer.

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43 minutes ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

Iowa State yes, but not Kansas.

1. Unlike with ISU, there is no current B1G member in the state of Kansas, nor in Missouri for that matter.

2. Lawrence is only an hour drive to Kansas City, a metro area with two million people.

Don’t forget the absolute worst, by a large margin, P5 FB program out there. MBB means exactly dick in this realignment/expansturbation world. And nobody is confusing or even comparing the KC metro area with DC or NYC (and KC is also competing for eyeballs with K-State and Mizzou). 

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20 minutes ago, Jalapeno said:

Texas wasn't the only Big 12 school that didn't want equal revenue sharing.  The other Big 12 schools were Texas A&M, Oklahoma, and Nebraska.

If you combine the Wahsatch & Front Ranges of both Utah and Colorado, that duo has the highest number of population (CO 5.6M + UT 3.1M) behind just the LA schools & Bay Area ahead of Washington state & Dallas Metroplex.  If you throw in about another 150K people between those two states, they will pass the 9 county Bay Area's population and be #2 behind the LA area.  In terms of population, the Pac-12 did a solid job in that case but those TV revenue numbers are a different animal.

Colorado should have more than one P5 team if you look at states like Alabama, South Carolina, Iowa, Oklahoma, Kentucky, and Mississippi which Colorado has more population than each of those states and have more than one P5 team.  Utah at this point should have only one P5 team and the Utes have taken that spot.  That is why I believe it's only a matter of time before CSU is a P5 school.

additionally Utah (1) and Colorado (5) are both top 5 in population growth. 

Estimates put Utah's population at 5.4 million in 2050 and Colorado at 8.5 million

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2 hours ago, RAMification said:

This ain't worth arguing over as I have no dog in this hunt... however UU brought an entire incremental Fan Base of approx 2M+ Utah & Mormon base of regular UU watching fans.  TCU's was maybe 250k incrementally.  The larger Value Added by each in their respective COnferences... competitive Excellence, national Rankings & Respect, and great Quality of Depth to each Conference.  Nobody can argue UU's value to the Pee12 when their support is wanning & their Big Dogs (USC, Stanford, UCLA) are dragging butt... nor TCU's VALUE-Add while UT's & Baylor's Fball has been  dragging butt in maniacal state of Texas Fball. 

Anyway, not sure why you're so interested in knocking UU & TCU's contributions to their respective P5 conferences???  Think SDSU coulda done more/better?

Don't  bother bringing up SDSU into the conversation.  It isn't in the conversation and school affiliation isn't a credential for opinion.  UU and TCU aren't getting knocked by me.  In fact I stated the opposite.  They have added a few eyeballs, a little bit of positive achievement in their conferences.  They also split a portion of the entire conference  pot.  And I don't think they have, as institutions, done anything to grow the per team pot by anything more than extra product.  They were the best options and I don't see them as a drag by any stretch, which is what I have already said.  But they aren't the needle movers by any stretch of the imagination when you look at the Texas', USC's or Oregon's.  TCU and similar Okie State getting the snub a couple years back is indicative of that. 

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Not sure what snub you are referring to, but whatever.  You did just give the reason why nobodys expanding, though.  Nobody out there grows the pie.  The pie is either already so big (B10/SEC) that even the biggest programs wont bring enough value, or there's no incentive for teams to move for what is at best a parallel move (B12/ACC/P12).  About the only school that might qualify is Texas - a school the SEC has no interest in and one the Big 10 would have all kinds of trouble fitting in for multiple reasons.

 

And any suggestion that basketball plays no role in any of this is ludicrous.  There's a reason its football/basketball/everything else, and there's a reason that KU's Tier 3 deal was comparable to OU's.

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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1 hour ago, alum93 said:

I looked up what they did in 2018 to non P5 schools, all wins of course.  76-41 Southern Illinois, 38-17 Kent State, 70-21 Louisiana Monroe.  We play them late in the season when they are in the middle of SEC games, between  Auburn and LSU.  Hopefully the score isn't too bad.  Cash the check and enjoy the mid major games.  

last I looked Memphis opened as a 7 point favorite against Ole Miss to open the season...I'm hoping we tan that hide 

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23 minutes ago, RSF said:

Not sure what snub you are referring to, but whatever.  You did just give the reason why nobodys expanding, though.  Nobody out there grows the pie.  The pie is either already so big (B10/SEC) that even the biggest programs wont bring enough value, or there's no incentive for teams to move for what is at best a parallel move (B12/ACC/P12).  About the only school that might qualify is Texas - a school the SEC has no interest in and one the Big 10 would have all kinds of trouble fitting in for multiple reasons.

 

And any suggestion that basketball plays no role in any of this is ludicrous.  There's a reason its football/basketball/everything else, and there's a reason that KU's Tier 3 deal was comparable to OU's.

I don't  believe KU's basketball is enough to increase the Big Ten media deal more than what they will get from the Big Ten, and their football is in the doldrums right now.  I really think most conferences would contract before expand.  Big 12 is the only one that could add, but they neither need to, nor is there a team that would be worth it available.

Big 12 has the right amount of teams imo.  I am not a fan of the 14 team conference, as it makes some long stretches not playing some teams in football.

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2 hours ago, wolfpack1 said:

I think when you had Nebraska leave for Big 10 everyone started looking at themselves and their situations in the Big 12. Its no secret that Texas has created some enemies in the Big 12 with one of them being Oklahoma. To me I still think there is a greater chance for Texas to go independent in football than possibly moving to a new conference. But if networks come forward with money to tantalize another realignment situation I think we will see it, if they don't I think the conferences are stable for a bit except maybe minor moves. For example schools moving up to I-A football or moving down. 

That or joining an all-football superconference also including USC, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Miami, Florida State, Clemson, Alabama, A&M, Florida, Georgia, LSU, Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State and a 16th school from among Tennessee, Wisconsin, etc. They could create two divisions which would be so strong that the winner of each would get an automatic bid to an 8-team playoff system. And of course, the broadcast income would be yuuuuge.

Boom goes the dynamite.

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1 minute ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

That or joining a football superconference also including USC, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Miami, Florida State, Clemson, Alabama, A&M, Florida, Georgia, LSU, Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State and a 16th school from among Tennessee, Wisconsin, etc. They could create two divisions which would be so strong that the winner of each would get an automatic bid to and 8-team playoff system. And of course, the broadcast income would be yuuuuge.

The problem with this is that half of those schools would then have losing records. I just don't see it ever happening for that reason. These schools would much rather always have 10 win seasons in their current conferences. 

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