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Alabama Abortion Ban

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8 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

Bullshit:

https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/pubs/psrh/full/3711005.pdf

I don’t read anywhere in their published study that the results are invalid because of the data.  This is a pro-abortion rights organization even.  No data is perfect, recognizing imperfections and downsides doesn’t automatically invalidate what can be gleaned from it.  You just don’t like that the results of their study show that the vast majority of abortions are for convenience.

I didn't say the vast majority of abortions aren't for convenience. I'm saying it's unclear what percentage of abortions after 20 weeks are for convenience. The study you posted is about abortions in general.

You shouldn't assume why I like or don't like something. I haven't even stated my stance on the issue, though you assume to know what it is.

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1 hour ago, renoskier said:

Please check ISP's: is @Rocket the "yin" to @Nevada Convert 's "yang"?

WTF are you talking about? I’m pro-choice you dope. Don’t you ever get tired of being wrong all the time?

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3 minutes ago, NMpackalum said:

Medically speaking, phrases like late term abortions, partial birth abortions aren't used. Any pregnancy that is terminated is considered a therapeutic abortion. Definitions are important. A miscarriage is a spontaneous or missed abortion. Most of these terms are political in nature. Any pregnancy loss under 20 weeks is considered an abortion. As for reporting, almost all statistics are self reported so therefore probably not very accurate. All I know is that 23 weeks is commonly used as a cutoff for viability outside the womb. In nearly 29 years of residency and group practice >15,000 pregnancies, I've never seen a situation where the life of the mother depended on a therapeutic abortion. I have seen in 2 situations where we induced a pregnancy early to provide chemotherapy early. 

Yes, it is obviously rare. But our OB has seen it a couple times. 

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8 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

I didn't say the vast majority of abortions aren't for convenience. I'm saying it's unclear what percentage of abortions after 20 weeks are for convenience. The study you posted is about abortions in general.

You shouldn't assume why I like or don't like something. I haven't even stated my stance on the issue, though you assume to know what it is.

It is, but if you bothered to read it (unlikely since you disregard it up front b/c you don’t like the conclusions from the pro-abortion rights organization study) you would know that it intentionally oversampled later timed abortions.  I posted another link previously on the board that focused on the late stage - if you want it search it yourself in the board search feature - and the conclusions are the same.  There are little to no health reasons to warrant a late stage abortion so they are primarily done out of convenience.  The data isn’t perfect but it’s overwhelmingly obvious that late stage abortions are primarily for convenience.  

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53 minutes ago, pokebball said:

So what do we do.  Kill babies or kill women?  I'm thinking there's got to be a better answer.

Why not both? That's what outlawing abortions does.

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7 minutes ago, tspoke said:

Why not both? That's what outlawing abortions does.

Abortions kill both as well.

Perhaps we should take the lessor of all life killed, using the limited choices you are giving me.

I'm guessing you don't want to consider that?

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6 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

Yes, it is obviously rare. But our OB has seen it a couple times. 

So you’re agreeing here on one hand that late stage abortions for health reasons are rare and then saying on the other that it’s unclear whether the vast majority of late stage abortions are for convenience? 

Well, if not for the rare health examples, what other non-convenience reasons are there for the late stage procedure?  You’re contradicting yourself.

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9 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

I didn't say the vast majority of abortions aren't for convenience. I'm saying it's unclear what percentage of abortions after 20 weeks are for convenience. The study you posted is about abortions in general.

You shouldn't assume why I like or don't like something. I haven't even stated my stance on the issue, though you assume to know what it is.

In fairness, you have credited me for saying a few things in this thread that I have never said.  I think there is a lot of jumping to meanings or intents on issues such as these.  I need to go back and reread my posts more than I do.  We all do.

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5 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

It is, but if you bothered to read it (unlikely since you disregard it up front b/c you don’t like the conclusions from the pro-abortion rights organization study) you would know that it intentionally oversampled later timed abortions.  I posted another link previously on the board that focused on the late stage - if you want it search it yourself in the board search feature - and the conclusions are the same.  There are little to no health reasons to warrant a late stage abortion so they are primarily done out of convenience.  The data isn’t perfect but it’s overwhelmingly obvious that late stage abortions are primarily for convenience.  

And their definition of later-timed abortions are.... how many weeks?

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26 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

  No data is perfect, recognizing imperfections and downsides doesn’t automatically invalidate what can be gleaned from it.  You just don’t like that the results of their study show that the vast majority of abortions are for convenience.


 

I'm going to file this one away for the next climate change debate.  Mind if I use it?

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13 minutes ago, NMpackalum said:

Medically speaking, phrases like late term abortions, partial birth abortions aren't used. Any pregnancy that is terminated is considered a therapeutic abortion. Definitions are important. A miscarriage is a spontaneous or missed abortion. Most of these terms are political in nature. Any pregnancy loss under 20 weeks is considered an abortion. As for reporting, almost all statistics are self reported so therefore probably not very accurate. All I know is that 23 weeks is commonly used as a cutoff for viability outside the womb. In nearly 29 years of residency and group practice >15,000 pregnancies, I've never seen a situation where the life of the mother depended on a therapeutic abortion. I have seen in 2 situations where we induced a pregnancy early to provide chemotherapy early. 

Thank you for reminding me and others of these things.  I know you've posted this numerous times and I appreciate your patience with us :) 

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14 minutes ago, pokebball said:

What fetal conditions are you referring to?

Are there any that would change your mind?

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5 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

So you’re arguing on one hand that late stage abortions for health reasons are rare and then saying on the other that it’s unclear whether the vast majority of late stage abortions are for convenience? 

Well, if not for the rare health examples, what other non-convenience reasons are there for the late stage procedure?  You’re contradicting yourself.

I asked this as well and haven't seen a response!

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3 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

And their definition of later-timed abortions are.... how many weeks?

You read it and tell me.  The data makes it overwhelmingly obvious that the vast majority of abortions are for convenience regardless of early/late stage.  Period.

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5 minutes ago, pokebball said:

Abortions kill both as well.

Perhaps we should take the lessor of the limited choices you are giving me.

I wasn't offering you any choices limited or otherwise. I simply stated

1 hour ago, tspoke said:

 

Abortion laws don't stop abortions, they kill women.

I was simply agree wit hsoup that abortions will still happen but will be unsafe. You presented the choice of woman or kids.

  • Facepalm 1

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4 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

So you’re agreeing here on one hand that late stage abortions for health reasons are rare and then saying on the other that it’s unclear whether the vast majority of late stage abortions are for convenience? 

Well, if not for the rare health examples, what other non-convenience reasons are there for the late stage procedure?  You’re contradicting yourself.

Abortions after 20 weeks are rare in general. I'm saying that your clarity on the matter is misguided. You should have a little more empathy for people who find themselves in that position making touch chocies. That's all.

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Just now, NorCalCoug said:

You read it and tell me.  The data makes it overwhelmingly obvious that the vast majority of abortions are for convenience regardless of early/late stage.  Period.

It's in there. It's quite a bit before 20 weeks and waaaay before viability. You're arguing about something I'm not denying. And again assuming my stance on abortion in general.

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1 minute ago, pokebball said:

I asked this as well and haven't seen a response!

There’s a reason for the non-response.

  • Like 1

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2 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

Are there any that would change your mind?

You referenced them and I'd like to know what you were referencing, specifically.  You want me to respond to something you stated without any specificity.

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3 minutes ago, tspoke said:

I wasn't offering you any choices limited or otherwise. I simply stated

I was simply agree wit hsoup that abortions will still happen but will be unsafe. You presented the choice of woman or kids.

Well I guess we're left with abortions kill more than allowing abortions.  That was quite simple.

  • Facepalm 1

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