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sebasour

Alabama Abortion Ban

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7 hours ago, smltwnrckr said:

I'd love an explanation of how my wanting you to clarify an unclear statement t makes me clueless.

My "dilemma" is that have no idea what to clarify as the statement is completely clear.

Your motivation is to avoid answering the question because you don't have one and can't defend your dumb statement.   So as always it matters not how clear i make it you will remain acting as if your ignorant which no surprise you are really really good at.

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4 hours ago, Broncomare said:

Honestly, how many men really care?  Usually, the woman has an abortion because there is no support from the "father".  

That is maybe the case at most 50% of the time.  Most of the time the man is never told.  The rest of the time the man has no choice.

He will be held responsible if the woman has the baby by the courts.  Yet he has no choice at any point in the situation.

4 hours ago, Broncomare said:

  I agree in the first trimester and the health of the mom or the viability of the baby after that.  There are a lot of reasons women get abortions and not all of them are for "convenience".   

 

 

At least 95% are for convenience.

 

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2 hours ago, Old_SD_Dude said:

Sure there could be lots of reasons, but regardless, the state of Alabama apparently doesn't prioritize fetuses until their Mother elects to abort one. Never fear, though, when it comes to Child Poverty rates the state skyrockets from last to 45th.

There likely is a correlation between poverty and infant mortality, but I don’t expect you would acknowledge that. 

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1 hour ago, NorCalCoug said:

Reminder, you are full of crap.  I read both studies.  This post demonstrates thar you haven’t read either one.  Folks can read for themselves without your dishonest interpretation and misrepresentation.

Study on Overall Abortions:

https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/pubs/psrh/full/3711005.pdf

Study on Late Stage:

https://www.wecareexperts.org/sites/default/files/articles/Late-term abortion health consequences.pdf

Guess what you won’t find in either one - some weird admission that their findings are somehow wrong or that they don’t provide a decent view of why women get abortions.  Limitations in data does NOT equate inability to glean learnings from it.  

Again, the first study is an overall study on total abortions and the closest thing to defining "late-term" is marking categories at more than 13 weeks and more than 16 weeks. The second link isn't a study but a fact sheet, which again refers to late-term as 16 weeks and references the The Guttmacher study but the footnote is the wrong study. Interestingly enough, the WeCare site that created your second link fact sheet also has an analysis of the Turnaway study that calls the Turnaway study "meaningless" because of its design flaws and claims it is a political attempt to downplay the suffering that abortions put women through. That same Turnaway study cited by Guttmacher's study on 20 weeks. For what it's worth.

The Guttmacher study on the reasons for 20-week abortion in 2013 and the Turnaway Study both left abortions after 20 weeks due to medical reasons out of their studies. Spokespeople for the Guttmacher have said multiple times (and also say it in the text of the study) that there's really not enough data to know what the actual percentage of women who have abortions at 20 weeks for medical reasons, and the architect of the Turnaway study has also stated that to be the case because those procedures happen in hospitals due to emergent circumstances and not by appointment in abortion clinics.

There's a decent fact check that does, indeed, show that there are abortions after 20 weeks for the reasons you like to call "convenience." So people who say that doesn't happen are, in fact, wrong. But the conclusions it draws stop way short of your conclusion that the vast majority of late-term abortions are done out of convenience. It basically says it's hard to say, and the data isn't really there.

https://www.factcheck.org/2015/09/clinton-off-on-late-term-abortions/

Though this goes back to the second part of that previous post of mine. You and I aren't really that far off on what we think of as acceptable and unacceptable. And yet, here we are. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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3 hours ago, smltwnrckr said:

Again, the first study is an overall study on total abortions and the closest thing to defining "late-term" is marking categories at more than 13 weeks and more than 16 weeks. The second link isn't a study but a fact sheet, which again refers to late-term as 16 weeks and references the The Guttmacher study but the footnote is the wrong study. Interestingly enough, the WeCare site that created your second link fact sheet also has an analysis of the Turnaway study that calls the Turnaway study "meaningless" because of its design flaws and claims it is a political attempt to downplay the suffering that abortions put women through. That same Turnaway study cited by Guttmacher's study on 20 weeks. For what it's worth.

The Guttmacher study on the reasons for 20-week abortion in 2013 and the Turnaway Study both left abortions after 20 weeks due to medical reasons out of their studies. Spokespeople for the Guttmacher have said multiple times (and also say it in the text of the study) that there's really not enough data to know what the actual percentage of women who have abortions at 20 weeks for medical reasons, and the architect of the Turnaway study has also stated that to be the case because those procedures happen in hospitals due to emergent circumstances and not by appointment in abortion clinics.

There's a decent fact check that does, indeed, show that there are abortions after 20 weeks for the reasons you like to call "convenience." So people who say that doesn't happen are, in fact, wrong. But the conclusions it draws stop way short of your conclusion that the vast majority of late-term abortions are done out of convenience. It basically says it's hard to say, and the data isn't really there.

https://www.factcheck.org/2015/09/clinton-off-on-late-term-abortions/

Though this goes back to the second part of that previous post of mine. You and I aren't really that far off on what we think of as acceptable and unacceptable. And yet, here we are. 

You continue to comment on things you don’t read or understand. The posted studies do not stop at 20 weeks - one oversamples on 16+ weeks and the other focuses exclusively on late term.  The facts are clear to everyone except you.  The majority of abortions regardless of when they take place are done for convenience.  Period.  There’s no reasonable way to refute that given the studies and statistics on the matter.

You are wrong.  

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7 hours ago, soupslam1 said:

There likely is a correlation between poverty and infant mortality, but I don’t expect you would acknowledge that. 

It only proves my point IMO. 

Thay Haif Said: Quhat Say Thay? Lat Thame Say

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8 hours ago, Old_SD_Dude said:

So ban guns along with abortions then?

Guns kill a 30K people a year and half of those want to die.

 

Abortions kill a million people a year.

 

When you reduce abortion deaths below gun deaths you still won't have a point.   As one protects our freedom as well as provides us a tool for many other uses and the other is just the actions of miserable murderers.

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9 hours ago, bluerules009 said:

Guns kill a 30K people a year and half of those want to die.

 

Abortions kill a million people a year.

 

When you reduce abortion deaths below gun deaths you still won't have a point.   As one protects our freedom as well as provides us a tool for many other uses and the other is just the actions of miserable murderers.

Abortion killed more children before 9am this morning than did any school shooting in history.

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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On 5/16/2019 at 9:50 AM, Joe from WY said:

Everyone knows they only try African dictators. So I should be OK. But then again, given the sheer amount of lives lost in the chicken choking and subsequent sock laundering, perhaps they may make an exception. 

In any case, I should be grabbing a duffel bag full of cash and a suitcase full of socks and heading for a remote Pacific island off the main island in Vanuatu. 

It's been real. 

LOL...whats your favorite sock color.?...or....maybe we shouldnt go there either.

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19 hours ago, NorCalCoug said:

You continue to comment on things you don’t read or understand. The posted studies do not stop at 20 weeks - one oversamples on 16+ weeks and the other focuses exclusively on late term.  The facts are clear to everyone except you.  The majority of abortions regardless of when they take place are done for convenience.  Period.  There’s no reasonable way to refute that given the studies and statistics on the matter.

You are wrong.  

You restated things I did't dispute, and then stated that I was wrong.

If you have a problem with the thing I'm actually arguing about, you should send an e-mail or give a call to Joerg Dreweke from the Guttmacher Institute and Diana Greene Foster who put together the Turnaway study who have both said what I'm saying. Go tell them they are wrong. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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7 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

You restated things I did't dispute, and then stated that I was wrong.

If you have a problem with the thing I'm actually arguing about, you should send an e-mail or give a call to Joerg Dreweke from the Guttmacher Institute and Diana Greene Foster who put together the Turnaway study who have both said what I'm saying. Go tell them they are wrong. 

Their study is posted.  You’re misrepresenting it or just plain lying.  No biggie, the link is there and folks can read and see for themselves. The vast majority of abortions no matter the stage are for convenience.  You can keep your head in the sand and think otherwise.

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3 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

Their study is posted.  You’re misrepresenting it or just plain lying.  No biggie, the link is there and folks can read and see for themselves. The vast majority of abortions no matter the stage are for convenience.  You can keep your head in the sand and think otherwise.

So is their own input on the information that is not in the studies. I agree - people should look for themselves and not listen to me, you or our dismissive comments about each other.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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13 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

So is their own input on the information that is not in the studies. I agree - people should look for themselves and not listen to me, you or our dismissive comments about each other.

Yes, organizations like the Guttmacher Institute publish studies and analyses they don’t believe in all the time.  The data, right?  Their findings are worthless to biased journalists like yourself when they don’t align to your twisted and out of touch belief system.

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1 minute ago, NorCalCoug said:

Yes, organizations like the Guttmacher Institute publish and share studies and analyses they don’t believe in all the time.

Not what I said, but whatever.

People should take a look for themselves. Though, interestingly, there's a fair amount of scholarship out there showing that won't move the needle one way or another either. So at a certain point, you and I are yelling into the abyss in an exercise to make ourselves feel better about our own positions. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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3 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

Not what I said, but whatever.

People should take a look for themselves. Though, interestingly, there's a fair amount of scholarship out there showing that won't move the needle one way or another either. So at a certain point, you and I are yelling into the abyss in an exercise to make ourselves feel better about our own positions. 

Except my position is supported by the published studies and yours is nonsensical and has no basis in reality.  Nowhere in the published and linked studies above will you find anything that suggests that the vast majority of abortions are committed for non-convenience reasons.  Quite the opposite.   

The reporting from the state of Florida tells the same story.  Guess they’re all wrong because you say so, right?

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