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Akkula

Impeachment

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3 minutes ago, Joe from WY said:

Definitely. Especially if losing the 2020 election is among the party's main goals. 

If more presidents were impeached for that reason, it wouldn't be such a big deal as to swing elections. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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Just now, smltwnrckr said:

If more presidents were impeached for that reason, it wouldn't be such a big deal as to swing elections. 

We might be at the point in history where impeachment becomes a more regular event.

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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3 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

If more presidents were impeached for that reason, it wouldn't be such a big deal as to swing elections. 

That's pretty naive thinking on your part. 

Using capricious reasons to throw a duly elected executive out of office repeatedly is going to result in more problems and increases in civil unrest, not some comfortably numb utopia. 

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Also, does someone want to explain to me again how impeaching Clinton was such a disaster for the GOP? 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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1 hour ago, #1Stunner said:

Look, I think we have to all at least agree that it needs to be a real crime.   

We shouldn't impeach someone because their lawyer (Trump's lawyer) said don't respond to a subpoena, and Trump followed his lawyer's advice.

There is no crime on that front.

 

I think the charity slush fund, you have a point.   I'm not sure if that is a crime, or a tax issue, though.

 In the United States, for example, impeachment at the federal level is limited to those who may have committed "Treason, Bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors[1]".[2]

The charge of high crimes and misdemeanors covers allegations of misconduct by officials, such as perjury of oath, abuse of authority, bribery, intimidation, misuse of assets, failure to supervise, dereliction of duty, unbecoming conduct, refusal to obey a lawful order, chronic intoxication, and tax evasion. Offenses by officials also include ordinary crimes, but perhaps with different standards of proof and punishment than for nonofficials, on the grounds that more is expected of officials by their oaths of office.

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4 minutes ago, Joe from WY said:

That's pretty naive thinking on your part. 

Using capricious reasons to throw a duly elected executive out of office repeatedly is going to result in more problems and increases in civil unrest, not some comfortably numb utopia. 

According to the conventional wisdom on this board, it's going to end up with fewer incumbent presidents getting voted out of office. So it sounds like a good ticket to political stability. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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1 minute ago, smltwnrckr said:

According to the conventional wisdom on this board, it's going to end up with fewer incumbent presidents getting voted out of office. So it sounds like a good ticket to political stability. 

In a year like this with a fractured field of communists as the opposition, it probably would help ensure re-election by firing up the GOP base and giving Trump more anti-establishment ammunition. In the long run, if every time someone who incenses people for whatever reason is elected president, this is used because the losers throw a years-long temper tantrum, it'll result in no faith in, and an ultimate breakdown in, our country's institutions. 

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9 minutes ago, Joe from WY said:

In a year like this with a fractured field of communists as the opposition, it probably would help ensure re-election by firing up the GOP base and giving Trump more anti-establishment ammunition. In the long run, if every time someone who incenses people for whatever reason is elected president, this is used because the losers throw a years-long temper tantrum, it'll result in no faith in, and an ultimate breakdown in, our country's institutions. 

Our country's institutions have all but deferred entirely to the White House first and the Supreme Court second over the past 20 years. If Congress throwing its dick around every once in a while to show everyone why they're supposed to be the boss leads to the fundamental breakdown of this country's institutions, then this was a failed experiment from the start and it should happen sooner than later.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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Just now, smltwnrckr said:

Our country's institutions have all but deferred entirely to the White House first and the Supreme Court second over the past 20 years. If Congress throwing its dick around every once in a while to show everyone why they're supposed to be the boss leads to the fundamental breakdown of this country's institutions, then this was a failed experiment from the start and it should happen sooner than later.

Damn. With logic like that no wonder journalists make what McDonald's workers do. 

I hope you get your way so I can laugh at you later on in November of next year when Trump gets re-elected. 

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1 hour ago, Aslowhiteguy said:

It's pretty cut and dry.  There was no obstruction.  Perhaps it was discussed, but that isn't a crime.  It  would be like you and I planning a bank robbery but never following through.  Talking about it is not a crime. 

I'm guessing this stuff will blow over soon and the dims will once again try to make a big deal out of the tax returns Trump is not required to make public, but the dims want to see anyway.   

The solution to the dims Trump problem is finding someone who can beat him.  There is no one in the current crop of 16 or so who can do it.  

It will be interesting to see who the party of diversity nominates.  I'm guessing an old, white guy. 

That's not a good analogy, I'm afraid.  

It would be better to say you, my superior and president of the U.S., told me to help you rob the bank and the only reason it didn't happen is because I sabotaged the plan. The bank did not get robbed but there was nefarious intent demonstrated. I suppose not a "crime" but naughty naughty. Then you told me to lie to investigators. More naughty. No positive way to spin that.  

"The charge of high crimes and misdemeanors covers allegations of misconduct by officials, such as perjury of oath, abuse of authority, bribery, intimidation, misuse of assets, failure to supervise, dereliction of duty, unbecoming conduct, refusal to obey a lawful order, chronic intoxication, and tax evasion. Offenses by officials also include ordinary crimes, but perhaps with different standards of proof and punishment than for nonofficials, on the grounds that more is expected of officials by their oaths of office."

 

 

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Just now, Joe from WY said:

Damn. With logic like that no wonder journalists make what McDonald's workers do. 

I hope you get your way so I can laugh at you later on in November of next year when Trump gets re-elected. 

For someone who claims to have a handle on my logic, you didn't do a very good job of grasping what it would mean for me to get my way in any of this. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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1 minute ago, toonkee said:

That's not a good analogy, I'm afraid.  

It would be better to say you, my superior and president of the U.S., told me to help you rob the bank and the only reason it didn't happen is because I sabotaged the plan. The bank did not get robbed but there was nefarious intent demonstrated. I suppose not a "crime" but naughty naughty. Then you told me to lie to investigators. More naughty. No positive way to spin that.  

"The charge of high crimes and misdemeanors covers allegations of misconduct by officials, such as perjury of oath, abuse of authority, bribery, intimidation, misuse of assets, failure to supervise, dereliction of duty, unbecoming conduct, refusal to obey a lawful order, chronic intoxication, and tax evasion. Offenses by officials also include ordinary crimes, but perhaps with different standards of proof and punishment than for nonofficials, on the grounds that more is expected of officials by their oaths of office."

 

 

The point is still valid.  Obstruction may have been discussed but it was never implemented.  

Time to move on to the next witch hunt. 

"Don't underestimate Joe Biden's ability to F@*k things up."

Barack Obama

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Just now, smltwnrckr said:

For someone who claims to have a handle on my logic, you didn't do a very good job of grasping what it would mean for me to get my way in any of this. 

Nah. You're right. All I really got from your ramblings is that there's a lot of nitrates in the Merced County water system. 

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22 hours ago, Joe from WY said:

Nah. You're right. All I really got from your ramblings is that there's a lot of nitrates in the Merced County water system. 

OK, cool dude. It was nice talking to you.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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What needs to be laughed at is what our two-party system has become.

Particularly at the national level, both Republican and Democrat leaders are more interested in getting elected than anything else and, as such, the great majority of elected officials vehemently support those of their own party because of a you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours system while simultaneously striving to do as little controversial legislating as possible in order not to piss off voters. If this country had a strong moderate third party, in order to stay in power the Repubs or Dems would have to build a coalition with members of that party and the country would be much better off.

Go ahead and call me naive if you like but unless and until something like that is tried, you can't prove me wrong.

Boom goes the dynamite.

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32 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

Also, does someone want to explain to me again how impeaching Clinton was such a disaster for the GOP? 

Killed us in the 98 midterms.  GOP had a very favorable map that year but came up snakeyes

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10 minutes ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

What needs to be laughed at is what our two-party system has become.

Particularly at the national level, both Republican and Democrat leaders are more interested in getting elected than anything else and, as such, the great majority of elected officials vehemently support those of their own party because of a you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours system while simultaneously striving to do as little controversial legislating as possible in order not to piss off voters. If this country had a strong moderate third party, in order to stay in power the Repubs or Dems would have to build a coalition with members of that party and the country would be much better off.

Go ahead and call me naive if you like but unless and until something like that is tried, you can't prove me wrong.

We elect all of them.  The boogie man is us.

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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