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Akkula

Impeachment

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2 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

I'll defer to a guy like Alan Dershowitz on this (he's a Democrat, by the way).

Trump might have wanted to see information illegally obtained by the Russians (like Hillary's emails), but that doesn't mean he is guilty of a crime.

Plus, he might have wanted to fire people overseeing the Russia investigation, that he thought were sympathetic to him, but is that a crime?   

 

 

I agree. George Will is lame and stupid, but Alan Dershowitz is a real ringer.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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6 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

You can't simply impeach someone because you don't like them.

If impeachment is the only legitimate way for a president to be held accountable for his actions in office, and impeachment is a political process, then this comment is literally false.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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1 minute ago, smltwnrckr said:

If impeachment is the only legitimate way for a president to be held accountable for his actions in office, and impeachment is a political process, then this comment is literally false.

Impeachment is always legitimate?

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Just now, pokebball said:

Impeachment is always legitimate?

If someone is impeached and and convicted, they are no longer president. I don't see how you get more legitimate than that.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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5 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

If impeachment is the only legitimate way for a president to be held accountable for his actions in office, and impeachment is a political process, then this comment is literally false.

Held accountable for what?  Simply that Trump is an asshole?   Is that enough?   Isn't that what elections are for?

High crimes and misdemeanors?

Bottom Line:

I'm not seeing any evidence that Trump has committed any high crimes or misdemeanors.   I look to an unbiased guy who is far smarter than me (Democrat Alan Dershowtiz) to see what his analysis is, and he keeps saying that there is no basis to impeach Donald Trump.

 

We can't, and don't, simply impeach someone because they tweet and act like a jackass.  Or that we don't like their Supreme Court nominees, and Tax Plans.....

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Just now, pokebball said:

Yes, but is it always legitimate? 

By its very nature, it is legitimate. If you don't believe an impeachment is legitimate, then you don't believe the constitution is legitimate. Simple as that.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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2 hours ago, Akkula said:

I just wonder what would happen if the Mueller Report had the name Obama or Hillary instead of Trump.  I have no doubt that impeachment proceedings would begun months or years ago.  The hypocrisy on here is absolutely stunning.

What would have happened if Bill Clinton would have been paying a porn star and had the national enquirer cover up this information days before the election?  What would happen if Obama was using his "charity" as a personal trust fund and became disbarred from a state from being associated with a charity?  What if Hillary had tried to block a merger as a way to punish media enemies?

We need to stop trying to reverse engineer things Mitch McConnell style whereby nothing actually gets voted on because the president won't sign.  The job of congress is to legislate and take action...not handicap the chances of success.  The house needs to do their job and the senators need to take a vote so the public knows where everyone stands on these crimes.  The process is as important as the end result.

The house needs to have a hearing and call Mueller and McGann and anyone else.  But they need to wrap it up by the end of the summer and take a vote one way or the other on impeachment.

You, @SleepingGiantsFan, and all the rest of the leftists would be arguing for the opposite position you are now.  just like you did when Hillary was caught mishandling classified information or Obama was caught lying about 9/11.

The only thing you care about is team.

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Just now, renoskier said:

Sure you can.

Don't confuse impeachment with Senate conviction.

I know how it works.

I'm operating on the assumption that the congress wouldn't impeach someone just to play games, and that they would only do so with the belief that there is a basis for conviction.

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2 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

By its very nature, it is legitimate. If you don't believe an impeachment is legitimate, then you don't believe the constitution is legitimate. Simple as that.

I agree on the technicalities of your argument.

The reality is if congress is removing presidents based on nothing but political bias our governments checks and balances are dead.  Our government is dead.

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3 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

By its very nature, it is legitimate. If you don't believe an impeachment is legitimate, then you don't believe the constitution is legitimate. Simple as that.

I guess I was talking about the process as much as I was any conclusion.

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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3 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

Held accountable for what?  Simply that Trump is an asshole?   Is that enough?   Isn't that what elections are for?

High crimes and misdemeanors?

Bottom Line:

I'm not seeing any evidence that Trump has committed any high crimes or misdemeanors.   I look to an unbiased guy who is far smarter than me (Democrat Alan Dershowtiz) to see what his analysis is, and he keeps saying that there is no basis to impeach Donald Trump.

 

We can't, and don't, simply impeach someone because they tweet and act like a jackass.  Or that we don't like their Supreme Court nominees, and Tax Plans.....

You and Alan Dershowtiz are not sitting congressmen. The fact of the matter is that the right number of sitting congressmen believe that the president should be impeached, that is reason enough to impeach him. If impeachment is a political process, as has been argued over and over and over again here by people suggesting that the president can't be indicted (which I don't necessarily disagree with), then you in fact can impeach really for any reason.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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Congress can impeach a ham sandwich if they want to.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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4 minutes ago, renoskier said:

Sure you can.

Don't confuse impeachment with Senate conviction.

High crimes and misdemeanors are the standard for impeachment. He was correct in saying you can't impeach someone because you don't like him.  That's what elections are for.  

"Don't underestimate Joe Biden's ability to F@*k things up."

Barack Obama

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6 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

I know how it works.

I'm operating on the assumption that the congress wouldn't impeach someone just to play games, and that they would only do so with the belief that there is a basis for conviction.

If impeachment is a political process, as is argued on here and elsewhere a lot right now, then that is one of the best reasons to impeach someone.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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Just now, Aslowhiteguy said:

High crimes and misdemeanors are the standard for impeachment. He was correct in saying you can't impeach someone because you don't like him.  That's what elections are for.  

If impeachment is a political process, then congressional elections are implicitly about the standard for impeachment. I think they will soon be explicitly about that.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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7 minutes ago, bluerules009 said:

I agree on the technicalities of your argument.

The reality is if congress is removing presidents based on nothing but political bias our governments checks and balances are dead.  Our government is dead.

I think more presidents should be impeached. I said that long before Trump was on the scene. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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3 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

You and Alan Dershowtiz are not sitting congressmen.

The fact of the matter is that the right number of sitting congressmen believe that the president should be impeached, that is reason enough to impeach him. If impeachment is a political process, as has been argued over and over and over again here by people suggesting that the president can't be indicted (which I don't necessarily disagree with), then you in fact can impeach really for any reason.

Point is...

It will backfire on the Democrats, big time, if they impeach Trump, when, based on the Mueller report, there is no evidence he ever committed any "high crimes and misdemeanors".    Right now, there is no valid basis for impeachment.

But sure.... if enough Democrats think it is a great idea to impeach Trump because they are butthurt about the fact that he's President, then by all means proceed.   And watch this Democrat Kangaroo Court turn into an absolute clown show.   It will guarantee a Trump reelection.   Some of them are simply too dumb to figure this out.   Others are smart enough, and trying to stop the nut jobs of their party.

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6 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

I know how it works.

I'm operating on the assumption that the congress wouldn't impeach someone just to play games, and that they would only do so with the belief that there is a basis for conviction.

What planet you living on?

Many of the Dems in House voted to impeach before the report was even finalized.  Remember this?

 

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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