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mugtang

Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

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1 hour ago, soupslam1 said:

Weird how a fire at Norte Dame can evolve into a political debate. Like old basketball players, old debaters need to give it up when they leave high school and college and their skills erode. 

Yeah, but you still didn't answer my question regarding "American exceptionalism". Why do you consider this ignorance "political debate"?

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3 hours ago, Bob said:

Point in case

At least I'm not a giant dripping vag of a hypocrite (like you are, in case you missed the inference). I give to charity, asshole. I also sit on the board of a non-profit that provides help for victims of domestic abuse.  I always help someone who is in need if I can. And if I have a buck in my pocket, I always kick it down to whoever is pitching a tent at an intersection holding their "Need Help" sign, because I figure they need it more than I do. So blow it out your fake Christian ass, fake Christian.

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1 hour ago, TheSanDiegan said:

At least I'm not a giant dripping vag of a hypocrite (like you are, in case you missed the inference). I give to charity, asshole. I also sit on the board of a non-profit that provides help for victims of domestic abuse.  I always help someone who is in need if I can. And if I have a buck in my pocket, I always kick it down to whoever is pitching a tent at an intersection holding their "Need Help" sign, because I figure they need it more than I do. So blow it out your fake Christian, fake Christian.

Sounds like you are a great guy off this board. Why are you such an asshole on it? 

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56 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

Sounds like you are a great guy off this board. Why are you such an asshole on it? 

Getting the poison out online keeps me from bitchslapping the fvck out of people IRL. Oh, and troll derby.

FWIW tho, I've been known to be kind of an asshole IRL too (at east according to those who know me best). But only because of the breeding fvckwits who aspire to a state of punctuated equilibrium. That said people - wife, closest friends, etc. - choose to want to have and keep me in their respective lives says something I suppose.

My life has taught me there are two distinct types of people who fall somewhere along the spectrum of misanthropy: those who hate life (and act accordingly), and those who love life (and act accordingly). Neither are a fan of their fellow man, but for entirely different reasons. And I don't dislike all my fellow man - just the willfully ignorant who choose to promulgate their ignorance. 

But enough about my shortcomings... to the issue at hand - I take solace in the fact that most of the structure remains intact - the rose windows, clochers, and flying buttresses are all important artifacts of Gothic art and architecture. And many of the most important artifacts housed within appear to have survived. Both the structure and the art within are not just French treasures; they are treasures for all mankind.

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1 hour ago, soupslam1 said:

Sounds like you are a great guy off this board. Why are you such an asshole on it? 

You own a mirror?

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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Two days after, it looks like the stone structure is intact.

PHOTO: An interior view of the Notre-Dame Cathedral in Paris in the aftermath of a fire that devastated the cathedral, April 16, 2019. (AFP/Getty Images)

I don't know what kind of stone they used. From preliminary looking, the only stone that is mentioned is limestone, which unfortunately can change chemically with high heat (I mean, that's how we make lime). There may have to be significant testing to ensure that the stone itself is sound. Given the construction of the cathedral (flying buttresses), I imagine that not having a roof diaphragm for the time being will not be the disaster it would be in other buildings, but I hope they get something temporary up there somewhat quickly. It would help workers if the structure were enclosed again as well. 

@Jimbo_Poke do you think a false ceiling that aesthetically resembles the original with modern construction methods for strength, or do you think they replicate the original roof framing?

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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2 minutes ago, happycamper said:

Two days after, it looks like the stone structure is intact.

PHOTO: An interior view of the Notre-Dame Cathedral in Paris in the aftermath of a fire that devastated the cathedral, April 16, 2019. (AFP/Getty Images)

I don't know what kind of stone they used. From preliminary looking, the only stone that is mentioned is limestone, which unfortunately can change chemically with high heat (I mean, that's how we make lime). There may have to be significant testing to ensure that the stone itself is sound. Given the construction of the cathedral (flying buttresses), I imagine that not having a roof diaphragm for the time being will not be the disaster it would be in other buildings, but I hope they get something temporary up there somewhat quickly. It would help workers if the structure were enclosed again as well. 

@Jimbo_Poke do you think a false ceiling that aesthetically resembles the original with modern construction methods for strength, or do you think they replicate the original roof framing?

I wonder if they'll rebuild the steeple with modern materials?

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35 minutes ago, happycamper said:

Two days after, it looks like the stone structure is intact.

PHOTO: An interior view of the Notre-Dame Cathedral in Paris in the aftermath of a fire that devastated the cathedral, April 16, 2019. (AFP/Getty Images)

I don't know what kind of stone they used. From preliminary looking, the only stone that is mentioned is limestone, which unfortunately can change chemically with high heat yep (I mean, that's how we make lime). There may have to be significant testing to ensure that the stone itself is sound. Given the construction of the cathedral (flying buttresses), I imagine that not having a roof diaphragm for the time being will not be the disaster it would be in other buildings, but I hope they get something temporary up there somewhat quickly. It would help workers if the structure were enclosed again as well. Agreed

@Jimbo_Poke do you think a false ceiling that aesthetically resembles the original with modern construction methods for strength, or do you think they replicate the original roof framing?

I haven't looked at any sort of structural plans of the roof framing but I have read a number of stories referencing the roof framing as a forest.  The task of trying to recreate that and analyzing that framing seems daunting.  My shoot from the hip idea is using modern construction methods in concealed spaces like the roof would help shorten the project duration, possibly lighten the dead load on the potentially weakened stone, and help reduce costs.  I am guessing the roof framing will be modern with a false ceiling and some architectural use of the oaks grown at Versailles to match historical interior appearance.

My two cents on the cause and origin.  These investigations take time, and unless (as you mentioned earlier) you have workers reporting the cause directly to the investigators/police it is best to take a wait and see.  They report they have not found evidence of arson, but I have worked on much smaller fires that the evidence for arson was not apparent or found until days or even weeks into the investigation.  With the 1000-2000 French Christian Churches that have been vandalized (varying degrees but includes some arson) these past two years the potential that this was an act of arson is likely in the back of a lot of French minds.  I think to try and quiet that is certainly coming into play in the rapid dissemination that this was related to the renovation.  I will leave it at that, and let's see what the investigators determine. 

For those worrying about potential cover ups, I am assuming (dangerous I know but I don't have time now to look up property insurance and civil law in France) insurance works somewhat similar to insurance here in the states.  The cause of that fire is going to determine who is paying big sums of money.  You will have multiple outside inspectors (not just government) representing different parties (owner, contractor, subcontractors ) looking at it, looking at the evidence.  That again is if the French system is at all similar to ours.  It may or may not be.  I hope it is similar as this system helps prevent cover-ups and adds transparency to such events and helps reduce conspiracy talk. 

As a Catholic engineer who thoroughly enjoys history and historical architecture, the loss that did happen really gets at me.  That written I am thankful that no one was seriously hurt let alone killed, and am thankful to the efforts of those firefighters who in such tough conditions saved what they saved.  In the end, if this reinvigorates the actual Catholic Church in Paris (not the building but the people) I will count this as an overall blessing rather than a total tragedy.  

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I am glad it is still standing, but some cool stuff had to have been lost.  There were some incredible carvings around the outside of the choir that illustrated stories from the bible.  I can't imagine they survived.  I was there two years ago with a pastor friend of mine.  It was fun to look at the different panels and try and figure out what bible story was being portrayed.

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On 4/17/2019 at 10:43 AM, happycamper said:

Two days after, it looks like the stone structure is intact.

PHOTO: An interior view of the Notre-Dame Cathedral in Paris in the aftermath of a fire that devastated the cathedral, April 16, 2019. (AFP/Getty Images)

I don't know what kind of stone they used. From preliminary looking, the only stone that is mentioned is limestone, which unfortunately can change chemically with high heat (I mean, that's how we make lime). There may have to be significant testing to ensure that the stone itself is sound. Given the construction of the cathedral (flying buttresses), I imagine that not having a roof diaphragm for the time being will not be the disaster it would be in other buildings, but I hope they get something temporary up there somewhat quickly. It would help workers if the structure were enclosed again as well. 

@Jimbo_Poke do you think a false ceiling that aesthetically resembles the original with modern construction methods for strength, or do you think they replicate the original roof framing?

It’s quite a blessing that there wasn’t much to burn below the roof, and most of the intense heat rose above the cathedral, not so much inside. But if there had been a lot of fuel to burn at ground level, might have made it worse. 

Gothic Architecture was pretty damn strong, and since fire was such a really, really big threat in those days, they designed it so the only thing that could really burn would be the ceiling and then the stone, below, would be fine. 

Actually, since the stone isn’t like reinforced concrete, the un-uniform temps of stone can lead it to crack and even fail. So in this case, putting too much water on it would lead to cracking, and possibly some failure. 

I haven’t been able to find what kind of stone it is, yet. 

https://www.citylab.com/design/2019/04/notre-dame-cathedral-fire-paris-gothic-architecture-history/587191/

 

kat.jpg

 

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On 4/16/2019 at 4:33 PM, TheSanDiegan said:

You can f*ck right off for pretending to know whats in someone's heart.

Even Jesus thinks your a f*cking cvnt. GTFO, fake Christian.

jesus+fuck+you.jpg

Let’s try to be loving to each other. If you’re angry, try to think of fluffy clouds, big hugs, little puppy’s and gentle breezes. Jesus loves you. 

kat.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, Nevada Convert said:

Let’s try to be loving to each other. If you’re angry, try to think of fluffy clouds, big hugs, little puppy’s and gentle breezes. Jesus loves you. 

Sounds like someone's offering up hand jobs on a church bus.

 

Again.

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On 4/16/2019 at 4:33 PM, TheSanDiegan said:

You can f*ck right off for pretending to know whats in someone's heart.

Even Jesus thinks your a f*cking cvnt. GTFO, fake Christian.

jesus+fuck+you.jpg

Dude, that’s not Jesus! You’ve been scammed. That’s my old landscaper asshole, Jesus, that I fired last month because he thought he was fvcking Jesus. 

kat.jpg

 

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19 hours ago, Nevada Convert said:

Let’s try to be loving to each other. If you’re angry, try to think of fluffy clouds, big hugs, little puppy’s and gentle breezes. Jesus loves you. 

15 hours ago, Nevada Convert said:

Dude, that’s not Jesus! You’ve been scammed. That’s my old landscaper asshole, Jesus, that I fired last month because he thought he was fvcking Jesus. 

Maybe the third time will be the charm?

I mean, if I put a bunch of monkeys in a room full of computers, sooner or later one of them would post something funny. And if they can do it, you can too.

 

giphy.gif

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