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Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire

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1 hour ago, sebasour said:

French police are reporting it as an accident related to construction 

Sounds fishy that the police dept would reach that conclusion before the fire dept can begin to investigate.

 

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9 minutes ago, Nevada Convert said:

I was thinking the use of helibuckets on helicopters. You can drop water and fire retardant foam from a helibucket. In urban areas, fire fighters usually have enough hydrants, hoses and trucks to get it done. It doesn’t appear that the ND area of Paris has the water hydrant infrastructure necessary to put a fire like that out. I don’t know how  retardant foam or water couldn’t have helped a lot. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter_bucket

 

They are even reluctant to do bucket drops in an area with a lot of wildland firefighters.  Water is heavy and gravity adds to that.  Many wildland firefighters have been hurt by bucket drops and one or two even killed.  They can barely control it in the wild, I doubt they can take that chance in a city, with many firefighters and civilians around on the ground..  

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10 minutes ago, easybronc said:

Sounds fishy that the police dept would reach that conclusion before the fire dept can begin to investigate.

 

If it was caused by a construction accident, the workers would have reported it themselves...

 

Just now, Broncomare said:

They are even reluctant to do bucket drops in an area with a lot of wildland firefighters.  Water is heavy and gravity adds to that.  Many wildland firefighters have been hurt by bucket drops and one or two even killed.  They can barely control it in the wild, I doubt they can take that chance in a city, with many firefighters and civilians around on the ground..  

Not to mention that this is France. We have this equipment because we have the very dry and high West. I don't think there is a single part of France that is as climatically susceptible to forest fires the way the western US is. 

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23 minutes ago, Broncomare said:

They are even reluctant to do bucket drops in an area with a lot of wildland firefighters.  Water is heavy and gravity adds to that.  Many wildland firefighters have been hurt by bucket drops and one or two even killed.  They can barely control it in the wild, I doubt they can take that chance in a city, with many firefighters and civilians around on the ground..  

In this case there isn’t going to be any crews in the cathedral to get hit. 

Fire retardant foam is very very light compared to water. Water is 62.4 pcf (lbs per cubic ft) and fire retardant foam is only 1.0 to 2.5 pcf. The weight of the foam wouldn’t hurt anyone.

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1364205O/3m-fire-block-foam-fb-foam.pdf

 

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10 minutes ago, Lester_in_reno said:

Sucks Sucks Sucks Sucks !

 

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This magnificent structure survived looting, the Crusades, revolutions, the Napoleonic Wars, and two world wars. I just hope that the relics that were in the vaults survived. 

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50 minutes ago, happycamper said:

If it was caused by a construction accident, the workers would have reported it themselves...

 

Not to mention that this is France. We have this equipment because we have the very dry and high West. I don't think there is a single part of France that is as climatically susceptible to forest fires the way the western US is. 

We’re talking about an urban cathedral fire, not a dry forest fire. Urban fires don’t have anything to do with what kind of climate you’re in. If they don’t have enough hydrant coverage in urban areas, then they need some additional help such as helibucket drops or ????

Drops of water are even more dangerous to the pilots of air tankers, helicopters, etc. with some terrible crashes in recent history. But those don’t stop them from fighting fires. 

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8 minutes ago, Nevada Convert said:

We’re talking about an urban cathedral fire, not a dry forest fire. Urban fires don’t have anything to do with what kind of climate you’re in. If they don’t have enough hydrant coverage in urban areas, then they need some additional help such as helibucket drops or ????

Drops of water are even more dangerous to the pilots of air tankers, helicopters, etc. with some terrible crashes in recent history. But those don’t stop them from fighting fires. 

Convert, why would a nation such as France HAVE any airborne firefighting infrastructure? What forest fires are they fighting? I mean, I sincerely doubt that Louisiana has much in the way of that kind of equipment either. 

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34 minutes ago, easybronc said:

Maybe an accident but I'll keep an open mind due to recent attacks on French churches.

https://www.rt.com/news/456629-french-catholic-churches-attacks/

Yes, I'm well aware that you posted that hoping it was a mooslim so you can get a hate boner. 

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15 minutes ago, happycamper said:

Convert, why would a nation such as France HAVE any airborne firefighting infrastructure? What forest fires are they fighting? I mean, I sincerely doubt that Louisiana has much in the way of that kind of equipment either. 

I’m not debating whether they actually had any. I’m debating that it would’ve been effective and that they should’ve had at least one nearby. I’m sure the French have them, but it probably would’ve taken way too many hours to get it there. Now they’re reporting that it took those boneheaded Paris fire fighters 2 HOURS just to arrive at the fire. That is unbelievable. 

Edit: Just checked and they have 40 helicopter with the helibuckets.

https://fireaviation.com/2018/01/16/conair-to-convert-six-q400s-into-multirole-air-tankers-for-france/

 

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20 minutes ago, happycamper said:

Yes, I'm well aware that you posted that hoping it was a mooslim so you can get a hate boner. 

I'm sorry that being open minded is politically incorrect for your team.  The fact is there has been a rash of arson and vandalism on European churches recently.

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Just now, easybronc said:

I'm sorry that being open minded is politically incorrect for your team.  The fact is there has been a rash of arson and vandalism on European churches recently.

That is literally the opposite of what "open minded" means dude

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Thankfully the main structure has been saved. It will probably be a few days before we know the full extent of the damage. 

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23 minutes ago, happycamper said:

That is literally the opposite of what "open minded" means dude

You would see it that way because things look backwards when you have your head up your ass.  I'm open to different causes for the fire depending on what they find while you've ruled out arson before the investigation has started.  

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+++++ing horrible

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1 hour ago, happycamper said:

Convert, why would a nation such as France HAVE any airborne firefighting infrastructure? What forest fires are they fighting? I mean, I sincerely doubt that Louisiana has much in the way of that kind of equipment either. 

There are areas of France that are prone to wildfires and they do have airborne firefighting equipment.  Here is a story about a recent fire in France:  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40725294

From what I have heard one reason air drops were not done is because of the height of the flames and the height of the buildings.  Evidently, the aircraft would have to fly too high to make an effective drop.  

What I don't get is all the people ready to second guess the firefighters on the scene.

 

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I would guess that the danger of damaging the structure and collapsing walls and such from an airdrop of water outweigh what benefits it could have had.

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35 minutes ago, sandiegopete said:

There are areas of France that are prone to wildfires and they do have airborne firefighting equipment.  Here is a story about a recent fire in France:  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40725294

From what I have heard one reason air drops were not done is because of the height of the flames and the height of the buildings.  Evidently, the aircraft would have to fly too high to make an effective drop.  

What I don't get is all the people ready to second guess the firefighters on the scene.

 

They want it to be part of some grand conspiracy that ends up with some Muslim having set the fire.

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