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UNLV Roster - Roster for 2019-2020 and Beyond.

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1 hour ago, Meister_Rebel said:

You can be pissed that MM was fired but there is no way you could convince me things were going to get better. 

Me being pissed has nothing to do with Menzies. I couldnt care less about MM. I dont even feel sorry for him. 

I care about the program.

Your place of not being convinced of improvement does not come from facts. It comes from a strong like/dislike bias of Menzies. Going from 4 to 8 to 11 wins in conference is literal, mathematical improvement. But you cant be convinced? I dont get it when anyone makes this argument.

Because I am looking at the situation literally, and it seems many others are looking at it philosophically:shrug:, I saw no reason to switch horses, and the timing could not have been worse. This is why I now see DRF as an amatuer even if she got this hire correct.

This does not mean that I hate or dislike Totz. It just means looking at resumes and production, there is no concrete reason to go from Menzies to Otzelberger on paper. If youre making a move based on ticket sales, and you bring in a coach who is not clearly better, that is change for the sake of change. Its a marketing ploy like free hot dogs and nachos and it could reverse progress that has been made.

No one here is guaranteeing success from Otzelberger in two years. Its possible MM builds on 11 mwc wins next season. As it stands now noone expects that. 

From people who put the program first, this should be a time to be pissed. Weve been waiting since before DRF even got here.

1 hour ago, Meister_Rebel said:

Jury is still out on Totz.  I'm just hoping for a better future.

 

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3 hours ago, Meister_Rebel said:

There was no fan enthusiasm.  Fans progressively stopped going to games.  Ticket sales lagged.  You call it a cover.  I call it reality.  Thank you DRF for doing the right thing. 

Ultimately a near empty Mack and little to no progress being made sealed his fate.  He had to go, it’s been rehashed so many times on here and now there’s revisionism going on by saying “UNLV coulda been ranked next season had they stuck with MM!” Lol right

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15 hours ago, Balzac said:

I've stayed silent up until now but I think that it was a BRUTAL mistake letting Menzies go at this juncture.

Woodbury is the kind of guy that stays in a program 4 years and becomes a 'program guy'.

Ntambwe is a future pro.

Losing Josh Pierre-Louis was another blow. Menzies was bringing in good talent... but it was young.

Now you're replacing them with Moses Wood from Tulane??????

I'm not seeing it.

I don't see where UNLV benefitted in this transaction. The Rebs just tacked on more years until the program is respectable.

It was time to let Menzies go.  The T&M Arena was virtually empty this season, despite the still significant number of season ticket sales.  But every year that legacy season ticket holders go without attending games, a significant percentage of those finally terminate their season tickets.  At UNLV 1000 season ticket sales decreased is a loss of over $1M up front, and more in vending.  The record this year did not tell the story.  The only significant win Menzies had this season was BYU, and even then it was because of lights-out 3-point shooting to build a huge halftime lead, then collapse in the 2nd half and go to overtime and win in overtime off of clutch shots by a walk-on.  There were a lot of blow-out losses to teams like Bucknell, and no wins against any conference team with a winning record.  The people who are expected to buy season tickets suffered through all this.

"At this juncture" it was easier to let Menzies go than it would be next spring after the same lineup returned to face an even worse MWC and most likely finish top 3 but not make the tournament, but have 20+ wins because 20+ winnable games were on the schedule.

There's always been more to the story with Woodbury than seems to get reported.  He got kicked off his high school team.  Other players don't seem to want to play with him.  We'll see where he ends up.

Josh Pierre-Louis was a loss, despite the injury that may cause him to sit out his first year.  Ethan Anderson was an even greater loss.

 

12 hours ago, Balzac said:

If UNLV would have hired Mike Miller, instead of Burger, I guarantee you UNLV would be well on their way to Top 20 classes..

It would be night and day to what UNLV has done to this point, with Moses Wood, etc..

Memphis fans everywhere are toasting to UNLV. UNLV's coaching hire came at a crucial time.

Full steam ahead

 

 

Mike Miller was never a serious candidate for the UNLV position, and by law in Nevada he could not have been hired because he does not have a college degree yet.  A certain faction led by a radio guy kept pushing his name on social media, and claimed "for an A-list hire like Mike Miller they would waive that degree requirement".... but no, that requirement was not waived even for UNLV legend Reggie Theus, or other minority coaching candidates, so do you really think that it would be now?

That radio guy had a personal connection to the Millers (Mike and Ryan), and undoubtedly Mike Miller will be considered for HC jobs next spring (Mark Anderson said Miller is on track to get his degree this summer), but right now the agenda seemed to be to just get his name out there as much as possible.  Comically he (radio guy) was organizing a "demonstration to insist UNLV hire Miller" outside the T&M, very similar to the recent LA Laker protest at Staples.  The rest of the "A-List" according to that radio guy included his other buddy Larry Eustachy (former CSU coach), Thad Motta, and Eric Musselman - who he said was "begging to be considered for the UNLV job".  Lots of "spin".

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Discussing Menzies is fundamental to the discussion of how we ended up here and where we are going. Theres literally nothing else to discuss.

The people who repeatedly say, "its time to let Menzies go" or "we need to stop talking about Menzies" have to realize how silly they sound trying to control the narrative, telling other adults what to discuss. Just stop. People still discuss Rice, Kruger and Tark. 

A lot of people feel that firing Menzies equals an automatic improvement. We were all excited after he was let go, but some of us have had that excitement tempered by the hire of an unknown who comes in with an inferior resume to the person he replaced.

Taking it for granted that everyone should see this move the way you do is naive. 

Im hopeful for the future, but to pretend to know for sure the UNLV program is somehow in much better hands is beyond premature. DRF replacing a coach showing improvement with an unknown with no track record to boost ticket sales is amateurish. Its just true. I hope it works but winning brings the crowds in Las Vegas. Everything else is a gimmick.

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2 minutes ago, 4UNLV said:

Posted in the other thread, but Kansas State will play UNLV at the Mack this coming year, return trip next year. TJ isn’t messing around. 

He can schedule duke 15 times. In order to build the program he's got to win.

You cant build a program off of losing.

 

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20 minutes ago, qwelish said:

He can schedule duke 15 times. In order to build the program he's got to win.

You cant build a program off of losing.

 

Well, Kansas State isn’t Duke, and maybe you even win some of these. I know that as a fan I am more enthused to be going to a game with Kansas state than Incarnate Word. That enthusiasm carries over, players want to play these teams. 

 

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22 hours ago, Balzac said:

I've stayed silent up until now but I think that it was a BRUTAL mistake letting Menzies go at this juncture.

Woodbury is the kind of guy that stays in a program 4 years and becomes a 'program guy'.

Ntambwe is a future pro.

Losing Josh Pierre-Louis was another blow. Menzies was bringing in good talent... but it was young.

Now you're replacing them with Moses Wood from Tulane??????

I'm not seeing it.

I don't see where UNLV benefitted in this transaction. The Rebs just tacked on more years until the program is respectable.

I have no idea how Otz will do at UNLV (and I am unimpressed so far), but judging a hiring decision after only a few weeks of months is premature. There are almost always growing pains when there is a coaching change.  Menzies was one of the worst recipients.  When he was hired nearly all of Rice's players left and he had to scrape the bottom of the barrel just to find guys who could play.

Also, we've had recruits hold the program hostage before.  This lead to us giving Rice an extension instead of letting USF take him off our hands and it lead to UNLV passing on Ben Howland so Rice could land Zimmerman. Despite this, Rice won 0 MWC regular season titles, 0 MWC tournament titles, and 0 NCAA tournament games. 

22 hours ago, Balzac said:

It benefits the Burger (I'm not going to attempt to spell his name) to blow this thing up and start over...

It gives him a built in excuse to take his time.

Why would a coach for a program that just fired its head coach after 3 years think he has time?

12 hours ago, qwelish said:

UNLV was poised to win more than it is now.

While this may be true, it is a terrible metric for judging a coaching change.  Nearly every coaching change involves a step back in the first year. When a coach leaves, his players often leave. And, given that coaches are hired after a season a late in the recruiting cycle, they typically don't grab high rated or impact players. It happens, but it is the exception rather than the rule.

12 hours ago, qwelish said:

Your place of not being convinced of improvement does not come from facts. It comes from a strong like/dislike bias of Menzies. Going from 4 to 8 to 11 wins in conference is literal, mathematical improvement. But you cant be convinced? I dont get it when anyone makes this argument.

Because I am looking at the situation literally, and it seems many others are looking at it philosophically:shrug:, I saw no reason to switch horses, and the timing could not have been worse. This is why I now see DRF as an amatuer even if she got this hire correct.

I tend to agree with you that, on paper, it doesn't make much sense to swap Menzies for Otz, but looking at Menzies wins is more than just looking at the number. You are trying to take a multi-variable analysis and turn it into a single-variable analysis.  Teams change from year to year and the talent level ebbs and flows.  Winning 11 conference games against teams with mostly 200- or 300-level RPIs is nothing to write home about, but winning 11 games in Kruger's MWC would have been a different animal. That doesn't make it a philosophical analysis, it just means people are looking past the numbers and trying to determine what those numbers actually represent.

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14 hours ago, qwelish said:

Not many here are going to admit UNLV has gone backwards to date. No doubt the team UNLV puts on the floor so far is worse than what MM was going to have. Theres time for signings. Im hopeful.

UNLV can still end up better in 2019 and after than MM. TJ and staff have got to kill recruiting the 1st time. Trey entering the portal will be unpopular, unless theres a couple big signings.

The fire and hire was a rookie AD looking to build her resume after being stone walled from making a change with football. She was itching to make a move and jumped the shark a bit using ticket sales and slow progress as her cover.

Pretty sure Ntambwe was gone either way. I do think UNLV had a shot at Christian Brown. Add him to Ethan, JPL and UNLV is ranked. I doubt MM continues to recruit at that level and people pretended like his ceiling was capped, although none of us knows.

Lul. Not with Menzies at the helm. 

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1 hour ago, qwelish said:

He can schedule duke 15 times. In order to build the program he's got to win.

You cant build a program off of losing.

 

Better than the trash schedules that Menzies put together to get his "20 wins." And he couldn't even achieve that benchmark last season. 

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4 minutes ago, BleedRed702 said:

Better than the trash schedules that Menzies put together to get his "20 wins." And he couldn't even achieve that benchmark last season. 

Yes but come January, will anyone still be showing up to the T & M when the Rebs go 4-8 in the OOC?

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49 minutes ago, HoosierRebel said:

I tend to agree with you that, on paper, it doesn't make much sense to swap Menzies for Otz, but looking at Menzies wins is more than just looking at the number. You are trying to take a multi-variable analysis and turn it into a single-variable analysis.  Teams change from year to year and the talent level ebbs and flows.  Winning 11 conference games against teams with mostly 200- or 300-level RPIs is nothing to write home about, but winning 11 games in Kruger's MWC would have been a different animal. That doesn't make it a philosophical analysis, it just means people are looking past the numbers and trying to determine what those numbers actually represent.

I agree it varies, thats why I say its irrelevant. When the conference was ranked higher, 9th, Menzies still showed improvement. Three years of improvement in a row is a trend. The mwc champs won only 3 more games.

Also, you can only win the conference you play in. MM cannot do anything about other teams and years. The wac is a similar level league to the mwc.  MM dominated there and moved the needle in the right direction each year here.

Its also odd that noone has brought up how bad of a league the Summit is that TJ came from. People were all over MMs record and that he was 3rd choice.

Im really trying to figure out why everyone is so sold. 

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16 minutes ago, qwelish said:

I agree it varies, thats why I say its irrelevant. When the conference was ranked higher, 9th, Menzies still showed improvement. Three years of improvement in a row is a trend. The mwc champs won only 3 more games.

Also, you can only win the conference you play in. MM cannot do anything about other teams and years. The wac is a similar level league to the mwc.  MM dominated there and moved the needle in the right direction each year here.

Also, its also odd that noone has brought up how bad of a league the Summit is that TJ came from. People were all over MMs record and that he was 3rd choice.

Im really trying to figure out why everyone is so sold. 

Im not sold on TJ at all and not impressed so far, other than the fact he was able to retain several key players which in itself us difficult during a coaching change (Mediocre Marv couldnt do it).

I am thankful Mediocre Marv is gone, for reasons already hashed out above. Your statements about him possibly being ranked next year are classic!! They rank up there with playersinvegas comments that schools like Houston would be salivating to hire him!!

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Most conclusions being drawn right now are unfounded. It's all a guess. I believe after 3 years of watching Marv's Rebels we knew who he was. We'll need some time to see who Otz is as well.

The more challenging schedule is a plus for anyone wanting to build a program instead of trying to control an image of competence. 

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1 hour ago, 4UNLV said:

Posted in the other thread, but Kansas State will play UNLV at the Mack this coming year, return trip next year. TJ isn’t messing around. 

Can't deny there's a difference in scheduling between Menzies and TJO..............and I prefer the better schedule, BUT, if TJO wants a tougher schedule, he's probably looking at more losses in the early going, especially year one where the roster is not exactly looking very strong 

TJO is pretty much in a rebuild despite what DRF says or thinks - and this scheduling seems to be a tool TJO is using to entice better recruits and some more tickets sold at the T&M...............Menzies might have been 18 wins with no real 'name' opponents, where TJO might be at 12 wins with the losses coming to better opponents this coming season .............and hoping this scheduling pays off in the following years with recruits 

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39 minutes ago, renoskier said:

Yes but come January, will anyone still be showing up to the T & M when the Rebs go 4-8 in the OOC?

Yeah, so lets go back to scheduling cupcakes that we still ended up losing to. Sounds like a great plan to build a program. 

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