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UNLV Roster - Roster for 2019-2020 and Beyond.

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1 hour ago, ph90702 said:

I do t think the roster will be as bad as people make it out to be.  Give Otzelberger a chance for next year and to recruit.

When did you become the voice of reason. Hell, the whole world Is turned upside down. Watch out now because your wacko reputation is at risk. 

On the serious side though I’d comment on your post, “exactly”.

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3 hours ago, qwelish said:

All im saying is Totz is not the name or resume we were promised. Totz is a 3rd choice just like MM. 

The roster has gone from stable with continuity, to uncertain at the current moment with a bunch of new faces.  

Otz definitely was not the name we were expecting when the coaching search started and I have no idea how he will do as the coach here.  In all honesty, I think bringing Otz in was a lateral move, with the potential to be a step down.

As far as the roster stability vs. roster uncertainty, that is just what happens when you have a coaching change.  It doesn't mean Otz is a good or bad coach or that Menzeis was a good or bad coach, it is just the natural product of change.

3 hours ago, qwelish said:

Once again just stating facts gets you attacked around here. 

I don't really have a dog in this fight and I mostly just lurk the board, but your posts often come off as condescending and abrasive. Maybe something is getting lost in translation or maybe you are just mad and pounding away at your keyboard. You are free to do whatever you want with that information, but I am just offering up my disinterested opinion.

15 minutes ago, qwelish said:

Youre the only one talking about the strength of schedule. It is well established that the mwc was bad and MM only beat bad to mediocre teams.

My point is that it is irrelevant.

Beating those bad teams only establishes that he actually improved the program, because he lost to those teams in previous years. Also, those teams got worse and UNLV continually got better. 

He was doing his job although at a slow rate and in the most mediocre way possible.

Having a bad, and declining, MWC is not an irrelevant point.  I understand, and agree with, your point that Menzies has no control over that, but it is still a factor in evaluating Menzies. Also, Menzies could have still been improving the program while the rest of the MWC was declining. Just because other programs are getting worse does not mean that UNLV is.

With that said, Menzies "improvement" of the program is also a function of just how terrible the program was when he took over.  His first year we lost to SJSU twice and only won 4-5 conference games. That is absolutely putrid. The second season we won more in conference as we did in the third season, but the only real quality in-conference win during Menzies entire tenure was when he knocked of UNR in Reno.  Other than that, it was very blase. I would also point out that saying Menzies did better than Rice is, in my opinion, an unconvincing argument. At this point there is no real argument that Rice did not dramatically underachieve and he was rightfully shown the door. So if you want to argue that Menzies was as bad a coach as our other bad coach, I guess that is your prerogative.

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15 minutes ago, HoosierRebel said:

I don't really have a dog in this fight and I mostly just lurk the board, but your posts often come off as condescending and abrasive. Maybe something is getting lost in translation or maybe you are just mad and pounding away at your keyboard. You are free to do whatever you want with that information, but I am just offering up my disinterested opinion.

Probably. Its a byproduct of what I deal with here. I have to deal with all sorts of attacks and I have no problem attacking back. Do you notice me ever being attacked?

I condescend a bunch, but its almost entirely in response to being condescended. 

Just once Id love for someone to point out to me how I just attacked someone for no reason at all at the point when I did it. Never seems to happen, or the person just attacked me and people ignore it and just cherry pick my retort. Its fine, though.

For all the claims of me condescending and attacking, id love for just one person to point out an instance when I did that unprovoked. 

Just one. 

There is vitriol here for people who disagree. I post and im replying to 4 or 5 people countering the same points over and over. Theres got to be at least one instance of me doing that. But where is it?

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26 minutes ago, HoosierRebel said:

 

Otz definitely was not the name we were expecting when the coaching search started and I have no idea how he will do as the coach here.  In all honesty, I think bringing Otz in was a lateral move, with the potential to be a step down.

As far as the roster stability vs. roster uncertainty, that is just what happens when you have a coaching change.  It doesn't mean Otz is a good or bad coach or that Menzeis was a good or bad coach, it is just the natural product of change.

I don't really have a dog in this fight and I mostly just lurk the board, but your posts often come off as condescending and abrasive. Maybe something is getting lost in translation or maybe you are just mad and pounding away at your keyboard. You are free to do whatever you want with that information, but I am just offering up my disinterested opinion.

Having a bad, and declining, MWC is not an irrelevant point.  I understand, and agree with, your point that Menzies has no control over that, but it is still a factor in evaluating Menzies. Also, Menzies could have still been improving the program while the rest of the MWC was declining. Just because other programs are getting worse does not mean that UNLV is.

With that said, Menzies "improvement" of the program is also a function of just how terrible the program was when he took over.  His first year we lost to SJSU twice and only won 4-5 conference games. That is absolutely putrid. The second season we won more in conference as we did in the third season, but the only real quality in-conference win during Menzies entire tenure was when he knocked of UNR in Reno.  Other than that, it was very blase. I would also point out that saying Menzies did better than Rice is, in my opinion, an unconvincing argument. At this point there is no real argument that Rice did not dramatically underachieve and he was rightfully shown the door. So if you want to argue that Menzies was as bad a coach as our other bad coach, I guess that is your prerogative.

Its irrelevant to the original and only point I was making. 

Totz is not what we were promised, hes no more proven than MM and his resume is no better. That does not mean he wont be good or better or whatever.

Dudes retort was not to talk about Totz resume, but to trash MM. Which was irrelevant because the mwc strength has nothing to do with their respective resumes prior to UNLV.

See? This is what they do. He twisted the original point so much you couldnt even tell what we were debating. They change the point, move the goal post around, make vague arguments and if all else fails they will just misrepresent your point and then attack the strawman. When you call them out they get angry and attack you.

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1 hour ago, HoosierRebel said:

Menzies could have still been improving the program while the rest of the MWC was declining.

He was. Thats a huge part of my point.

Conference RPI rank and wins:

RICE last 3 years

Rank 10th - 10 wins

Rank 13th - 8 wins

Rank 11th - 8 wins

MM  last 3 years

Rank 10th - 4 wins

Rank 9th - 8 wins

Rank 15th - 11 wins

1 hour ago, HoosierRebel said:

I would also point out that saying Menzies did better than Rice is, in my opinion, an unconvincing argument. 

This is exactly what im talking about with strawman arguments. I never made this argument that you are unconvinced by, although its true. 

My exact statement was, "There is not a huge difference in league strength since Rice was here."

The statistics above show that to be true. But you took my quote out of context, which makes your comment...: 

1 hour ago, HoosierRebel said:

Having a bad, and declining, MWC is not an irrelevant point.

...untrue. The stats show that the conference had been bad, but improved each year under MM until this year. MM faced a better MWC than Rice ever saw and did better. MMs trajectory was improvement and stability. 

Also, I was talking about the conference, not Rice the coach. But I know DRs name triggers people.

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1 hour ago, qwelish said:

Is 11 an improvement on the mwc win total over any point in the previous 7 seasons? Will UNLV win 11 mwc games this year?

How does any of that make Totz a big name or improve his resume? 

It doesnt.

Youre way off topic trying to make some point thats irrelevant. And of course you wont answer directly or without making biased excuses.

(Waiting on impressive wins from the third year) 

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5 hours ago, qwelish said:

Im not all over Otzelberger. Im not against Otzelberger. I like Otzelberger more than MM!

Recruiting is not over and the roster is uncertain. I get it.

All im saying is Totz is not the name or resume we were promised. Totz is a 3rd choice just like MM. 

The roster has gone from stable with continuity, to uncertain at the current moment with a bunch of new faces. 

I didnt say MM wasnt mediocre. I didnt say Totz cant coach or recruit. 

Once again just stating facts gets you attacked around here. 

What did you expect after a coaching change?

"Don't underestimate Joe Biden's ability to F@*k things up."

Barack Obama

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20 minutes ago, ph90702 said:

My guess is that David Jenkins goes to Gonzaga.  Oregon is overrecruiting, and it’s being masked by their fluke Sweet 16 run.

There are no "fluke" sweet 16 runs.

The Ducks peaked at the right time. 

"Don't underestimate Joe Biden's ability to F@*k things up."

Barack Obama

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A sit one play one for 2020.

If he plays well he will bolt for the nba. Not that I mind. But its exciting for a year from now if his shooting doesnt dip.

Hopefully Totz turnover system is more like Muss, not like Rice.

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