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bluerules009

How many of you think we need to have a new special counsel to look into corruption in our Justice department and FBI?

Do we need a new special counsel to investigate corruption in the Justice department, use of FISA courts and the FBI?   

25 members have voted

  1. 1. Do we need a new special counsel to investigate corruption in the Justice department, use of FISA courts and the FBI?



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49 minutes ago, Jackrabbit said:

Now that your fantasy is over....there is nothing more to see here....right?   I've not gotten one honest response on this thread.

You've gotton a lot of misdirection, jukes and jives.

Consider this Jack, not answering is an answer.  Think about it.

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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4 minutes ago, retrofade said:

I don't know how I can make this more plain. I personally believed that there was coordination between the Trump campaign and connected parties and Russian interests. 

First of all, I appreciate this.  My point, however, is not so much what you or I believed but rather what this belief caused you and others, including the media and hollywood to do and say during the investigation.  Most of my angst is directed to the media and other celebs but you did share alot of it, daily, on this board.  I guess I should be more forgiving but I don't feel all that bad shoveling the crow your way.

I'm moving on.

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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2 minutes ago, Aslowhiteguy said:

What led you to believe that?  Were you just trusting the media?

A lot of different factors to be honest. Trump's dishonesty as it pertained to Russia and Russian related matters, the lies that he and people connected to him continually told about the same subject. The GOP policy shift to be pro-Russia, especially as it pertained to sanctions and Ukraine. Then there were/are a ton of media reports, and not just US based ones, that made things look like there could very have been coordination. Then the Trump Tower meeting stuff came out, then it came out that the statement they issued about it was actually a lie concocted by Trump himself. I don't watch cable news, and I get my news from a bunch of different sources, so I can't say that I was just simply trusting one media outlet, or one voice.

I still think that a lot of Trump's dealings as they pertain to Russia are shady at best... but as I said from the very beginning, I was going to trust Mueller to perform a fair investigation, and he --- according to Barr --- apparently didn't find anything. It's a good thing for America in the long run, because the alternative would have been absolute chaos. 

You can probably chalk some of it up to maybe a combination of pareidolia and confirmation bias. 

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6 minutes ago, retrofade said:

No, I'm not actually.

Congressional testimony from multiple sources, as well as many news reports from multiple sources, places the origin of "Crossfire Hurricane" --- the Trump/Russia counterintelligence investigation --- began on July 31st, 2016 as a result of information received from Australia re: Papadopoulos. Two agents were dispatched to London to meet with Ambassador Alexander Downer and to have him describe his meeting with Papadopoulos. This is further established by the minority response to the infamous Nunes memo, where they state outright that the investigation began on July 31st and that it was due to Papadopoulos talking about "dirt" on Hillary in the form of emails. They had previously received information about Russian attempts to undermine our election, and were aware of the DNC/DCCC hacks. All of that is well established. If you'd like to dispute it, please let me know what is inaccurate. 

To the best of my knowledge from public reporting and Congressional testimony, no spying of Trump campaign officials took place. The closest would be Flynn being caught talking to Kislyak as a result of Kislyak's communications being monitored, not the reverse. Or I suppose you could argue that the four sub-inquiries --- thought to be thought to be Papadopoulos, Page, Flynn, and Manafort --- that had been started as part of Crossfire Hurricane could count, but there's nothing that would indicate they were actively "spying" on any of them. Further, even if "spying" was taking place, that still requires one to buy into the notion that Crossfire Hurricane started as a way to try and spy on the Trump campaign, which is already established as being incorrect. The only other way we can get to "spying" is Papadopoulos' story about meeting with an FBI informant, which is still not "spying". 

I'll stipulate to the "insurance policy", as there's no real point in arguing it. To my obviously biased view, it looks a lot worse than I think it actually was, but I can see the argument on the other side. 

Finally.... from the IG Report into the Hillary email investigation.

95tEkN3.png

 

So, to sum up. The investigation didn't start because of supposed FISA abuses, but because of Papadopoulos blabbing things to Alexander Downer. There are only very tenuous links to "spying" on the Trump campaign, and it's reaching to define them as such. The IG Report said that the decisions regarding the Hillary email investigation were not affected by bias or other improper considerations. Certain individuals were cited for having political bias, but the decisions made were not.  So you got me on the insurance policy text message, but the rest of what I said is backed up by facts. 

How would you like to attempt to impugn my character next? :P I may have been wrong about what happened regarding Trump/Russia, but I've still done a whole lot of reading on the subject and am very aware of the timeline and context of most things. 

 

Yes, you are wrong. Downer changed his story multiple times. If this allegation is what started the ball rolling(and it isn't) then why wasn't Papadoupolous not interviewed until a year later? It's all about the dossier and it always has been. I can't believe you still believe the Downer thing. 

Dude, I could go into detail into the rest of it. You think I wasn't reading things too? But here's the bottom line. It doesn't matter. It's over. Believe what you want. You've bought into the lies hook, line and sinker. Now I understand it's hard for you to realize you were played but you were. Millions of people were.

I'm not going to impugn your character. You seem like a good person. You just were way off base and got too into this story for too long. 

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1 minute ago, pokebball said:

First of all, I appreciate this.  My point, however, is not so much what you or I believed but rather what this belief caused you and others, including the media and hollywood to do and say during the investigation.  Most of my angst is directed to the media and other celebs but you did share alot of it, daily, on this board.  I guess I should be more forgiving but I don't feel all that bad shoveling the crow your way.

I'm moving on.

I've literally said almost that same exact thing probably 10+ times in the last two days. You're right, I did share a lot of those stores, though not with the frequency that so often gets ascribed to me. I actually made it a point to not post as many articles or whatever a long time ago, and would end up bumping old threads instead of posting new ones. As far as the rest goes, you do you, I'm not looking for forgiveness, because I don't need any... at the end of the day, there was what appeared to be a lot of smoke, but there didn't turn out to be a fire after all.

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5 minutes ago, Rebelbacker said:

Yes, you are wrong. Downer changed his story multiple times. If this allegation is what started the ball rolling(and it isn't) then why wasn't Papadoupolous not interviewed until a year later? It's all about the dossier and it always has been. I can't believe you still believe the Downer thing. 

Dude, I could go into detail into the rest of it. You think I wasn't reading things too? But here's the bottom line. It doesn't matter. It's over. Believe what you want. You've bought into the lies hook, line and sinker. Now I understand it's hard for you to realize you were played but you were. Millions of people were.

I'm not going to impugn your character. You seem like a good person. You just were way off base and got too into this story for too long. 

At the time the investigation started, the FBI did not have possession of the Steele dossier, and it wasn't even close to being completed. As of July 30th, it was 11 pages long, while the final version clocked in at 35. Additionally, it's in the public record that the investigation started in July, 2016. Those are unassailable facts. If it started before that, then the dossier would have been even shorter. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Rebelbacker said:

Yes, you are wrong. Downer changed his story multiple times. If this allegation is what started the ball rolling(and it isn't) then why wasn't Papadoupolous not interviewed until a year later? It's all about the dossier and it always has been. I can't believe you still believe the Downer thing. 

Dude, I could go into detail into the rest of it. You think I wasn't reading things too? But here's the bottom line. It doesn't matter. It's over. Believe what you want. You've bought into the lies hook, line and sinker. Now I understand it's hard for you to realize you were played but you were. Millions of people were.

I'm not going to impugn your character. You seem like a good person. You just were way off base and got too into this story for too long. 

I believe his hate for Trump has clouded his objectivity, but he will never admit it, even to himself. 

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9 minutes ago, retrofade said:

A lot of different factors to be honest. Trump's dishonesty as it pertained to Russia and Russian related matters, the lies that he and people connected to him continually told about the same subject. The GOP policy shift to be pro-Russia, especially as it pertained to sanctions and Ukraine. Then there were/are a ton of media reports, and not just US based ones, that made things look like there could very have been coordination. Then the Trump Tower meeting stuff came out, then it came out that the statement they issued about it was actually a lie concocted by Trump himself. I don't watch cable news, and I get my news from a bunch of different sources, so I can't say that I was just simply trusting one media outlet, or one voice.

I still think that a lot of Trump's dealings as they pertain to Russia are shady at best... but as I said from the very beginning, I was going to trust Mueller to perform a fair investigation, and he --- according to Barr --- apparently didn't find anything. It's a good thing for America in the long run, because the alternative would have been absolute chaos. 

You can probably chalk some of it up to maybe a combination of pareidolia and confirmation bias. 

Honestly, it sounds like you have bought into the tribal bullshit and media lies.  You are blinded by your hatred of all things Trump.  I was the same way with Obama.  I still hate that useless POS. 

"Don't underestimate Joe Biden's ability to F@*k things up."

Barack Obama

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3 hours ago, happycamper said:

Well, yeah. The Trump weasels included "the dude who invented lobbying" and "a traitorous general" and "Michael Cohen". 

Traitorous General? I’m no fan of Flynn but that’s a bit harsh. He’s an idiot for lying but he wasn’t doing anything nefarious.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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4 minutes ago, retrofade said:

At the time the investigation started, the FBI did not have possession of the Steele dossier, and it wasn't even close to being completed. As of July 30th, it was 11 pages long, while the final version clocked in at 35. Additionally, it's in the public record that the investigation started in July, 2016. Those are unassailable facts. If it started before that, then the dossier would have been even shorter. 

 

Ok. Whatever you say. Keep believing the same people that lied to you the last 2 years. 

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Just now, Rebelbacker said:

Ok. Whatever you say. Keep believing the same people that lied to you the last 2 years. 

So what is your contention here? The investigation started earlier? If that's the case, then the Dossier would have been shorter. It only got to 11 pages on July 26th, and he only started putting it together in June. Or are you saying that it started later, which would make even less sense, but the dossier would have been more fleshed out by then. I mean, even your beloved Nunes memo states that the counterintelligence investigation started in "late July 2016", and the minority response to it cements it in as starting on July 31st, 2016. Congressional testimony from multiple DoJ and FBI employees has further cemented the July start date.

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5 minutes ago, retrofade said:

So what is your contention here? The investigation started earlier? If that's the case, then the Dossier would have been shorter. It only got to 11 pages on July 26th, and he only started putting it together in June. Or are you saying that it started later, which would make even less sense, but the dossier would have been more fleshed out by then. I mean, even your beloved Nunes memo states that the counterintelligence investigation started in "late July 2016", and the minority response to it cements it in as starting on July 31st, 2016. Congressional testimony from multiple DoJ and FBI employees has further cemented the July start date.

That's when they say the "official" investigation may have started but it was going on before that. The Downer story was just a justification for it. 

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7 minutes ago, retrofade said:

So what is your contention here? The investigation started earlier? If that's the case, then the Dossier would have been shorter. It only got to 11 pages on July 26th, and he only started putting it together in June. Or are you saying that it started later, which would make even less sense, but the dossier would have been more fleshed out by then. I mean, even your beloved Nunes memo states that the counterintelligence investigation started in "late July 2016", and the minority response to it cements it in as starting on July 31st, 2016. Congressional testimony from multiple DoJ and FBI employees has further cemented the July start date.

BTW, any time you want to make an apology over your comments about Nunes you certainly can. He has been proven to be right. Far more than Swalwell, Schiff or any of the guys you bought into. 

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3 minutes ago, Rebelbacker said:

That's when they say the "official" investigation may have started but it was going on before that. The Downer story was just a justification for it. 

But then it really couldn't have been about the Dossier, because he didn't start on it until something like June, which was in the overlap period of the Free Beacon stopping its funding and Perkins Coie engaging Fusion GPS for opposition research. 

 

4 minutes ago, Rebelbacker said:

BTW, any time you want to make an apology over your comments about Nunes you certainly can. He has been proven to be right. Far more than Swalwell, Schiff or any of the guys you bought into. 

Yeah, not gonna happen. That whole thing was a bullshit circus, and he didn't even read the underlying materials that served as its source. It was a partisan joke, which to be fair is what most things that come out of the House are these days. 

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1 hour ago, NorCalCoug said:

There’s been something...  and that something is that there was no collusion.  That’s pretty significant considering the narrative pushed by Dems and the media the last 2 years.  Not at all surprised you’d be dismissive of that though.

I've posted that a lot of the media has been frankly terrible at covering this whole thing and that impeachment is counterproductive and damaging to democracy (and just stupid... but those first two are more important than just stupid). I do think it gets ridiculous to be totally against an investigation because third parties who you already disagree with are speculating in ways you disagree with. I think that ESPN's coverage of the NCAAT is pretty stupid at times, that doesn't mean I don't like the NCAAT...

30 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

Traitorous General? I’m no fan of Flynn but that’s a bit harsh. He’s an idiot for lying but he wasn’t doing anything nefarious.

I needed something to be a step up in weaselness between "lobbyist inventor" and "Michael Cohen" otherwise the sardonic humor of the statement would fall apart

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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19 minutes ago, happycamper said:

I needed something to be a step up in weaselness between "lobbyist inventor" and "Michael Cohen" otherwise the sardonic humor of the statement would fall apart

Arson, Murder, and Jaywalking

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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4 hours ago, retrofade said:

BUT HER GODDAMNED EMAILS, HAPPY!!!!!

How about lying to the American public about who committed the 9/11 attack in Benghazi to effect the outcome of the election?

Wouldn't a sitting administration lying to stay in power be just as bad as colluding with Russians?

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40 minutes ago, Rebelbacker said:

BTW, any time you want to make an apology over your comments about Nunes you certainly can. He has been proven to be right. Far more than Swalwell, Schiff or any of the guys you bought into. 

Nunes should get the medal of freedom for standing up against the leftists in this country.

Schiff should be prosecuted for treason.

 

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3 minutes ago, bluerules009 said:

How about lying to the American public about who committed the 9/11 attack in Benghazi to effect the outcome of the election?

Wouldn't a sitting administration lying to stay in power be just as bad as colluding with Russians?

Apparently not in some tribes!

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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2 hours ago, happycamper said:

"Completely agreeing with everything Jack is saying" seems to be the only thing you ever consider "honest".

Dude... other people honestly believe things that are different from what you believe. It isn't dishonesty or a conspiracy; it's like people are different or something. 

I agree with the something part. ...all I have been looking for is a nonpartisan take on the issue....and you look foolish for not admitting the obvious. 

  

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