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BSUTOP25

If the Democrats succeed in eliminating the electoral college, I want the country to break up

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So with certain heavy blue states forming a pact to bypass the electoral college and a movement to eliminate it altogether, the push to ensure the president be perpetually elected by Democrat urban centers will drive an irreconcilable wedge.

If the Democrats succeed in this plan to do away with the EC, I want the union to disband and form into smaller regional countries that are connected by cultural and political commonalities. There can be a confederation formed between the regions for free trade and commerce mutual defense, natural resources, etc. but each should be able to decide their own social and economic policy.

To be honest, it’s getting to the point where I don’t consider people like AOC, Liz Warren, Ilhan Omar, Eric Swalwell, and Donald Trump as my fellow countrymen anymore. My philosophy on law, justice, humanity, and spirituality is so far apart from theirs that I don’t see much of a common bond or reason to keep this thing going. 

In an ideal world, we could shake hands and mutually agree to separate into smaller countries with treaties and agreements that would ensure peace and tranquility. I don’t know if that’s possible with this country but it’s been done before in others. 

https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/03/19/battenfeld-warrens-attack-on-electoral-college-pandering-at-its-worst/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_content=fb-bostonherald

https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/03/19/baker-opposes-mass-deal-to-bypass-electoral-college/?utm_content=fb-bostonherald&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=facebook.com

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16 minutes ago, sebasour said:

How dare the people of California demand that their votes be counted equally to those in Wyoming 

How dare anyone suggest separation of powers, checks and balances, and constraints on government are a good thing. 

And under my proposal, Californians would be far happier anyway as they wouldn’t have to worry about dealing with those people they loathe in Wyoming. 

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It's a stupid boutique issue that isn't actually going to change anything, and will only serve to galvanize support on the opposite side. It's absolutely stupid for them to be making such a big deal about this, especially since it would take a Constitutional Amendment for it to change, which is a non-starter. 

I personally think that the states should all switch to the method that Maine and Nebraska use --- two to the popular vote winner in the state, and the rest by Congressional district.

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43 minutes ago, BSUTOP25 said:

So with certain heavy blue states forming a pact to bypass the electoral college and a movement to eliminate it altogether, the push to ensure the president be perpetually elected by Democrat urban centers will drive an irreconcilable wedge.

If the Democrats succeed in this plan to do away with the EC, I want the union to disband and form into smaller regional countries that are connected by cultural and political commonalities. There can be a confederation formed between the regions for free trade and commerce mutual defense, natural resources, etc. but each should be able to decide their own social and economic policy.

To be honest, it’s getting to the point where I don’t consider people like AOC, Liz Warren, Ilhan Omar, Eric Swalwell, and Donald Trump as my fellow countrymen anymore. My philosophy on law, justice, humanity, and spirituality is so far apart from theirs that I don’t see much of a common bond or reason to keep this thing going. 

In an ideal world, we could shake hands and mutually agree to separate into smaller countries with treaties and agreements that would ensure peace and tranquility. I don’t know if that’s possible with this country but it’s been done before in others. 

https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/03/19/battenfeld-warrens-attack-on-electoral-college-pandering-at-its-worst/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_content=fb-bostonherald

https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/03/19/baker-opposes-mass-deal-to-bypass-electoral-college/?utm_content=fb-bostonherald&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=facebook.com

Large states vs small states and checking the power of both have been at the heart of the USA and its government since the beginning. That's why we have a house (large states) and a senate (small states). The electoral college isn't perfect, but it is a vital part of the checks and balances on power. 

There are only two things I can't stand in this world: people who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch. 

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Why any small state would agree to give up their rights, as a state, is kind of mind boggling to me.  This "pact" I'm hearing about is more of a handshake than it is a legally binding arrangement right?

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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I think the large states have a legitimate gripe that the small states have an unbalanced amount of power when it comes to the presidential elections. I don't think the doing away with the EC is the way to change it though. I think we need to look at the cap on reps in the house, as weve discussed on here before. That would give the larger states more EC votes aw well.

OF course I don't think its fair that in reality the presidential election is decided by a handful of states like Florida and Ohio since we know where states like California and Wyoming are going to vote years before the election so maybe a straight up popular vote would make me feel like my vote actually matters because now it feels like the only votes that matter are in the swing states.

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21 minutes ago, retrofade said:

It's a stupid boutique issue that isn't actually going to change anything, and will only serve to galvanize support on the opposite side. It's absolutely stupid for them to be making such a big deal about this, especially since it would take a Constitutional Amendment for it to change, which is a non-starter. 

I personally think that the states should all switch to the method that Maine and Nebraska use --- two to the popular vote winner in the state, and the rest by Congressional district.

Ding ding ding!  We have a winner. 

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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2 minutes ago, pokebball said:

Why any small state would agree to give up their rights, as a state, is kind of mind boggling to me.  This "pact" I'm hearing about is more of a handshake than it is a legally binding arrangement right?

I think it kicks in when the required number of EC votes sign onto it. It wouldn't take every state. I'm not sure on the specifics but that was my understanding.

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The electoral college debate right now has nothing to do with principle and everything to do with partisan politics, both nationally and on this board. The electoral college currently benefits conservative ideology, and thus the GOP, nationally. So Democrats want to kill it, and Republicans want it to stick around. Simple as that.

When we all come to accept that the electoral college is yet another front in the culture wars, and has nothing to do with governance, we will start having more productive conversations about it. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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If I were the Democrats I'd be looking at trying to get a national voting rights standard pushed in way before this.  Easy to frame it as voting security too. 

 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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4 minutes ago, happycamper said:

If I were the Democrats I'd be looking at trying to get a national voting rights standard pushed in way before this.  Easy to frame it as voting security too. 

 

We all need this....but as usual, a law would be drafted to benefit one side.

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I don't really have a problem with the electoral college as it reflects the federal system.  The problem is we have given too much power to the president.  There seems to be a lot of silliness going on with some of these Democratic candidates right now.  

What these people should be talking about is getting rid of the unconstitutional legislative filibuster and adding DC and Puerto Rico as states the next time they have a chance.  Instead they are talking about silliness that will likely never take place at the federal level simply because people don't know any better.

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2 minutes ago, Akkula said:

I don't really have a problem with the electoral college as it reflects the federal system.  The problem is we have given too much power to the president.  There seems to be a lot of silliness going on with some of these Democratic candidates right now.  

What these people should be talking about is getting rid of the unconstitutional legislative filibuster and adding DC and Puerto Rico as states the next time they have a chance.  Instead they are talking about silliness that will likely never take place at the federal level simply because people don't know any better.

Fair post.  I'm not sure PR wants in and I think that's important to consider.

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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2 minutes ago, Akkula said:

I don't really have a problem with the electoral college as it reflects the federal system.  The problem is we have given too much power to the president.  There seems to be a lot of silliness going on with some of these Democratic candidates right now.  

What these people should be talking about is getting rid of the unconstitutional legislative filibuster and adding DC and Puerto Rico as states the next time they have a chance.  Instead they are talking about silliness that will likely never take place at the federal level simply because people don't know any better.

Washington DC should be absorbed by Virginia, with the exception of the White House & Capitol building. No need to make DC a State. 

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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1 minute ago, pokebball said:

Fair post.  I'm not sure PR wants in and I think that's important to consider.

PR should be given an option for either statehood or independence.  The current model is unsustainable for them. 

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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2 minutes ago, mugtang said:

Washington DC should be absorbed by Virginia, with the exception of the White House & Capitol building. No need to make DC a State. 

It is a Trumpian power move albeit legal and constitutional, my friend!  More people than Wyoming!  Democrats need to be talking about things that can actually happen than the nonsense they are spending their time on.  It is ridiculous all of these Democrats are in favor of the filibuster.  They are guaranteeing everything they say during the campaign is hot air that will never happen.

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2 minutes ago, Akkula said:

It is a Trumpian power move albeit legal and constitutional, my friend!  More people than Wyoming!  Democrats need to be talking about things that can actually happen than the nonsense they are spending their time on.  It is ridiculous all of these Democrats are in favor of the filibuster.  They are guaranteeing everything they say during the campaign is hot air that will never happen.

Oh I get your logic and I agree that the people of DC deserve representation.  I just disagree with how you want to go about it :) 

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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