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ph90702

UNLV Transfers - It’s a shitshow

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Just now, TheSanDiegan said:

I would counter by suggesting this was simply a different philosophy/approach to course correction... In business, I am a big adherent of the philosophy that small victories lead to big success - you eat the elephant one bite at a time, and as such, change - real change - takes time.

Alternatively, approaches based on 'get rich quick' schemes are risk-intensive, as while they dangle the carrot of immediate returns, they are less likely to succeed. 

I know it's not worth much, but if I was in your guys' shoes I would have wanted to give Marv another year.

Another reason for this is the message it sends to possible future HCs - that they will have unrealistic expectations placed upon them and will not be given enough time to build the program in their image. IMO you guys are not helping yourselves in this regard, as this perception (or even the risk of it) could make it more difficult to land a quality HC moving forward, at least if he has other prospects to consider.

HC’s don’t care about what happened to previous HC’s. They care about facilities and $$$ you are offering them and their assistants. 

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5 minutes ago, TheSanDiegan said:

I would counter by suggesting this was simply a different philosophy/approach to course correction... In business, I am a big adherent of the philosophy that small victories lead to big success - you eat the elephant one bite at a time, and as such, change - real change - takes time.

Alternatively, approaches based on 'get rich quick' schemes are risk-intensive, as while they dangle the carrot of immediate returns, they are less likely to succeed. 

I know it's not worth much, but if I was in your guys' shoes I would have wanted to give Marv another year.

Another reason for this is the message it sends to possible future HCs - that they will have unrealistic expectations placed upon them and will not be given enough time to build the program in their image. IMO you guys are not helping yourselves in this regard, as this perception (or even the risk of it) could make it more difficult to land a quality HC moving forward, at least if he has other prospects to consider.

If you’re into business you know as well that if you’re trying to kill off something you don’t allow it to grow.

 

This group never ever supported Menzies, they needed the right time to do what they wanted. They had nada to do with that hiring. They never advertised Rebel basketball, they never tried to sell it even with the season last year. They knew MM even with his educational masters was stuck with the infatuation of working at his old school. He didn’t think about the next set of people moving in and what they may want to take for credit in their careers. 

They are looking to brand themselves 

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2 minutes ago, Rosegreen said:

HC’s don’t care about what happened to previous HC’s. They care about facilities and $$$ you are offering them and their assistants. 

No, but they care about their brand equity. And you guys have created an organizational culture with your unrealistic expectations for immediate returns that presents a potential threat to a coach's carefully cultivated brand.

Let's look at Marv - how many years did he log in Las Cruces building a resume of a 'proven winner?' And now potential employers must factor into the calculus the possibility that he must have been so bad at UNLV he didn't even deserve a fair shake. 

Do you think his truncated stint at UNLV did his career any favors? 

Other HCs see the way the administration handles their hires, and tbh, recent history as such does not reflect well on you guys.

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5 minutes ago, TheSanDiegan said:

Damn.

Watch the Rebels fans have all kinds of sympathy for this mystery new coach. I bet he’s not going to be held to the same standards as Menzie. Will Rebels even win 10 games next year? I can’t see them scheduling giants for money (actually I can because they’ve been doing whorish things lately) sigh... what a catch ...

if they schedule easy wins and lose they are damned (no attendence) if they schedule dukes and Indiana’s lmao they will get desecrated.... lmao lmao lmao they should have just hired some of these posters to work in the AD

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1 minute ago, PlayersinVegas said:

Watch the Rebels fans have all kinds of sympathy for this mystery new coach. I bet he’s not going to be held to the same standards as Menzie. Will Rebels even win 10 games next year? I can’t see them scheduling giants for money (actually I can because they’ve been doing whorish things lately) sigh... what a catch ...

if they schedule easy wins and lose they are damned (no attendence) if they schedule dukes and Indiana’s lmao they will get desecrated.... lmao lmao lmao they should have just hired some of these posters to work in the AD

"The best way to build a skyscraper is to construct the first half-dozen floors, then raze it to the ground and start all over," said nobody ever.

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5 minutes ago, Rosegreen said:

No, he really didn’t construct the roster well. Had walkons starting, too many guys sitting on the bench, too many projects that were going to take 3-4 years. There wasn’t any energy or urgency to win from Marv. He just can’t beat good teams, only bad. Scheduled soft. 

I could go on and on but ultimately he had to go given the attendance woes. 

The argument that MM was fired too early, is valid, IMO.  OTOH, it was clear that Marv was not the coach to get you to the Dance on a consistent basis.  The fans were losing interest and DRF never hired the guy in the first place.  She did what she thought was best for the program.  

Now DRF is in a position where she has to make her very first, MBB, HC hire and she has to hit a homerun.    

The fans and, perhaps boosters, want and expect a big name hire. If she makes a Craig Smith type of hire she will be widely criticized.  To keep everyone happy, she has to land the big fish that everyone believes will take them to the promised land quickly, and that is highly unlikely.   

She also is dealing with the possibility that vegas has developed a reputation for firing coaches too soon.   Some guys might be a bit leery, particularly if they look at vegas and see a 3 year rebuild.  

If Porter Moser, or someone similar, is hired, there will be a Fire XXX thread before he has his press conference.  

I do not envy DRF.  But I do wish her luck. 

"Don't underestimate Joe Biden's ability to F@*k things up."

Barack Obama

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I will say remember last year the entire Pittsburgh roster said they were transferring. They hire Jeff Capel and most decide not to transfer. So just because these guys are putting name in portal doesn’t mean they are gone.

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3 minutes ago, Jaredcg said:

I will say remember last year the entire Pittsburgh roster said they were transferring. They hire Jeff Capel and most decide not to transfer. So just because these guys are putting name in portal doesn’t mean they are gone.

This is true.

 

and Rebels still look competitive with Hardy Diong Blair Beck Hamilton at least you have an idea it’d be tragic if he was left with just Hardy and Diong or Hardy and Blair lmao....

 

its crazy tambwe came in un ranked and now posters are saying he could be paid some day to hoop. Crazy!

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1 hour ago, TrueAg said:

Interesting to read all the takes on Menzies now that he is gone. USU fans have been familiar with Menzies for more than a decade now and I'm not seeing the same things Rebels fans are. The Rebels were in poor shape when he took over and he was charged with re-building the entire thing while offering some stability for once. They were picked 6th in the preseason this year and finished 5th (with a record tied for 4th) which would indicate they outperformed predictions right? Nope. As usual, not good enough for UNLV.

At NMSU, Menzies had a similar task - come in and clean the absolute mess that Reggie Theus had left behind. Theus may have left with a championship in his final year but he had that program in a ton of hot water and loaded with a roster full of criminals. Menzies not only cleaned up the mess but continued a string of championships during his stay. He landed several top notch recruits and showed that talented kids would come to play for him, even in Las Cruces. That program is still largely a product of what Menzies did during his nine years there.

Sometimes I think that Rebel fans and boosters not only have their 1990 blinders on but they reflect a bit of the Vegas lifestyle of wanting it all and wanting it now. They grow impatient because they see what Nevada is doing or what SDSU has been doing or what USU did in a single season with a new coach and they think they deserve better because of some notion that they must live up to the glory days of yesteryear. Until fans and boosters accept that this is not the Big West anymore and UNLV will not dominate a conference in that fashion ever again I think they'll continue to go through this cycle of disappointment that their coach and program are not living up to some unattainable standard.

UNLV will be good and perhaps even great again, everything is cyclical. When it happens it will almost certainly not last decades so will Rebel fans be able to accept that? or will it be right back to the revolving turnstile at head coach?

This is probably the best post I’ve read on this site all year! 😃

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37 minutes ago, TheSanDiegan said:

No, but they care about their brand equity. And you guys have created an organizational culture with your unrealistic expectations for immediate returns that presents a potential threat to a coach's carefully cultivated brand.

Let's look at Marv - how many years did he log in Las Cruces building a resume of a 'proven winner?' And now potential employers must factor into the calculus the possibility that he must have been so bad at UNLV he didn't even deserve a fair shake. 

Do you think his truncated stint at UNLV did his career any favors? 

Other HCs see the way the administration handles their hires, and tbh, recent history as such does not reflect well on you guys.

This why I think we will have to overpay to get a strong coach.  We supposedly have up to $2.8 million per year to spend.  If somebody is worth $2 million per year, we may have to pay $2.8 million per year to offset the negative equity we have.

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1 hour ago, TrueAg said:

Interesting to read all the takes on Menzies now that he is gone. USU fans have been familiar with Menzies for more than a decade now and I'm not seeing the same things Rebels fans are. The Rebels were in poor shape when he took over and he was charged with re-building the entire thing while offering some stability for once. They were picked 6th in the preseason this year and finished 5th (with a record tied for 4th) which would indicate they outperformed predictions right? Nope. As usual, not good enough for UNLV.

At NMSU, Menzies had a similar task - come in and clean the absolute mess that Reggie Theus had left behind. Theus may have left with a championship in his final year but he had that program in a ton of hot water and loaded with a roster full of criminals. Menzies not only cleaned up the mess but continued a string of championships during his stay. He landed several top notch recruits and showed that talented kids would come to play for him, even in Las Cruces. That program is still largely a product of what Menzies did during his nine years there.

Sometimes I think that Rebel fans and boosters not only have their 1990 blinders on but they reflect a bit of the Vegas lifestyle of wanting it all and wanting it now. They grow impatient because they see what Nevada is doing or what SDSU has been doing or what USU did in a single season with a new coach and they think they deserve better because of some notion that they must live up to the glory days of yesteryear. Until fans and boosters accept that this is not the Big West anymore and UNLV will not dominate a conference in that fashion ever again I think they'll continue to go through this cycle of disappointment that their coach and program are not living up to some unattainable standard.

UNLV will be good and perhaps even great again, everything is cyclical. When it happens it will almost certainly not last decades so will Rebel fans be able to accept that? or will it be right back to the revolving turnstile at head coach?

 

Utah State, Fresno, SJSU, UNLV, Nevada, SDSU and Boise?   Looks like the Big West to me.

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2 minutes ago, ph90702 said:

This why I think we will have to overpay to get a strong coach.  We supposedly have up to $2.8 million per year to spend.  If somebody is worth $2 million per year, we may have to pay $2.8 million per year to offset the negative equity we have.

I get that. And while it makes sense, I think it also introduces the risk of onboarding a coach who is a short-term-dollars first guy - IMO UNLV needs a long-term hire committed to the long-term success of the program, not a one-and-done, which I fear you will court with the overpay approach. I hope I'm wrong.

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I like Menzies and he does things the right way. But when you look at his recruiting and the projects he brings in, he is looking to build a good mid-major team. UNLV should not be considered a mid-major. The brand, the city, and the facilities scream that UNLV should be different, whether they deserve to be or not. Given how pivotal of a time it is to define what the UNLV brand is with pro-sports, all new facilities for the two power sports, and the new stadium, DRF needs to get this right and get it done quickly.

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23 minutes ago, mundyc3 said:

I like Menzies and he does things the right way. But when you look at his recruiting and the projects he brings in, he is looking to build a good mid-major team. UNLV should not be considered a mid-major. The brand, the city, and the facilities scream that UNLV should be different, whether they deserve to be or not. Given how pivotal of a time it is to define what the UNLV brand is with pro-sports, all new facilities for the two power sports, and the new stadium, DRF needs to get this right and get it done quickly.

Nothing about UNLV screams they should be different anymore. Like most midmajors you had a good run and are trying to recapture it. Gonzaga is the only one in this P5 era that is different. So much about college basketball has changed since 80s and early 90s. 

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37 minutes ago, mundyc3 said:

I like Menzies and he does things the right way. But when you look at his recruiting and the projects he brings in, he is looking to build a good mid-major team. UNLV should not be considered a mid-major. The brand, the city, and the facilities scream that UNLV should be different, whether they deserve to be or not. Given how pivotal of a time it is to define what the UNLV brand is with pro-sports, all new facilities for the two power sports, and the new stadium, DRF needs to get this right and get it done quickly.

...and therein lies the crux of your problem. :(

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18 hours ago, slappy said:

Vegas doesn’t need to hire an up and comer.  MM was an up and comer and didn’t know how to recruit to Vegas.  I would get a proven winner that understands the recruiting circles well.  Not a small time winner.  Just my 2 cents.  Good luck in your coaching search.  I have a lot of confidence this will go better.  I know improvement on MM isn’t saying much but still.  Things will be looking up shortly. 

 

17 hours ago, ph90702 said:

Marvin Menzies wasn’t an up and comer.

 

17 hours ago, rebelcuff said:

You are right he was a never was.

Yeah, he was a terrible hire. He had a long history of very average results, despite having advantages over the vast majority of the conference. 

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15 minutes ago, TheSanDiegan said:

...and therein lies the crux of your problem. :(

And they just don't get it.  

A 30 y/o banner doesn't matter to anyone, outside of Las Vegas.  That NC and Tark's incredible run happened well before their recruits were even born. 

Contrary to the narrative, there is nothing unique and special about UNLV.  They are just another struggling, mid-major program in need of a coach.

They do have some nice facilities, but nothing spectacular.

UNLV is not the sleeping giant their fans try to pretend they are.  A rebuild there will take as long as it does anywhere else. 

Their delusional fan base may actually be detrimental to the coaching search.

None of the above will matter if they get the right guy, household name or not.   

"Don't underestimate Joe Biden's ability to F@*k things up."

Barack Obama

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