Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

UNLV2001

#4 SDSU VS #5 UNLV - MWC Tournament

Recommended Posts

11 minutes ago, BestintheWest said:

 

Except he did sign JC players and transfers his 1st season, bud.

He had 3 JC players and 2 transfers. 3 "returners" and 5 freshman...

 

I'm not missing the point. You can't have a loaded roster of 4-star players. What good does it do? Those 3 freshmen aren't holding the program back.

The thing that held the program back was recruiting for year 1.

Players from year 1 to year 2....Mooring/Clyburn/Dembele

Players year 2 to year 3....Juiston, Clyburn, Beck, Hardy, Diong.

Juiston got injured. Beck became diva with no work ethic.

 

The roster has never been saddled. We lost 8 players after year 1. 4 players after year 2.

 

The problem has always been year 1. It +++++ed the roster and recruiting, but never locked up guys and holding spots that could be taken by superior players.

Clyburn is still a product of year 1. You think MM recruits him in the exact same state we are in now if Clyburn was in JC now??? LOL +++++ no.

 

Why cant you have a loaded roster? That makes zero sense. Also, when your team wins 17 games for the season, you look silly arguing that the talent level could not be improved. Especially when youre simultaneously trying to argue that quality depth was an issue due to injuries. Already been down this road. Plus, I never said recruit 4 stars to sit on the bench, although the best programs do this, but you cant have so much dead weight that you end up playing multiple walk-ons.

Youre also setting up straw men and arguing against them. I never said anything about 4 stars or recruiting Clyburn. 

There is no doubt that better players holding those scholarships benefits the team and program. 

Why sign 4 year guys when you have no time to evaluate the players? He signed several guys having never even seen them play.

That first class should have been comprised almost entirely of JC's and transfers. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, BestintheWest said:

Muss plays 6 players.

 

Is he not the worlds greatest coach according some here? Or he just has 6 good players?

 

He has a 5-star McDonalds AA on his roster who barely plays....and you think 3 dudes are holding us back as a program because they hold a scholly.

Muss doesn’t recruit guys to ride the bench for 3 years, so he can boast he’s got program players. We got guys on the roster that didn’t play basketball 5-6 years ago. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, BestintheWest said:

He has a 5-star McDonalds AA on his roster who barely plays....and you think 3 dudes are holding us back as a program because they hold a scholly.

You just argued that good teams do not have 4 and 5 star players sitting the bench. 

Then your very next post you bring up a team in the same conference doing just that, full of transfers, who was top 10 for most of the season and has won the MWC 3 straight seasons.

Youre not only arguing both sides, youre actually arguing against your own points. 

Relax, dude.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not only that, but those 3 players didnt even play during an 11 win season. 

There is no doubt that these scholarships should have gone to transfers and Jucos to give the staff more time to evaluate and recruit meaningful program players.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, qwelish said:

Why cant you have a loaded roster? That makes zero sense. Also, when your team wins 17 wins for the season, you look silly arguing that the talent level could not be improved. Especially when youre simultaneously trying to argue that quality depth was an issue due to injuries. Already been down this road. Plus, I never said recruit 4 stars to sit on the bench, although the best programs do this, but you cant have so much dead weight that you end up playing multiple walk-ons.

Youre also setting up straw men and arguing against them. I never said anything about 4 stars or recruiting Clyburn. 

There is no doubt that better players holding those scholarships benefits the team and program. 

Why sign 4 year guys when you have no time to evaluate the players? He signed several guys having never even seen them play.

That first class should have been comprised almost entirely of JC's and transfers.

This is getting all over the place. So back to the original point. Year 1 was the problem regardless. Even if you load it with JC/transfers and zero freshmen we are in same situation we are in now. Those quick fixes were to fill in gap. There is a reason we are just barely now this offseason starting to see the continuity...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

UNLV release on the MWCT loss to SDSU - No news on the for sure firing of Menzies :shrug:

THE TURNING POINT: The game was tied at 47 with four minutes to play, then with UNLV trailing 52-49 with about two minutes to go, Blair fouled Watson on a long 3-pointer pump fake. Watson made all three free throws to create enough separation down the stretch.

BACK AND FORTH: There were eight lead changes and eight ties throughout the game.

SEASON LOWS: UNLV shot a season-low 32.3 percent from the field (20 of 62), while SDSU shot a UNLV-opponent season-low 29.8 percent (17 of 57).

3-POINT STRUGGLES: Both teams shot poorly from long distance. UNLV managed just 4 of 22 (18.2 percent), missing on its first 11 attempts, while the Aztecs were 5 of 23 (21.7 percent).

NOTES: 
UNLV entered the tournament by winning five of its last seven regular-season games.
- SDSU won all three meetings against UNLV this season.
- UNLV has made at least one 3-pointer in a NCAA-record 1,070 straight games.
- UNLV finished tied for fourth in the MW this season, its highest league finish in five years.
- UNLV's 11 MW wins during the regular season were its most in eight years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, qwelish said:

You just argued that good teams do not have 4 and 5 star players sitting the bench. 

Then your very next post you bring up a team in the same conference doing just that, full of transfers, who was top 10 for most of the season and has won the MWC 3 straight seasons.

Youre not only arguing both sides, youre actually arguing against your own points. 

Relax, dude.

That's not my argument. My argument is majority of programs don't have more than 10 quality basketball player. #12 and 13 are usually told they never will probably break rotation or play.

Hence...even a 5-star as like 7th man in rotation...never getting much time. Why would a 4-star sitting 11th on Reno's depth chart go there?

 

You're not seeing what I'm writing or understanding I guess..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The loss yesterday to SDSU was very disappointing. Felt bad for the guys. SDSU played bad enough but we just couldn't get the ball in the hole. UNLV played good D but just couldn't put it together. I guess though in the scheme of things it probably doesn't matter much.  Reno would have curb stomped us again and I didn't really want to sit through that inside the T&M. That shit hurts. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, qwelish said:

They are not a younger team. They have 5 players that have been in the program for 3 years including Merrill and Brito. They have another 3 or 4 that have been in the program for 2. 

USU has had fantastic continuity with their roster. The new coach simply plugged in an unheard of hidden gem of a freshman center and it was off to the races. 

USU went 17-17 and 8-10 in the MWC last year. Its the exact same model UNLV is on right now. 

I’m not very good with this type of stuff so my numbers could be completely wrong but it looks like freshman and sophomores make up 56.4% of the minutes of the aggies roster. 

Freshman and sophomore make up 51.8% of the minutes of the unlv roster. 

thats where I’m coming from with that comment, for what it’s worth. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, BestintheWest said:

This is getting all over the place. So back to the original point. Year 1 was the problem regardless. Even if you load it with JC/transfers and zero freshmen we are in same situation we are in now. Those quick fixes were to fill in gap. There is a reason we are just barely now this offseason starting to see the continuity...

 

1 minute ago, BestintheWest said:

That's not my argument. My argument is majority of programs don't have more than 10 quality basketball player. #12 and 13 are usually told they never will probably break rotation or play.

Hence...even a 5-star as like 7th man in rotation...never getting much time. Why would a 4-star sitting 11th on Reno's depth chart go there?

 

You're not seeing what I'm writing or understanding I guess..

UNLV does not have even 5 quality basketball players and the record and blowouts reflect that.

Basic gist of the disagreement is that we disagree that those 4 year signings in year one are still affecting the program today. You say nay, I say yes way!

I think the argument is lost when the team wins 17 games in one of the worst conferences, and then injuries and poor recruiting leads you to playing 3 walkons for major chunks throughout the year.

The overall talent level of the team suffered and dead weight, to me, was the cause. 

FYI.. If you look at reno's transfers, they actually have 4-star guys as the 11th man. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Cheek Patch said:

I’m not very good with this type of stuff so my numbers could be completely wrong but it looks like freshman and sophomores make up 56.4% of the minutes of the aggies roster. 

Freshman and sophomore make up 51.8% of the minutes of the unlv roster. 

thats where I’m coming from with that comment, for what it’s worth. 

 

Some of their freshmen are redshirt freshmen who play major minutes. 

Look at the top of the roster in minutes and then look at when they entered the program. 

Taylor, Merrill, Brito, Brown Jr, Porter all have been in the program for more than a year, most have been there 3 years.

That is 5 of the top 7 producing players. 

Continuity matters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, qwelish said:

 

UNLV does not have even 5 quality basketball players and the record and blowouts reflect that.

Basic gist of the disagreement is that we disagree that those 4 year signings in year one are still affecting the program today. You say nay, I say yes way!

I think the argument is lost when the team wins 17 games in one of the worst conferences, and then injuries and poor recruiting leads you to playing 3 walkons for major chunks throughout the year.

The overall talent level of the team suffered and dead weight, to me, was the cause. 

FYI.. If you look at reno's transfers, they actually have 4-star guys as the 11th man. 

Boise won 13 games. They don't have 5 quality basketball players?

 

 

The argument is not lost when those scholarships can be opened up that easily. Just as they have been the last 3 years.

 

Saying those players are strangle holding the program just doesn't make sense. We've moved on from plenty of players in Menzies era. The problem has always been the state of the program, year one urgency to fill roster and then MM recruiting philosophy.

Menzies doesn't mind transfers or 5-star plug and plays, but his core system has always been the same mold of Kruger/Fisher types. 4 year hard nosed players that get better each year. Fill that with a transfer and/or elite recruit here and there.

 

Problem is MM doesn't have time with this fan base.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, qwelish said:

Some of their freshmen are redshirt freshmen who play major minutes. 

Look at the top of the roster in minutes and then look at when they entered the program. 

Taylor, Merrill, Brito, Brown Jr, Porter all have been in the program for more than a year, most have been there 3 years.

That is 5 of the top 7 producing players. 

Continuity matters.

I don’t disagree. Continuity does matter,  it’s critical. but do you think they would be in the same position if they had the same coach as last year?

For the record I really don’t care who the coach is. I just want to win again. It’s been a half dozen years of pure misery. If that’s marv great, keep him I don’t care I just want to be excited for rebel basketball again and I have serious doubts he can do it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, BestintheWest said:

Boise won 13 games. They don't have 5 quality basketball players? I fail to see how this is relevant and equates basically to you moving the goal post. 

  

 

The argument is not lost when those scholarships can be opened up that easily. Just as they have been the last 3 years. Have you ever heard of the APR? And even if what you say is true, why hasnt this been done? No one left last year.

 

Saying those players are strangle holding the program just doesn't make sense. We've moved on from plenty of players in Menzies era. The problem has always been the state of the program, year one urgency to fill roster and then MM recruiting philosophy. This has been my entire point. The recruiting philosophy to put freshmen, instead of JUCO and Transfer players has saddled the roster up til now. You said you disagreed, now its your position?

 

Menzies doesn't mind transfers or 5-star plug and plays, but his core system has always been the same mold of Kruger/Fisher types. 4 year hard nosed players that get better each year. Fill that with a transfer and/or elite recruit here and there. "The problem has always been the state of the program, year one urgency to fill roster and then MM recruiting philosophy."   HELLOOOOOOO!!!???

 

Problem is MM doesn't have time with this fan base. I agree, but his errors with filling rosters year 1 speaks to his lack of urgency to build fast. He has assumed he'd get 5 years no matter what. Ive argued here from day one that he might be able to get it done, but he will run out of time if he does not speed up his recruiting philosophy to win enough to keep the job. And here we are!

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Cheek Patch said:

I don’t disagree. Continuity does matter,  it’s critical. but do you think they would be in the same position if they had the same coach as last year?

For the record I really don’t care who the coach is. I just want to win again. It’s been a half dozen years of pure misery. If that’s marv great, keep him I don’t care I just want to be excited for rebel basketball again and I have serious doubts he can do it

There would have been improvement just through the continuity. Merrill is a three year player. The players I mentioned before have all played their entire careers together for usu. 

I think the coaching is being overrated. Its a mirror image of the Kruger/Rice situation. Rice and Smith were both left with very experienced players on the upper end of the roster. 

There is no telling if the same or another coach produces the same or similar results because the new coach brought Neimas Queta and Brock Miller in as freshmen this year and they have had immediate impacts as two of the better players on the team. They were perfect compliments to the players and continuity coming back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, qwelish said:
16 minutes ago, BestintheWest said:

Boise won 13 games. They don't have 5 quality basketball players? I fail to see how this is relevant and equates basically to you moving the goal post. 

 

You said our record states we do not have 5 quality basketball players

  

 

The argument is not lost when those scholarships can be opened up that easily. Just as they have been the last 3 years. Have you ever heard of the APR? And even if what you say is true, why hasnt this been done? No one left last year.

 

Saying those players are strangle holding the program just doesn't make sense. We've moved on from plenty of players in Menzies era. The problem has always been the state of the program, year one urgency to fill roster and then MM recruiting philosophy. This has been my entire point. The recruiting philosophy to put freshmen, instead of JUCO and Transfer players has saddled the roster up til now. You said you disagreed, now its your position?

 

Menzies doesn't mind transfers or 5-star plug and plays, but his core system has always been the same mold of Kruger/Fisher types. 4 year hard nosed players that get better each year. Fill that with a transfer and/or elite recruit here and there. "The problem has always been the state of the program, year one urgency to fill roster and then MM recruiting philosophy."   HELLOOOOOOO!!!???

 

Problem is MM doesn't have time with this fan base. I agree, but his errors with filling rosters year 1 speaks to his lack of urgency to build fast. He has assumed he'd get 5 years no matter what. Ive argued here from day one that he might be able to get it done, but he will run out of time if he does not speed up his recruiting philosophy to win enough to keep the job. And here we are!

 

 

 

 

Look I don't have all day to debate basically nonsense so this will be my last for now.

Boise has 5 quality basketball players. They had 13 wins. UNLV has 4 to me. With potential to have 7 or 8 by next season if progression happens. Agree to disagree. Players get better.

 

Anthony Johnson and Brandon McCoy both left the program.

 

I disagree that it SADDLES up roster. Roster can be changed. Ask Zion Morgan, Johnson, Dwayne Morgan, Baxter...on and on...

 

HELLO? yes, my point has been this all along.

 

 

Obviously stating the obvious. Most outsiders with a brain would think it would take time to build a program from scratch. MM clearly thought that. I clearly think that. Rice fanboys and average UNLV fan...not so much.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, BestintheWest said:

 

Look I don't have all day to debate basically nonsense so this will be my last for now.

Boise has 5 quality basketball players. They had 13 wins. UNLV has 4 to me. With potential to have 7 or 8 by next season if progression happens. Agree to disagree. Players get better.

 

Anthony Johnson and Brandon McCoy both left the program.

 

I disagree that it SADDLES up roster. Roster can be changed. Ask Zion Morgan, Johnson, Dwayne Morgan, Baxter...on and on...

 

HELLO? yes, my point has been this all along.

 

 

Obviously stating the obvious. Most outsiders with a brain would think it would take time to build a program from scratch. MM clearly thought that. I clearly think that. Rice fanboys and average UNLV fan...not so much.

 

 

Roster cannot be changed endlessly every year. You still have not addressed the APR situation which makes this statement you keep making completely false.

If UNLV only has 4 quality players, finished with 17 wins and played 3 walkons major time this year. You actually are arguing that the roster was saddled. 

Youre just refusing to concede it. 

No further debate is necessary. 

Enjoy your day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, qwelish said:

Roster cannot be changed endlessly every year. You still have not addressed the APR situation which makes this statement you keep making completely false.

If UNLV only has 4 quality players, finished with 17 wins and played 3 walkons major time this year. You actually are arguing that the roster was saddled. 

Youre just refusing to concede it. 

No further debate is necessary. 

Enjoy your day.

 

We have guys who have been here for 3 years...the ones you question why they are. That helps APR. There you go?

Again, what 3rd walkon? I already addressed the other 2 (which was mostly only 1...Juiston,Dembele and Diong all hurt forced Coleman in), but keep calling them walkons. There is a reason they get run over the others. Also

I never argued the roster is saddled...you are. I think it relies too much on youth, inexperience and inferior senior talent. I don't think Menzies was saddled. He chose this team. The Juiston injury really killed this team.

Clyburn made strides, but he's not a top senior. Robotham was what he is. An Akron transfer...not NC State.

Diong, JTT, Ntambwe, Hardy, Hamilton, Woodbury...young. Inexperienced. High upsides, but not there.

Juiston injured.

I just named 9 players. We don't go deeper than that. Those bottom 3 didn't hurt this season. The entire makeup of the roster did with youth, inexperience and injuries. Hence the "walkon" getting quite a bit of run this year.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, BestintheWest said:

 

We have guys who have been here for 3 years...the ones you question why they are. That helps APR. There you go?

Again, what 3rd walkon? I already addressed the other 2 (which was mostly only 1...Juiston,Dembele and Diong all hurt forced Coleman in), but keep calling them walkons. There is a reason they get run over the others. Also

I never argued the roster is saddled...you are. I think it relies too much on youth, inexperience and inferior senior talent. I don't think Menzies was saddled. He chose this team. The Juiston injury really killed this team.

Clyburn made strides, but he's not a top senior. Robotham was what he is. An Akron transfer...not NC State.

Diong, JTT, Ntambwe, Hardy, Hamilton, Woodbury...young. Inexperienced. High upsides, but not there.

Juiston injured.

I just named 9 players. We don't go deeper than that. Those bottom 3 didn't hurt this season. The entire makeup of the roster did with youth, inexperience and injuries. Hence the "walkon" getting quite a bit of run this year.

 

 

Now youre just being disingenuous. You named 9 players, but then couched your statement by saying, "not there yet."

That is why it was important to sign JC and Transfer players who were ready. So you dont end up with 11 and 17 win seasons. Youre arguing against your own points once again.

Blair, Coleman and Robotham are all walk ons. Blair and Noah started multiple games this year, but yeah, theres plenty of talent on the roster.

All of the 3 year players have just been holding up the bench, save for Clyburn. USU's 3 year guys are their best players and one of them is MWC POY. Not even close to the same ball park.

If you sign more talent with scholarships, you dont end up with walkons playing due to 1 significant injury. 

Dembele is a part of those bad player signings I mentioned. 


You keep saying that the team can just let every player go pre-grad, and that is not true because of APR. It doesnt matter how long theyve been in your program so long as they graduate. 

Seems like you dont know as much about APR as you pretend, but thats not a shock based on this back and forth.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×