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#4 SDSU VS #5 UNLV - MWC Tournament

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2 minutes ago, BestintheWest said:

It's crazy how people outside the box need to come in and check these people...

In all fairness, I used to spend more time (and have more fun) lurking on RebelNet than I ever did posting on AMesa.

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1 minute ago, TheSanDiegan said:

Muss has assembled a team based on transfers. Let's see how well they transition past this year's senior transfer 3-year apogee before we anoint Reno as a "program."

Furthermore, I honestly would be surprised if Muss is still in Reno next season. He knows how far this "program" will take a step back next year and he's too smart to not commoditize on his success before it retraces in value when they lose 90+% of their scoring and PT.

"But craig smith rebuilt Utah State in 1 year"

He rebuilt juniors and seniors...3-4 year MWC guys and made them good again! Lmao

Hutson rebuilt Fresno too..

Deshon Taylor was trash. Grimes. Top 25 experienced team in country.

 

 

COACHING

 

 

Dude these people are the dumbest of all dumb. Comparing coaches taking over seniors and junior laden program to menzies who took over 2 bench players...

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55 minutes ago, Cheek Patch said:

Utah states coach seemed to be able to turn things around right away, and they may be a younger team than us

They are not a younger team. They have 5 players that have been in the program for 3 years including Merrill and Brito. They have another 3 or 4 that have been in the program for 2. 

USU has had fantastic continuity with their roster. The new coach simply plugged in an unheard of hidden gem of a freshman center and it was off to the races. 

USU went 17-17 and 8-10 in the MWC last year. Its the exact same model UNLV is on right now. 

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2 minutes ago, TheSanDiegan said:

That was the squad with that 14-foot tall Indian dude. Dude's low post game was Sikkhhhhhhhh.

Yeaaaah man he was outta shape but it never mattered lol... and they had the shorty who wasn’t scared to shoot. That team was good for covering that year.

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1 minute ago, qwelish said:

They are not a younger team. They have 5 players that have been in the program for 3 years including their Merrill and Brito. They have another 3 or 4 that have been in the program for 2. 

USU has had fantastic continuity with their roster. The new coach simply plugged in an unheard of hidden gem of a freshman center and it was off to the races. 

USU went 17-17 and 8-10 in the MWC last year. Its the exact same model UNLV is on right now. 

Wait until you see Boise next year...

 

Jessup and Alston both upperclassman. I have $1000 right now to anyone that wants to bet me Boise gets past 20 wins and 10 MWC wins...

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Just now, BestintheWest said:

Wait until you see Boise next year...

 

Jessup and Alston both upperclassman. I have $1000 right now to anyone that wants to bet me Boise gets past 20 wins and 10 MWC wins...

They have two transfers that will be very good in the MWC. They had 3, but Bereal got kicked off the team. 

There are a lot of bad arguments being made with no basis right now.

One argument that is legit, though, is the CHOICE MM made to build only through HS players. 

Houston, Buffalo, Texas Tech and reno all built through transfers and JUCO. Houston has 5 JUCO players all contributing. UNLV and Tark also built that way.

Building through HS is not an excuse to lose. MM made poor choices saddling the end of the roster with so much dead weight that it makes the team less competitive. 

I think MM can get it done, but at this pace there will not be an NCAA tournament until year 5. With an ultimatum, unless he makes major changes to his philosophy, he will not get it done and will be fired to end year 4. 

The funny thing is this teams two best players Juiston and Clyburn were JUCO transfers. Why would he not stack the team to win first and then slowly add HS players?

The lack of urgency, taking 5 years to maybe build a winner and sticking to a weird philosophy smacks of complacency and a lack of urgency. 

THIS is why people are pissed. Theyre just not articulating it well. 

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2 minutes ago, qwelish said:

They have two transfers that will be very good in the MWC. They had 3, but Bereal got kicked off the team. 

There are a lot of bad arguments being made with no basis right now.

One argument that is legit, though, is the CHOICE MM made to build only through HS players. 

Houston, Buffalo, Texas Tech and reno all built through transfers and JUCO. Houston has 5 JUCO players all contributing. UNLV and Tark also built that way.

Building through HS is not an excuse to lose. MM made poor choices saddling the end of the roster with so much dead weight that it makes the team less competitive. 

I think MM can get it done, but at this pace there will not be an NCAA tournament until year 5. With an ultimatum, unless he makes major changes to his philosophy, he will not get it done and will be fired to end year 4. 

The funny thing is this teams two best players Juiston and Clyburn were JUCO transfers. Why would he not stack the team to win first and then slowly add HS players?

The lack of urgency, taking 5 years to maybe build a winner and sticking to a weird philosophy smacks of complacency and a lack of urgency. 

THIS is why people are pissed. Theyre just not articulating it well. 

This is why you're pissed. Not all.

And as I've stated before I respect this reason. It at least makes some sense.

Menzies may have not realized how nutty our fan base is. Still wearing 1990 shirts.jackets and playing Championship highlights in our pregame intros. He thought he had a 5 year plan going not realizing by year 3 half the Dave Rice hold his nuts crew would be out there loud and proud going after his job.

 

I disagree. I think the teams potential and ceiling is much higher than this seasons. We probably do see Menzies make some changes. He wasn't in this boat last offseason. If he is given an ultimatum....it's best for all. He gets to work with urgency..and if it doesn't work he gets fired and we're in exact same position.

I think a few players move on. Definitely Beck. Possibly others like Coupet, Georgie and Green.

Who knows what transfer market brings.

Chase Jeter? Comes home?

Chase Jeter alongside Juiston? Wouldn't that basically be like McCoy and Juiston 2.0?

 

Lots can happen.

 

 

 

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Just now, BestintheWest said:

This is why you're pissed. Not all.

 

What makes you think im pissed? Im not.

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10 minutes ago, BestintheWest said:

I disagree. I think the teams potential and ceiling is much higher than this seasons. We probably do see Menzies make some changes

Lots could happen, true. But MM could have stacked the roster with transfers and JC guys and not bad freshmen who contribute zero. 

If you believe the ceiling and potential are much higher, dont be intentionally vague. Please tell us what you think so I can reflect back to these posts next season.

NCAA tournament next year? I said 17-21 wins, so are you saying you expect more than 21 wins? Runaway 1st place in the MWC? Ethan and JPL are better on day one than Noah and Clyburn as seniors? 

It seems like you say I disagree just to be disagreeable. 

Be specific. 

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8 minutes ago, qwelish said:

What makes you think im pissed? Im not.

Well you said this is why people are pissed...

I just don't see that argument being made by them. It's "he can't coach"

They aren't critical thinkers. Anyone who saw Rice and then saw when Menzies took over realized he can at least coach. He's not flawless, but he can coach.

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2 minutes ago, BestintheWest said:

Well you said this is why people are pissed...

I just don't see that argument being made by them. It's "he can't coach"

They aren't critical thinkers. Anyone who saw Rice and then saw when Menzies took over realized he can at least coach. He's not flawless, but he can coach.

That was my point when I said they arent articulating their gripes very well. 

I agree that he can coach. I am displeased with his recruiting and philosophies on roster construction and playing time. But I see the coaching too.

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And of course, if the teams roster changes by adding significant player(s), the potential and ceiling can be lifted. 

Im talking about with the roster as constructed. 

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3 minutes ago, qwelish said:

Lots could happen, true. But MM could have stacked the roster with transfers and JC guys and not bad freshmen who contribute zero. 

If you believe the ceiling and potential are much higher, dont be intentionally vague. Please tell us what you think so I can reflect back to these posts next season.

NCAA tournament next year? I said 17-21 wins, so are you saying you expect more than 21 wins? Ethan and JPL are better on day one than Noah and Clyburn as seniors? 

It seems like you say I disagree just to be disagreeable. 

Be specific. 

Who are the "bad" freshmen? We have 4 scholarship freshmen. All 4 got mins. Ntawmbwe started. Hamilton and JTT played in every game. Woodbury in 22 games...most of rest he was injured.

 

JTT:  Per 40 mins he averages a double-double. He has as many offensive boards as he does defensive boards. He's huge. He has potential for post player. He finishes at 49%. Menzies has a history of developing post players. One year ago Juiston/McCoy were one of the best scoring/rebounding duos in the country.

Hamilton: Didn't get much run this year. A lot of the time he looked like he wanted to do too much, but was scared to. He's a 4-star for a reason though and we've seen the flashes from the kid. He can dribble and drive. He can take a player 1 on 1. He has a solid shot. He just has to get it flowing. Am I crazy to think he takes a significant bump year 2? The minutes just weren't there for him this year, but he still got solid experience.

Woodbury: Not much to show this season. Started off injured and never really broke playing time. This is the type of kid that will take 2 to 3 years to shine, but if he didn't go to UNLV he'd be at Utah State or  Wyoming dropping 30 on us next season. He is underrated athetic and he has scoring ability. Once his confidence goes up he will really shine. The kid isn't afraid to get at it.

Ntambwe: The most confident raw dude we have. He blew my mind against Illinois. We were out of it. Down double-digits. No fluidity at all. This kid comes out of nowhere. Single handedly puts team on back and cuts lead down. It was one of the most impressive things I've seen. He sucked the air out of the arena. People around me were raving about this dude...while I said..and "he's only a freshman!" He's confident. Not scared of anything. And a balllller. Still super raw and out of control at times, but a balller.

Of course he was inconsistent. He's a freshman. It took him until Illinois to really show up. Then at times foul trouble put him out of game.

Heres some MWC numbers tho. Averaged 13 and 5. Shot 38% from 3. #23 in Offensive rating. 19 in Offensive Reb. 14 in Def Reb. ...3rd in Turnover rate...25 in block %. 13th in Fouls drawn. 15th in FT rate. Top 20 in FT% and 3pt%.

He has the tools, motor and drive to get better too.

 

 

Juiston speaks for himself. 15 and 10 last season. 11 and 9 in 8 games this year. Best PPP defensive player. Best overall rebounder on a great rebounding team. 6th in shooting efficiency.

Diong made a huge leap year 2. That injury halted some, but year 3 should be some more improvement. He's top 10 in Offensive and Defensive rebounding %, 5th in block % and 8th in 2pFG %.

His Offensive rating went up from 94 to 107. He is fouling less per 40 mins and his FG% went up 5 points. He still has a lot to learn, but he still has 2 years here to produce. Huge upside.

 

Hardy: Biggest leap of all. Confidence has taken over. His pick and roll game is nearly unstoppable.

Averaged 14/4/4 in conference as a sophomore. Shooting 37% from 3. 7th in the conference in Assist rate...not even as main ball handler. He's gotten statistically better everywhere but the free throw line. This kid has a chance to be something really special too.

Anthony Marshall was a 10/4/4 guy his sophomore year. Shooting nothing like Hardy is.

 

 

Best player on team comes back. 3 starters come back with that best player. Role players continue to improve. Possible incoming transfers and freshmen impact. Whats so wild about thinking this team could compete at top of MWC. I'd put them right behind USU and right next to Boise and SDSU.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, BestintheWest said:

Who are the "bad" freshmen? We have 4 scholarship freshmen. All 4 got mins. Ntawmbwe started. Hamilton and JTT played in every game. Woodbury in 22 games...most of rest he was injured.

 

From the 1st season. 

Djordie, Coupet, Dembele

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1 minute ago, qwelish said:

From the 1st season. 

Djordie, Coupet, Dembele

Dude....Since when have people counted year 1.

I could have used up a scholly for year 1. He had to add guys.

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Just now, BestintheWest said:

Dude....Since when have people counted year 1.

I could have used up a scholly for year 1. He had to add guys.

It has nothing to do with the first season. It has to do with signing bad 4 year players instead of JC or transfers. 

You are totally missing my point. Go back and reread what I stated. 

Its about saddling the roster for this many years. It was poor planning and a rigid philosophy that has hurt on court production.

There is no debate on this.

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11 minutes ago, BestintheWest said:

Who are the "bad" freshmen? We have 4 scholarship freshmen. All 4 got mins. Ntawmbwe started. Hamilton and JTT played in every game. Woodbury in 22 games...most of rest he was injured.

 

JTT:  Per 40 mins he averages a double-double. He has as many offensive boards as he does defensive boards. He's huge. He has potential for post player. He finishes at 49%. Menzies has a history of developing post players. One year ago Juiston/McCoy were one of the best scoring/rebounding duos in the country.

Hamilton: Didn't get much run this year. A lot of the time he looked like he wanted to do too much, but was scared to. He's a 4-star for a reason though and we've seen the flashes from the kid. He can dribble and drive. He can take a player 1 on 1. He has a solid shot. He just has to get it flowing. Am I crazy to think he takes a significant bump year 2? The minutes just weren't there for him this year, but he still got solid experience.

Woodbury: Not much to show this season. Started off injured and never really broke playing time. This is the type of kid that will take 2 to 3 years to shine, but if he didn't go to UNLV he'd be at Utah State or  Wyoming dropping 30 on us next season. He is underrated athetic and he has scoring ability. Once his confidence goes up he will really shine. The kid isn't afraid to get at it.

Ntambwe: The most confident raw dude we have. He blew my mind against Illinois. We were out of it. Down double-digits. No fluidity at all. This kid comes out of nowhere. Single handedly puts team on back and cuts lead down. It was one of the most impressive things I've seen. He sucked the air out of the arena. People around me were raving about this dude...while I said..and "he's only a freshman!" He's confident. Not scared of anything. And a balllller. Still super raw and out of control at times, but a balller.

Of course he was inconsistent. He's a freshman. It took him until Illinois to really show up. Then at times foul trouble put him out of game.

Heres some MWC numbers tho. Averaged 13 and 5. Shot 38% from 3. #23 in Offensive rating. 19 in Offensive Reb. 14 in Def Reb. ...3rd in Turnover rate...25 in block %. 13th in Fouls drawn. 15th in FT rate. Top 20 in FT% and 3pt%.

He has the tools, motor and drive to get better too.

 

 

Juiston speaks for himself. 15 and 10 last season. 11 and 9 in 8 games this year. Best PPP defensive player. Best overall rebounder on a great rebounding team. 6th in shooting efficiency.

Diong made a huge leap year 2. That injury halted some, but year 3 should be some more improvement. He's top 10 in Offensive and Defensive rebounding %, 5th in block % and 8th in 2pFG %.

His Offensive rating went up from 94 to 107. He is fouling less per 40 mins and his FG% went up 5 points. He still has a lot to learn, but he still has 2 years here to produce. Huge upside.

 

Hardy: Biggest leap of all. Confidence has taken over. His pick and roll game is nearly unstoppable.

Averaged 14/4/4 in conference as a sophomore. Shooting 37% from 3. 7th in the conference in Assist rate...not even as main ball handler. He's gotten statistically better everywhere but the free throw line. This kid has a chance to be something really special too.

Anthony Marshall was a 10/4/4 guy his sophomore year. Shooting nothing like Hardy is.

 

 

Best player on team comes back. 3 starters come back with that best player. Role players continue to improve. Possible incoming transfers and freshmen impact. Whats so wild about thinking this team could compete at top of MWC. I'd put them right behind USU and right next to Boise and SDSU.

 

 

 

I think USU may be a one hit wonder. Timing was well

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6 minutes ago, BestintheWest said:

Dude....Since when have people counted year 1.

I could have used up a scholly for year 1. He had to add guys.

Add guys to park on the bench for a few years? What kind of roster management is that? 

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2 minutes ago, qwelish said:

It has nothing to do with the first season. It has to do with signing bad 4 year players instead of JC or transfers. 

You are totally missing my point. Go back and reread what I stated. 

Its about saddling the roster for this many years. It was poor planning and a rigid philosophy that has hurt on court production.

There is no debate on this.

 

Except he did sign JC players and transfers his 1st season, bud.

He had 3 JC players and 2 transfers. 3 "returners" and 5 freshman...

 

I'm not missing the point. You can't have a loaded roster of 4-star players. What good does it do? Those 3 freshmen aren't holding the program back.

The thing that held the program back was recruiting for year 1.

Players from year 1 to year 2....Mooring/Clyburn/Dembele

Players year 2 to year 3....Juiston, Clyburn, Beck, Hardy, Diong.

Juiston got injured. Beck became diva with no work ethic.

 

The roster has never been saddled. We lost 8 players after year 1. 4 players after year 2.

 

The problem has always been year 1. It +++++ed the roster and recruiting, but never locked up guys and holding spots that could be taken by superior players.

Clyburn is still a product of year 1. You think MM recruits him in the exact same state we are in now if Clyburn was in JC now??? LOL +++++ no.

 

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8 minutes ago, Rosegreen said:

Add guys to park on the bench for a few years? What kind of roster management is that? 

Muss plays 6 players.

 

Is he not the worlds greatest coach according some here? Or he just has 6 good players?

 

He has a 5-star McDonalds AA on his roster who barely plays....and you think 3 dudes are holding us back as a program because they hold a scholly.

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