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bluerules009

This is going to kill online universities and liberal arts colleges

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23 minutes ago, bornontheblue said:

I have nothing against Liberal Arts, its just that their degrees are rarely worth $60,000. 

Neither is a degree in education - but we still need teachers.

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2 minutes ago, bsu_alum9 said:

Neither is a degree in education - but we still need teachers.

Anybody who borrows $60K to get a degree in education is an idiot. Go to a public in state university, live with your parents, get a summer job, do something but by God don't borrow $60,000 to get a job that pay $37,000 a year. 

Now it would make sense to borrow $60,000 to get a degree in Chemical Engineering. One could also argue its ok to borrow $60K to get a degree in accounting and earn a CPA license, or get a degree in Finance, or Pharmacy. Those fields can generate enough income to repay the loan.

 

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23 minutes ago, bornontheblue said:

Anybody who borrows $60K to get a degree in education is an idiot. Go to a public in state university, live with your parents, get a summer job, do something but by God don't borrow $60,000 to get a job that pay $37,000 a year. 

Living at home only works for those that live in proximity to a college campus.

If not - $7500 per year tuition (Boise State as an example). Work 20-30 hours per week to pay for living expenses ($1000/mo).  That puts you right about average - with $30,000 in student loan debt.  Many can't handle the working/school combo and drop out or take out even more loans to cover living expenses.  

 

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2 hours ago, 1066 said:

This is amongst the most dull-witted and in sapient statements I have ever read or heard. The great majority of inventors, original thinkers and national leaders before the early 20th century had a liberal arts education or no university education at all. Tesla, Edison, Bell, Lock, Kepler, Franklin and thousands of others are in this category. A technical or scientific education was viewed as job training not actual education at the time. While I believe that technical and scientific education is in fact of value, and a compliment to skilled labor today it is not what the writer of this post thinks it is. How appropriate that a graduate of a University which made it's way in it's home state by teaching locals how to drive a truck holds such views. By the way the OP stated that "You can't learn biology or any science solely from a book.", however this is exactly what Darwin did.

In case you think I am going too far back for your comprehension, they call that history, let me add a few names from recent history. 

The Wright Brothers, Larry Ellison, Paul Allen, Mike Dell, Steve Jobs. None of these had a science education or in fact any kind of degree. Do you see the light as yet?

 

 . . (1452 – 1519), mathematician, engineer, anatomist, geologist, botanist, inventor, artist.

They all had a math, physics and science background.  You don't have to have a degree to get that, it is just the normal way most of us normal people can get there.   Paul Allen or those guys on your list are going to be a success where ever he goes.

You, @youngrebelfan40 and most people without an education won't even make good ditch diggers.

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22 hours ago, 1066 said:

This is amongst the most dull-witted and in sapient statements I have ever read or heard. The great majority of inventors, original thinkers and national leaders before the early 20th century had a liberal arts education or no university education at all. Tesla, Edison, Bell, Lock, Kepler, Franklin and thousands of others are in this category. A technical or scientific education was viewed as job training not actual education at the time. While I believe that technical and scientific education is in fact of value, and a compliment to skilled labor today it is not what the writer of this post thinks it is. How appropriate that a graduate of a University which made it's way in it's home state by teaching locals how to drive a truck holds such views. By the way the OP stated that "You can't learn biology or any science solely from a book.", however this is exactly what Darwin did.

In case you think I am going too far back for your comprehension, they call that history, let me add a few names from recent history. 

The Wright Brothers, Larry Ellison, Paul Allen, Mike Dell, Steve Jobs. None of these had a science education or in fact any kind of degree. Do you see the light as yet?

 

 . . (1452 – 1519), mathematician, engineer, anatomist, geologist, botanist, inventor, artist.

So your argument is that all these folks succeeded because of their liberal arts educations?

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50 minutes ago, bornontheblue said:

Anybody who borrows $60K to get a degree in education is an idiot. Go to a public in state university, live with your parents, get a summer job, do something but by God don't borrow $60,000 to get a job that pay $37,000 a year. 

Now it would make sense to borrow $60,000 to get a degree in Chemical Engineering. One could also argue its ok to borrow $60K to get a degree in accounting and earn a CPA license, or get a degree in Finance, or Pharmacy. Those fields can generate enough income to repay the loan.

 

Just get a pharmacy degree that takes 3 more years? Just get an accounting degree, as if some states don't have higher starting salaries for teachers than accountants?

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22 minutes ago, bsu_alum9 said:

Living at home only works for those that live in proximity to a college campus.

If not - $7500 per year tuition (Boise State as an example). Work 20-30 hours per week to pay for living expenses ($1000/mo).  That puts you right about average - with $30,000 in student loan debt.  Many can't handle the working/school combo and drop out or take out even more loans to cover living expenses.  

That's pretty much what I did and as long as I stayed in school and took at least 12 units per semester, my folks were willing to subsidize half my rent while school was in session. As a result, I never needed to take out a student loan.

It was a real grind at times and a couple good friends dropped out of community college after a year to work for Delta Airlines as one of those guys who signal the planes on the tarmac and a service adviser for a big Ford dealership, respectively. They were able to drive nice cars and share a nice apartment while I drove a piece of junk and lived in a dump. Ultimately, however, they wound up earning a fraction of what my income has been after getting my master's degree and starting my consulting business.

Become a pharmacist? No thanks. That has to be the most boring professional job known to man plus you don't sit down for even one minute and just how much discretion do you have? Maybe I'm naive but that job seems to be nothing more than a glorified clerk.

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2 hours ago, bornontheblue said:

I agree with this that online schools  and so called colleges based out of strip malls should bear some of the financial risk for peddling loans to people whose degrees will never generate an income to pay it back. 

We also should not be letting students to get $60,000 in debt to get degrees in Oppressed Women's Studies or other useless Liberal Arts degrees. 

I have nothing against Liberal Arts, its just that their degrees are rarely worth $60,000. 

I am offended.  My degree from Vanderbilt in underwater fire prevention is well worth the 120k in loans.  Also without liberal arts degrees we have no sports teams,  no one will watch a football team full of physics majors.

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2 hours ago, bornontheblue said:

Anybody who borrows $60K to get a degree in education is an idiot. Go to a public in state university, live with your parents, get a summer job, do something but by God don't borrow $60,000 to get a job that pay $37,000 a year. 

Now it would make sense to borrow $60,000 to get a degree in Chemical Engineering. One could also argue its ok to borrow $60K to get a degree in accounting and earn a CPA license, or get a degree in Finance, or Pharmacy. Those fields can generate enough income to repay the loan.

 

My school charges about $3,300/semester --- and a semester is six months, for an "all you can pass" slate of college classes. None of them are particularly easy, but if you have experience in the fields then you might be able to pass them faster due to your experience and knowledge. I'm graduating this year, in my fourth semester --- which came along with my previous college experience, and my total liability is going to be about $12,000, and I'm paying for it out of pocket. Tools would argue that my college degree won't be worth anything, when in actuality it combined with my nearly two decades of industry experience will set me apart fro candidates for jobs at a higher level than my current senior level position. 

Meanwhile I know people that have spent tens of thousands of dollars on the types of degrees that tools and others claim are what make someone worthy of being hired, and they'd be far more in debt, and have far less experience than someone like me. Then again, tools supposedly hires people to kill mosquitoes, and that's far beneath me anyway. 

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19 minutes ago, retrofade said:

My school charges about $3,300/semester --- and a semester is six months, for an "all you can pass" slate of college classes. None of them are particularly easy, but if you have experience in the fields then you might be able to pass them faster due to your experience and knowledge. I'm graduating this year, in my fourth semester --- which came along with my previous college experience, and my total liability is going to be about $12,000, and I'm paying for it out of pocket. Tools would argue that my college degree won't be worth anything, when in actuality it combined with my nearly two decades of industry experience will set me apart fro candidates for jobs at a higher level than my current senior level position. 

Meanwhile I know people that have spent tens of thousands of dollars on the types of degrees that tools and others claim are what make someone worthy of being hired, and they'd be far more in debt, and have far less experience than someone like me. Then again, tools supposedly hires people to kill mosquitoes, and that's far beneath me anyway. 

Experience as a call center phone guy helping old ladies figure out their new toaster doesn't count for much no matter how much of it you have.

 

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9 hours ago, retrofade said:

My school charges about $3,300/semester --- and a semester is six months, for an "all you can pass" slate of college classes. None of them are particularly easy, but if you have experience in the fields then you might be able to pass them faster due to your experience and knowledge. I'm graduating this year, in my fourth semester --- which came along with my previous college experience, and my total liability is going to be about $12,000, and I'm paying for it out of pocket. Tools would argue that my college degree won't be worth anything, when in actuality it combined with my nearly two decades of industry experience will set me apart fro candidates for jobs at a higher level than my current senior level position. 

Meanwhile I know people that have spent tens of thousands of dollars on the types of degrees that tools and others claim are what make someone worthy of being hired, and they'd be far more in debt, and have far less experience than someone like me. Then again, tools supposedly hires people to kill mosquitoes, and that's far beneath me anyway. 

Western Governors University?

I got my Bachelors and about to have my Master's in IT Management and will have a total of 18k in loans after 3 years,

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14 minutes ago, TGIFaanes said:

Western Governors University?

I got my Bachelors and about to have my Master's in IT Management and will have a total of 18k in loans after 3 years,

Yep. I'm finishing off my capstone paper for my BSIT right now, and then will probably do the MSITM program next.

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6 minutes ago, retrofade said:

Yep. I'm finishing off my capstone paper for my BSIT right now, and then will probably do the MSITM program next.

Ya I got the BSIT Security before they renamed it to Network Ops and Security. I like that name better but I didn't want to get the CCDA that they added and only had 2 classes left at the time. MSITM so far is good. I'm 4/10 so far. The only Cert in the MSITM is the CAPM for project management and I'm doing that next. Depending on how fast I get though it will depend if I finish the program by July or not. 7 of the classes is a performance assessment and no objective assessment.

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3 minutes ago, TGIFaanes said:

Ya I got the BSIT Security before they renamed it to Network Ops and Security. I like that name better but I didn't want to get the CCDA that they added and only had 2 classes left at the time. MSITM so far is good. I'm 4/10 so far. The only Cert in the MSITM is the CAPM for project management and I'm doing that next. Depending on how fast I get though it will depend if I finish the program by July or not. 7 of the classes is a performance assessment and no objective assessment.

Part of why I'm thinking about doing the MSITM is because I already have my CAPM, so it's one less class I have to take. I don't blame you for not wanting to take the CCDA... Cisco certs are terrible. 

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3 minutes ago, retrofade said:

Part of why I'm thinking about doing the MSITM is because I already have my CAPM, so it's one less class I have to take. I don't blame you for not wanting to take the CCDA... Cisco certs are terrible. 

Lol I'm a Data Center Technician and trying to become a Network Engineer. I choose that program because I had a CCNA already and that knocked easily 9 months worth of work right there. The CCNA Security sucked.

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39 minutes ago, retrofade said:

Part of why I'm thinking about doing the MSITM is because I already have my CAPM, so it's one less class I have to take. I don't blame you for not wanting to take the CCDA... Cisco certs are terrible. 

I disagree about cisco certs.  Those basically launched my career.  Although I have never been a big fan of their design track.

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34 minutes ago, TGIFaanes said:

Lol I'm a Data Center Technician and trying to become a Network Engineer. I choose that program because I had a CCNA already and that knocked easily 9 months worth of work right there. The CCNA Security sucked.

Welcome, fellow cisco brethren.  I first achieved my NA almost 20 years ago, with my NP a couple years later.  IE written was finished 4 years after that.  Then I decided I wanted to be management and stopped putting myself through the hell of certification tests.  

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3 minutes ago, nashvillepoke said:

I disagree that cisco certs.  Those basically launched my career.  Although I have never been a big fan of their design track.

Let me rephrase... Cisco Certs are terrible for me. I have a number of them, but I hated getting them. I know a few people who have been broken by even CCNA/S. They're great for launching careers for sure, I've just never been a fan of them. That reminds me, it's about time to start prepping to renew a couple, ugh. I'm currently prepping for my PMP though, which is 11ty billion times worse. 

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5 hours ago, nashvillepoke said:

Welcome, fellow cisco brethren.  I first achieved my NA almost 20 years ago, with my NP a couple years later.  IE written was finished 4 years after that.  Then I decided I wanted to be management and stopped putting myself through the hell of certification tests.  

Thanks, I got my CCNA back in 2014 and renewed 18 months ago with CCNA /S because WGU locked me into it and wanted to CCNA DC instead. I got a couple of months till I got to start studying again and been back forth between CCNA DC or CCNP next.

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On 3/12/2019 at 8:42 PM, retrofade said:

Why are "liberal arts" degrees worthless in your estimation?

Perhaps not worthless....maybe worth 10% of a technical or medical arts degree.  The credit hours paid should reflect this. 

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